DPP: In the beginning...

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

Good morning, Shipper Nation.  Welcome to day two of my reign of terror the land of rainbows and kittens.  I have one question for you:


How did those crazy kids meet?

Disregard the lame-ass flashbacks in Daybreak for a moment.  I know that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU has their own version in their head of how Kara and Lee met.  So guess what, peeps?  I want to hear it.
 
Was it funny? Angsty? Silly? Did sparks fly? Was it the traditional rom-com meetcute or a full-out confrontational exchange? Did the earth move and angles weep?  Did they know each other as kids?  Meet at the Academy?  Attend band camp together?


Whatever it is, I need to know, so spill, m'kay?  *g*

NOTE:  For purposes of this discussion, I'm asking you to forget about the DB flashbacks and go back and remember what your theory was before we were bombarded with all that.  (Not just because of the controversial table scene but because the meeting and subsequent early interactions of K/L deserve their OWN FRAKKING MINISERIES-- NOT FIVE MINUTES IN A HASTILY-WRITTEN FINALE.) 

Comments

[thrace-adama.livejournal.com]

The way they are in Claira's "Stupid Thing Last Night" and "Artemis Rising" and in Brynnmck's "Detour" is probably my favorite take on their early relationship. I love the idea that they were BFFs in and out of denial of all the UST everyone else saw between them.

But in terms of what I thought was closest to canon (at least before the finale), the way they met in "Decline and Fall" (after Kara and Zak had been dating for a while already) rang truest to me.

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

Remind me of how they met in Decline and Fall....

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

Interesting q. I'm not one who has one version of personal canon and sticks to it. I like to imagine all different sorts of meetings for them (and then write fic about it!) My various first meets:
--Kara almost got into the shower with Lee thinking he was Zak
--Kara and Zak had just started dating and she invited Lee to dance with her at a club and he said no (my first fic! spawned from that line in UB when she says he's been making the same mistake since he met me)
--They met in the simulators at the Academy where Kara blew him up multiple times
--Soon they will meet on the ice!

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

OMG, I LOVE the shower meetup-- did you ever write that? **silly brain can't remember**

I CAN'T WAIT UNTIL THEY MEET ON THE ICE!!!

[cynicalshadows.livejournal.com]

In my head they met at the Academy and were rivals who became friends.

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

Were they the same year? Different year? How did they become friends?

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

I think what I love most of all (and what I adored prior to the DB flashbacks....


... is the fact that their past was unknown. There were all these amazing things you could fill in. Almost any scenario and any genre and any setting would work-- as long as you got the characters right.

There was such freedom and possibility in their beginning, and I really loved that.

[thrace-adama.livejournal.com]

Yes, this.

[cosetteferaud.livejournal.com]

I like very much Daphnaea's take in her fabulous "Simulations". They met while Kara was dating Zak, immediately connected and became friends --not BBF a la Kara/Helo, though. And of course, there always was between them that tension/attraction they both knew existed but couldn't allow themselves to openly acknowledge.

Also, as Heather was saying, given the canon, "Decline and Fall" rings so very true :)

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

I was rereading Simulations yesterday and trying to figure out why it's my favorite fic, when it's hardly the longest or most elaborate pre-mini fic (and I like all the pre-mini fics an awful lot). It really comes down to the scene where she tells him about her mom and they are sitting against the couch and she says "Don't tell Zak. I don't want him to pity me." and he says "I don't pity you." and she says "You're not him." and puts her head on his shoulder and he is quiet for a minute and then says "I know" and THERE IS STEALTHSNUGGLING!! Sniff.

OH! And also the whole Cadet Thrace/Cadet Adama What if? game! Love that!

[amidala-thrace.livejournal.com]

In my own mind, K/L met through Zak, and I thought this long before Daybreak was even a twinkle in RDM's eye. No Academy hijinks or "we knew each other before" - I do occasionally read and enjoy Academy fic, but it's not my personal canon. Don't know why, it just never has been. *shrug*

Kara and Lee were friends first, and there might have been a bit of the love-at-first-sight thing on his part, but he repressed that - our Lee is good at repression! - out of loyalty to Zak. Kara, for her part, found him attractive and probably had a few passing thoughts about what might have happened if she'd met Lee first, but again, her allegiance was first and foremost to her boyfriend/fiancé. (I waffle on whether or not Zak and Kara were engaged when she first met Lee - I tend to fall more on the side of "yes", but I also change my mind a lot. Ask me again tomorrow. ;D) To me, Zak represented for Kara the first relationship in which she was able to truly be herself, and could experience happiness and contentment. She also would not have given that up easily - after all, she did pass him for Basic Flight when he ought to have failed - not for a random one-night stand, and certainly not for Zak's own older brother, whom she probably saw as a bit of a stick-in-the-mud anyway. ;) And yes, I know my interpretation likely runs completely counter to RDM's, but it's one I am most unwilling to concede. :P

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

So... is it safe to say that in your mind, the K/L attraction/love was one that bloomed slowly over the series as opposed to being relized immediately on the front end?

