Let's bring out the worst...

[damao2010.livejournal.com]

We often talk about pilots’ bests – their best quality, their best scene, their best kisses, hugs, looks and so on.

They are far from perfect, though.

So, what about their worst? What would you say was:

- Lee’s worst flaw?

- Kara’s worst flaw?

- the worst  thing Lee ever did (to Kara, to himself and/or to others)?

- the worst thing Kara ever did (to Lee, to herself and/or to other)?

- Lee’s worst line in the show or his most OOC moment?

- Kara’s worst line in the show or her most OOC moment?

- the worst thing that was ever done to them?

- Kara's and Lee's worst look ever?

- their bestest moment, their most redeemable trait  or action, the one thing about them which makes us forget  all the bad stuff, no matter what (because we love them after all and we must never lose sight of that, right) ?

On a side note, if you still haven't sent your love to that writer you love or if you've come up with a great fic rec, please don't hesitate to do so. ;)

Comments

[word-vomity.livejournal.com]

- Lee’s worst flaw?

His stubborn streak, oh bb just give a little! Just say what you want! Guh!

- Kara’s worst flaw?

Her self-destructiveness, you are worth it girl, I swear you are. *sob*

- the worst thing Lee ever did (to Kara, to himself and/or to others)?

All the times he didn't chase her when she ran away especially when she offers to leave Sam for him. YES FINALLY YES! Oh wait...what? More heartbreak? Of course, what was I thinking.

- the worst thing Kara ever did (to Lee, to herself and/or to other)?

Marrying Sam after their New Caprica night. Also, the worst thing she ever did to herself though, so I'm sad for both of them.

- Lee’s worst line in the show or his most OOC moment?

"I never really knew it until just now" Ummmm...really, Lee? Really?

- Kara’s worst line in the show or her most OOC moment?

"That is really poetic, Lee but you don't need to make that big a deal out of this?" How could you, Kara? He's delicate!

- the worst thing that was ever done to them?

Kara's mother's abuse.
Lee's father's emotional detachment.

- Kara's and Lee's worst look ever?

Kara-Mini-Hair
Lee-Blue V Neck Sweater or Presidential hair

- their bestest moment, their most redeemable trait or action, the one thing about them which makes us forget all the bad stuff, no matter what (because we love them after all and we must never lose sight of that, right) ?

Brig scene in Six of One &/or her return from the dead in He That Believeth

"OK, it's OK. Me too." <-----Best pilots line ever

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

THE BLUE V-NECK SWEATER!!! YES!


Such an ill-fitting travesty. You finally get that man in some casual clothes and you make him wear THAT?

**ALL THE SADFACE**

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

- Lee’s worst line in the show or his most OOC moment?

"I never really knew it until just now" Ummmm...really, Lee? Really?


YES. This (and about a bazillion other reasons) is why I always choose UB over UBEX.

[kballgetlost.livejournal.com]

Can I just agree with everything you said??? Because yes...to all of it!

Especially the worst thing Kara ever did to Lee (and herself) by marrying Sam. The first time I watched the series I was so appalled and it really took me awhile to wrap my head around it. Longer to come to somewhat understand it. Still breaks my heart when I rewatch.

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

Lee’s worst flaw?

It's a two-edged sword but in some ways, I'd say it's his sense of honor/morality. It doesn't see gray and often has no room to give. In some ways the term "brutally principled" is very apt.


the worst thing that was ever done to them?

Oh Kara. I could go on for days. But I think the one that stings most is the attempt to somehow redeem her mother's abuse as being god's will(-- so it's all okay! Huzzah!), swiftly followed by fanning the flames of her religious convictions to the point where she thought that being a mindless sacrifice on the alter of Fate and Destiny was a good thing.

((And that ultimately, all that Leoben kidnapping/brainwashing bullshit was part of the divine plan, because it got her into the correct frame of mind to then go and KILL HERSELF so she could be resurrected as a NEWER, SHINIER, BETTER KARA who could fulfil her divine destiny via magic space music.))

Okay. Obviously, I can't pick just one here.

GAH. All absolutely unforgiveable.


- their bestest moment, their most redeemable trait or action, the one thing about them which makes us forget all the bad stuff, no matter what (because we love them after all and we must never lose sight of that, right) ?

The brig scene has already been mentioned, so I'll just add Islanded. : )

[kag523.livejournal.com]

Oh Kara. I could go on for days. But I think the one that stings most is the attempt to somehow redeem her mother's abuse as being god's will(-- so it's all okay! Huzzah!), swiftly followed by fanning the flames of her religious convictions to the point where she thought that being a mindless sacrifice on the alter of Fate and Destiny was a good thing.