[innibis.livejournal.com]

It feels like I'm the only shipper in town who actively dislikes most supposedly canon compliant pre-mini stories.

I don't have a personal canon in terms of specifics (they met on this day, at that time, in that situation) but I am very married to my pilots pre-mini emotional canon - as you well know, Ms Bee.:) I need the two of them to be in a very specific place for the brig scene in the mini to make any sense at all - for their relationship going forward to make any sense at all.

The big thing for me is that they both loved Zak a lot, Kara met Zak first, and Kara never cheated on him with Lee, even though they both were aware of the attraction between them. There is no way they could have physically betrayed Zak and then come out friends at the end of the world. It makes absolutely no sense in relation to who they are as characters.

[innibis.livejournal.com]

And when I say dislikes, I mean the genre of pre-mini - not the writing or the authors. In case that wasn't clear.

from a WIP that I've been doing for...years?

[ninety6tears.livejournal.com]

Zak was supposed to be there when they met, but it didn’t happen quite right. Kara had not even seen a picture of him yet, so the first she ever saw of his face was the squinting and vaguely bothered expression when he opened the front door of his condominium in his undershirt and sweats, saw this sweating-off-the-afternoon lip-biter looking awkward and ashamed on his undecorated porch. She could guess easily enough that he hadn’t seen a picture of her either, since he clearly had no inkling who the hell she was.

“Hi,” she blurted out with a hand scratching nervously at her head, before he could manage any polite greeting. “Listen, um. I’m a friend of Zak’s?...”

“...Yeah?” Lee Adama cocked an eyebrow with half-attentive anticipation and stepped out of the house. It seemed like the first time his face had wanted to move.

She unlocked her nervous lips, quickly stumbling through the explanation, “Well, he came and borrowed your car so we could go eat, and afterwards he was gonna be kinda late, and I thought since my apartment is on this side of town, I might as well drop him off and drive it back...”

He sighed. “And?”

She grimaced as he seemed to have an idea where this was going. “Okay, I — I nicked it on the mailbox —”

“Oh...frak it.” As he opened his screen door to step out in a tight movement, it took him getting moderately pissed for her to really take in the angle of the jaw, the smoldering restraint in his eyes; she felt a wave of intimidation from him simply for him being worlds away from the animated features of his brother rather than by the slightly angry crook in his demeanor. “Okay, ‘nicked’? As in...”

Kara cringed as he walked off the porch and went far enough down the driveway to get a look. There was a pause, and then he came back looking, at least, not surprised.

He also looked like he’d just figured something out.

“You must be Kara.”

Kara smirked a little, shoving her hands sheepishly into her pockets. “Yeah, that’s me.”

If she didn’t already know how much Zak had — and hadn’t — told Lee, she could have judged from the cynical expression on his face that he understood that she and his brother were something more than friends. Lee sighed and said, “In that case, I better let you off the hook.”

Re: from a WIP that I've been doing for...years?

[rachelindeed.livejournal.com]

This was so wonderful! I love your description of their body language, especially Lee's temper and what it does to animate him. And the final line is pitch perfect.

More, please? Someday? :)

[shah-of-blah.livejournal.com]

Prior to Daybreak, I pretty much worshiped at the altar of claira's "all feeling but this one" because I love it so. But I wasn't too picky. I read and loved all sorts of pre-mini fic, but I did always believe that they met through Zak, and there was some connection but they didn't act on it. Kara's devotion to Zak was/is very important to my own canon.

Personally, I'm not as against the flashbacks as most people seem to be, but that's just me. I like to have my canon in a neat little stack and I've never really mastered the "this is not my canon!" attitude.

[cosetteferaud.livejournal.com]

"All Feeling But This One" is a personal favorite of mine, too (and one of the first K/L fic I ever read, I love it).

And as you, I don't hate the flashbacks as much as other people do. I can even appreciate certain aspects of how K/L first meeting was portrayed. But I guess that's just me and my twisted mind ;P

[nazkey.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I thought the flashbacks were pretty lame too. It seems a bit unrealistic that they didn't meet each other at the Academy at some point. So I'm going with they met there. Lee was probably even more of a tight ass and Kara was more carefree (not having to deal with saving humanity and all that). They probably became friends but the chemistry was there from day one. I love all the AU fic with the two of them and Helo at the Academy.

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

The Academy stories are fun-- and of course it always brings up the question--

If you're Kara, and you met Lee first and you're well, PILOTS, how the hell do you end up with his brother???

Ahh. A delicious and fascinating conundrum. : )

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

Also?

I'm deeply disappointed no one's jumping on the "They met at band camp" wagon.



DEEPLY. DISAPPOINTED.


: p

**pokes with stick**

[stripes13.livejournal.com]

<--------

*shakes head*

I'm not sure you should be poking that one...it might get a bit out of control.

[stripes13.livejournal.com]

So, in the beginning.....

Personally, I think that Zak was he catalyst for them meeting. I do think that they had at least heard of each other while at the academy. By that, I mean that Kara had heard about Apollo and Lee had heard about Starbuck and her antics and when they met was all big brotherly and protective once he learned that Kara and Starbuck were one and the same.

Do I think they were attracted to each other? HELL YES! But I don't think they would have acted on it while Zak was alive. Maybe after he died, but like innibis said, that's a horse of a different color.

[ecstaticdance.livejournal.com]

Do I think they were attracted to each other? HELL YES! But I don't think they would have acted on it while Zak was alive.

Well, yes, of course. But then again, there's a difference between attracted to, and in love with. I've been attracted to a lot of people in my life. I've not been in love with very many at all. It's very easy to walk away from someone you're attracted to. Much harder to walk away from someone you love.

Now, I believe they both loved each other well before that Night On New Caprica. But I also would extend the thought that Kara really was in love with Zak, and probably wouldn't have thought to look at Lee as anything but an object of lust at the point in her life where they met. And I think that is what kept them apart. Because we have Canon!Kara, who is willing to bend rules to get what she wants. I just don't think that she wanted Lee when she had Zak.

[rachelindeed.livejournal.com]

I adore all Academy fic, it's probably my favorite pilots genre, but in my personal canon she met Zak first. They got to know each other through him, so there was always that sense of necessary restraint between them.

I like to think that the three of them hung out together a lot, knew each other for years before the accident. I think they 'got' each other surprisingly quickly ~ she figured out he wasn't just a textbook soldier and he figured out she wasn't just a bad-ass adrenaline junkie very early in their relationship. I think it helped that around Zak they both relaxed and showed a lot of love and humor; he showed them sides of each other that most strangers would have had to dig for years to find.

As for when/how they started falling in love with each other, I like the stories in which Kara realizes how much Lee has shielded Zak from their mother, and understands his anger and damaged qualities, and that she has him to thank for how confident and carefree and joyous his younger brother turned out to be. I think of suffolkgirl's "First Impressions," for example.

Also, I fell in love with Lee because of Bastille Day ~ the moment when he took charge and found an unexpected solution and stood up to *everyone* in order to resolve the situation peacefully without compromising himself or his mission. I would love to think that some less life-and-death version of Bastille Day gave Kara a chance to see those qualities in him before the end of the worlds. I don't know, maybe they had to handle a family crisis (with his mom, maybe?) or maybe he was visiting her at the Academy and something went wrong with one of her flight students. In any case, I want them to automatically take charge and rely on each other and trust each other's judgment and think outside the box and take risks and be responsible for protecting someone else together. And I want Kara to be surprised both by how gutsy Lee turns out to be, and how easily he defers to her strengths. And I want her to surprise herself by following his lead unthinkingly when the situation calls for it. I think maybe they began to realize they loved each other when they recognized their equality - the way they were cut out to handle the worst situations with competence that other loved ones, like Zak, simply lacked.

And, honestly, I think they got a kick out of each others' personalities from day one. Perhaps a few lines from Pride and Prejudice might sum up their teasing opposites-attract rapport:

"Elizabeth's spirits soon rising to playfulness again, she wanted him to account for his having ever fallen in love with her. 'How could you begin?' said she. 'I can comprehend your going on charmingly when you had once made a beginning; but what could set you off in the first place?'
'I cannot fix on the hour, or the spot, or the look, or the words, which laid the foundation. It is too long ago. I was in the middle before I knew that I *had* begun.'
'My beauty you had early withstood, and as for my manners - my behavior to you was at least always bordering on the uncivil...Now be sincere; did you admire me for my impertinence?'
'For the liveliness of your mind, I did.'
'You may as well call it impertinence at once. It was very little less. The fact is, that you were sick of civility, of deference, of officious attention. You were disgusted with the women who were always speaking and looking and thinking for *your* approbation alone. I roused and interested you, because I was so unlike *them.* Had you not been really amiable you would have hated me for it; but in spite of the pains you took to disguise yourself, your feelings were always noble and just, and in your heart you thoroughly despised the persons who so assiduously courted you. There - I have saved you the trouble of accounting for it, and really, all things considered, I begin to think it perfectly reasonable. To be sure, you knew no actual good of me - but nobody thinks of *that* when they fall in love.' "

[ninjamonkey73.livejournal.com]

Ah... The one true Darcy, Colin Firth springs happily to mind. Never could read the book, but that BBC mini is IT!