You know I share SO MANY of these feelings. *RAGE* I do wonder at the heavy-handedness of the show. I say this because I watched Tree of Life a couple days ago, and much of it has to do with a young man coming to terms with his father's harsh upbringing of him. Now granted, it isn't Socrata Thrace (but in other ways, it's equally exhausting and awful and the family has a whole OTHER tragedy to deal with too). But it got me thinking that if, at the end of two hours, I could see how a character to get to understand his father - without denying the brutality - then why COULDN'T that have happened over the course of two years? No PTSD and Stockholm syndrome and "God Made Me Do It" craziness needed.

Anyhow. A thought. :)

P.S. I'm not actually reccing Tree of Life - though I did enjoy parts of it. At one point I turned to D and said "Why would someone PAY to feel this way?" LOL So yeah. There's that.

[useyourlove.livejournal.com]

Oh Kara. I could go on for days. But I think the one that stings most is the attempt to somehow redeem her mother's abuse as being god's will(-- so it's all okay! Huzzah!), swiftly followed by fanning the flames of her religious convictions to the point where she thought that being a mindless sacrifice on the alter of Fate and Destiny was a good thing.

((And that ultimately, all that Leoben kidnapping/brainwashing bullshit was part of the divine plan, because it got her into the correct frame of mind to then go and KILL HERSELF so she could be resurrected as a NEWER, SHINIER, BETTER KARA who could fulfil her divine destiny via magic space music.))

THAT IS EXACTLY WHY ALL OF IT BOTHERS ME SO MUCH. It's like "ok, I get that if you come to terms with what your mother did you that it might make you less damaged. But we had to frame it in such a way that it was ok that she hurt you because it prepared you for some mystical SUICIDE crap and God told her to do it? And because you forgive her you are now ready to die???? WHUT?" And the whole Leoben thing... just ugh. I love love love Leoben but I think that they really screwed up those storylines. They were so compelling because they both abused each other so thoroughly and--to begin with--there was no judgment by the narrative on whether either one of them was in the right or the wrong. It was just the way that they were driven to behave and the way that they continued to be drawn together. By the end of the third season it's clear that Kara's treatment of him is framed as wrong and Leoben's treatment of her is framed as ok because he was a Divine Instrument of God and he "truly loved her" and was "trying to help her" and all sorts of other crap that has terrifying implications. JUST UGH. (Sorry, I have many Kara Thrace feels, and a lot of them are "wow wouldn't that have been a great storyline IF THEY HAD DONE IT RIGHT?" This, of course, is what fic is for, and why now when I rewatch I keep extensive notes of what bothers me so I can eventually write a gigantic fix-it and come to terms with this whole debacle.)

[damao2010.livejournal.com]

I'd say it's his sense of honor/morality. It doesn't see gray and often has no room to give.

Hmmm...His sense of honor/morality is one the things I really like about him. As for the "no room to give " bit, I confess that I've heard it before (quite often, really) but it always confuses me because I associate black-vs-white-without-any-grey-shadows-whatsoever thinking with radicals and fundamentalists of any kind, people who are unable to compromise at all and that is not like Lee at all, I guess.

I couldn't agree more with about Kara, though. I think that the religious connotations attributed to the abuse (her mother's and Leoben's) were much worse than the abuse itself.

[wicked-sassy.livejournal.com]

So many things to think about! I'll say that I think Kara's worst line is "Out of the box is where I live." *So* cheesy and not even in a funny way.

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

I'm not a fan of that line either. WAY too on the nose.

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

Katee once said in a video that her least favorite line (or one of them) is one of our favorites: "Want to give me a bath?" ;)

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

Lee’s worst flaw?
Kara’s worst flaw?
Same for both: Emotional cowardice when it came to each other.

The worst thing Lee ever did (to Kara, to himself and/or to others)?
It's a toss up between telling her he wouldn't miss her and that he'd gladly open an airlock for her. Or...no, maybe it's ... that he always waited until she was with someone else to make his move.

The worst thing Kara ever did to Lee and to herself?
In Kara's words: "cheating myself" by marrying Sam out of fear. Also to Lee, telling him "I didn't need you anyway" or "There is no us".

Lee’s worst line in the show or his most OOC moment? When he smiles and tells Kara he's gonna go climb mountains after she tells him she's leaving and her journey's done here. WTF?

- Kara’s worst line in the show or her most OOC moment?
"I hate Lee, I love Lee, I hate Sam, I love Sam." I can't believe Kara was torn with indecision over these men...ever. She made choices very deliberately.

- the worst thing that was ever done to them? The writers giving them no emotional connection in the field at the end before Kara poofed.

- Kara's and Lee's worst look ever? Kara's mini hair, and Lee's finale hair (wig?)

- their bestest moment, their most redeemable trait or action, the one thing about them which makes us forget all the bad stuff, no matter what (because we love them after all and we must never lose sight of that, right)?

They're Kara and Lee. All the rest of it's not worth a damn. ;)

[word-vomity.livejournal.com]

"I hate Lee, I love Lee, I hate Sam, I love Sam." I can't believe Kara was torn with indecision over these men...ever. She made choices very deliberately.