[ecstaticdance.livejournal.com]

Would you believe I was actually waiting to see what the show would offer? I'm kind of ashamed.

Based on the picture in my icon, and comments made in S1, however, I think I'd have to say I think she probably met Zak first. When she met Lee, it was in the context of revered older brother, and while they probably felt something, the competitiveness would have held the fore, at least initially. Kara gets too much of a kick out of needling Lee, and he would be thinking that he could never put up with someone so damn cocky (hello, pot/kettle, but whatever). I don't think they really got close until after Zak's funeral, and wonder if maybe they'd gone to some military gala together when she got touchy-feely with That Certain Major and landed herself in the brig for the first time. Or maybe she'd gone alone and called him up to bail her out, and that was the actual beginning of the hot/cold that we see in the mini.

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

Ahhh, yes. The major story. I would love to hear some takes on that....

[ninjamonkey73.livejournal.com]

After working it over for the last couple of hours in my back brain and reading everyone's posts to now, I've discovered I have a very specific answer to today's question. SUCH a good question. And what a rabbit hole...

First of all, perhaps I'm hung up on the age difference between Katee and Jamie, but I never thought they were at the Academy togther, although chances are good she knew of him from whatever flying records he may have held until her arrival. ;) And he may have heard of her, as word of his lost records might have filtered back. I'm of the mind that she met Zak when he was her student, and I'll keep the Daybreak flashbacks right up to the double-dog-dare as Lee and Kara's first meeting.

From there to the mini, I'm with the folks that have already said they wouldn't have cheated when Zak was alive, or the day of the funeral (which I think they hadn't seen each other since). I will grant ONE drunken makeout, but the rest is just angst and a little shame and a lot of uncomfortable time spent together for Zak's sake. A lot. And that's a backstory I can wrap my head around. I know a thing or two about being "one of the guys" and spending time in a group with someone who was dating someone else, but had more in common with me.

*cue strains of "Saved The Best For Last"*

"How could you give your love to someone else and share your dreams with me? Sometimes the very thing you're looking for is the one thing you can't see."

Oo! Oo! That's it! The muse awakens! Houston, we have a pre-mini, and silly song-fic at that!

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

SONG FIC!!!!!

I just felt like capslocking that. NO idea why. : D

I like that.

But don't forget the ourmaking. This is very important. VERY. *g*

[owldark.livejournal.com]

I love the myriad of possibilities that come along with the K/L ship! So many things are believable.

I had a few working ideas on how they might have met... mostly (now I'm remembering) revolving around drunkeness.

1. Lee's on his way off an airbase late at night only to find the drunken girl spilled out on his runway, talking crap, smoking a cigar and looking up at the stars. There is much drunkeness, flirting (on Kara's part) and eventually Lee manages to get her off the tarmac, and into bed - his dignity in tact. Later, Zak introduces his girlfriend, and Lee has a WTF moment.

2. Kara's drunk off her nuts over a fight with Zak, at some hot, sweaty club. Helo's there, but he's drunk and crushing on some girl. Kara's acting out, and she cracks onto Lee (who's never met her) who does the gentlemanly thing (of course) and offers to put her in a cab home. Instead, she smacks him and carries on merrily. I didn't think much past that.

3. Something quite a lot like RDM's concept... but much less frakked up, and no pigeons.

Y'know, now I'm going to spend the whole night just thinking about beginnings.

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

Oooooh, so in #1, do they sleep together, or does Lee just put her to bed like a gentlemen? : )

I must admit, I'm quite taken with them meeting in the Zak era but not knowing who the other is at first. Mistaken identities can be so much fun. Deifnitely my personal canon. : )

[thegreenkitty.livejournal.com]

*gasps*

I think I've been foiled by the lovely Ms. Bee, hostess extraordinaire! You said there were kittens in this thread!! I don't see a single kitten anywhere. :P

LOL, now I've about made myself late for dinner tonight chattering on (b/c I still need to go by the meet and greet thread again)! Bee, I don't know how you do it every time, but you can sure throw a party, my dear! mwah!

[thegreenkitty.livejournal.com]

ETA: I think we now need some K/L crack complete with kittens...perhaps kinda like tribbles popping up everywhere.

[eternal-nomad1.livejournal.com]

To be honest, I never thought about it much. But then I read the wonderful "Secrets and Lies" and adopted it as my favorite theory.

http://brokenmnemonic.livejournal.com/ (scroll down to get to that story)

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

I just re-read Secrets and Lies yesterday. Love that story. I wish they'd finished it.

[rdave1.livejournal.com]

Great question!

In my head I always think that they met through Zak. I'm not clear on whether Starbuck was breaking Apollo's records and that's how Apollo heard about Starbuck. It is possible assuming they both went to the Academy. I think they would've an instant connection with other because of their love for flying but never ever would they do anything to hurt Zak. I can see them being good friends with each other, hanging out and such but with that invisible line ever present that they couldn't cross.

The mystery of the pilots past and their initial meeting in canon is one of the reasons I love the pre mini fics. It could go so many different ways.

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

I know! It's what makes pre-mini so fun. Sooooo many possibilities. : )

[coffeesuperhero.livejournal.com]

This is a really good question! Hmm. I don't think I ever really decided. I could see it going in a million different directions, and I like the pre-DB mystery of that. It gives you something to dream about, a space to work in. I think that whether they met independently of Zak or whether he introduced them, whether they're on the ice or in the air or in an Academy classroom or at band camp (oh, Bee *g*), I think there's a definite spark, right at the beginning, a recognition that they've each met a person who will have an incredible amount of influence in both of their lives. Where they go from there, whether they do anything about it or whether they repress and try to ignore it, that depends on the situation (like, if she's with Zak already, I think they both know that BOOM, there's trouble, right here in Caprica City), but I think that sizzle is still there, along with an "Oh, it's you," moment.

(Also, apropos of nothing, in my personal fanon, Kara was so famous at Academy for being awesome that forevermore "to Starbuck" something meant "to kick ass at," as in the phrase, "I'm not worried about passing Basic Flight, I'm gonna Starbuck that shit!")

I think this is all my rambly way of saying YOU CAN'T MAKE ME CHOOSE! NOBODY PUTS coffeesuperhero IN A CORNER! ;)

And now, if you'll excuse me, I think I have to go write crackfic about band camp. *g*

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

I still think Lee should play the tuba.

(Let's face it...FAT!LEE WOULD PLAY THE TUBA!! He would just be channeling his inner fat boy.)

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

Gah! I am so-o-o late to the party!

My working theory is that Zak managed to coerce Kara into attending a family dinner with Adama, Carolanne(?) and the infamous Apollo. I envision the two of them having that exact same moment of realization as in the hallway, but in a crowded restaurant, in front of everyone (not that they'd see). Then the others are talking to them and they don't even hear. They're still shaking hands in that mesmerized OMG way that they did in the mini. Zak or Adama or someone says, AHEM, and they break apart. They spend the whole dinner sneaking peeks and trying to swallow their food. And things go on from there....

Mmmmm. I love family dinners. Ha!

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

OH NICE!

I can't resist a good ole awkward family dinner. : D

[(Anonymous)]

I always liked the meet version of a fic I read a long time ago, don't remember title or author or where I saw it, but Kara and Lee met in public and were instantaneously drawn to each other very very strongly, like electricity they never felt before..they ended up frakking, in an elevator or bathroom or something, and then parted. Like a one night stand but shorter. I mostly remember they were VERY strongly drawn to each other- they could not resist it. And they didn't even find out each others' names. And then later in time, weeks? months? Kara was dating Zak and Zak invited his brother Lee to meet Kara, and when they "met" they each realized it was the stranger from weeks? months? earlier and they realized they were frakked. Help me out here if anyone knows which story I am talking about. I don't think my description did it justice.

But overall I think they met through Zak somehow and definitely Kara met "the wrong brother first" because I am a strong believer that there was instant magnetic extremely powerful attraction when they met and she would not have dated Zak if she had met Lee first.

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

Ooooooh! I remember that fic! I really like that one! DAMMIT, I CAN'T REMEMEBER THE NAME--GAH!

But overall I think they met through Zak somehow and definitely Kara met "the wrong brother first" because I am a strong believer that there was instant magnetic extremely powerful attraction when they met and she would not have dated Zak if she had met Lee first.

I completely and totally agree. : )

[bonita-chica71.livejournal.com]

I personally think Kara met Lee while he was an 'entertainer' at a local ladies night club....where else could he have learned those moves as demonsrated in "Revelations"?? :)

[shah-of-blah.livejournal.com]

I think you might be onto something. And we all know Kara frequents male strip clubs.