Good one. That made NO SENSE! I wanted to slap some sense into her after that too, Dee. I blame the drugs.

[damao2010.livejournal.com]

I was rather surprised to see how many of your answers are exactly the same as mine. :)

But this:

"I hate Lee, I love Lee, I hate Sam, I love Sam." I can't believe Kara was torn with indecision over these men...ever. She made choices very deliberately.

I COULDN'T AGREE MORE.

probably the craziest choices possible out there

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

- Lee’s worst flaw?

overthinking things.

- Kara’s worst flaw?

acting and then thinking. usually after some ambrosia.

- the worst thing Lee ever did (to Kara, to himself and/or to others)?
I'll go with one that was bad because he didn't do:
he should have beat the heck out of Gaius until he would have found out what all the fuss after Colonial Day was about. a lot of things would have been better.

- the worst thing Kara ever did (to Lee, to herself and/or to other)?

to Lee - "There is no us" - that hurt a lot.

- Lee’s worst line in the show or his most OOC moment?

the space walk.

- Kara’s worst line in the show or her most OOC moment?

the drinking in Scar.

- the worst thing that was ever done to them?

where should I start and where would I end?

- Kara's and Lee's worst look ever?

Lee - since I refuse to acknowledge Fat!Lee I'll go with that damn sweater also

Kara - hmmm... HOG - she looked very strange in that last scene.

- their bestest moment, their most redeemable trait or action, the one thing about them which makes us forget all the bad stuff, no matter what (because we love them after all and we must never lose sight of that, right) ?

Lee- he's Lee. Like I said a while back he is perfectly flawed.
Kara - she's just great, larger than life. if that makes any kind of sense.

Re: probably the craziest choices possible out there

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

Lee - since I refuse to acknowledge Fat!Lee I'll go with that damn sweater also

I refuse to acknowledge fat!Lee too!!! and the majority of season 3 Woot!!!!

**HIGH FIVES**

- Kara’s worst flaw?

acting and then thinking. usually after some ambrosia.

OMG so much truth in this.

[embolalia.livejournal.com]

I think the moment from Kara that I hate the most is the scene where she introduce Sam to Lee. I don't know if it was the way it was written or the way she played it, but the way Kara just giggles while slamming Lee's relationship with Dee WHILE ON SAM'S LAP makes me hate her just a little bit every time I watch it. It's far less excusable than anything in UB in my mind. No amount of ambrosia makes it okay for her to do that.

As for Lee, I think his most OOC moment is probably saying no to her when she finally shows up asking him if he'll leave Dee. I've ranted about this before, and I recognize that it was the writers misusing him for their own purposes, but I can't in a million years imagine Lee turning her down and meaning it.

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

As for Lee, I think his most OOC moment is probably saying no to her when she finally shows up asking him if he'll leave Dee. I've ranted about this before, and I recognize that it was the writers misusing him for their own purposes, but I can't in a million years imagine Lee turning her down and meaning it.

O_o

Uh oh.

**Bee's going down a rabbit hole here**

I'm going to try and defend this one. Even though they beat the crap out of each other in UB, it didn't mean that what Kara did on NuCap was erased. In a way, I see his rejection of her in this scene as the literary bookend to her running off with Sam in the first place. And let's just be clear-- at this point, his trust in her was still shattered. He says as much to her in this scene. And I'm not saying it's right or it's what he should have done, but I don't think it's a dishonest place for the character. No doubt he wants to be with her. No doubt whatsoever. But he's lost his faith. In her, in him, in what they could have been to each other. He wants her but he won't let himself believe in her. And selfishly, I think it was a way to punish her. To withhold what he knew she wanted just because he could (yes, pilots are totally that petty and horrible sometimes).

I'm not saying I like the plotline (B/C OMG IT TOTALLY SUCKED BEYOND BELIEF), but it for those reasons, it never pinged for me as much as I know it did for others. May or may not help, just my thoughts. : )

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

The Sam-Lee intro totally makes me cringe every time I watch. So much cringing. Right up there with the kiss in Home (I know I'm a total weirdo for not loving that kiss but everytime I see it I'm hiding my eyes behind my fingers and all like "Lee, honey no-- she doesn't know what the hell to do with that-- USE YOUR GODDAMN WORDS!!" But again, I'm totally weird on that issue.)

But yes. The cringing. Ack.

[velvety2010.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean. I HATED the intro scene with a passion! I know Kara was trying to make a point, both to herself and Lee, but it was all too much for me. I remember wishing Lee would just walk out.

As for that second scene, I was yelling at my TV when Lee turned down Kara. But I also got why he would be too scared to trust her again. I still would have wanted him to recognize the risk and the possible (in his mind probable) pain that would likely follow and STILL go for it. Because he just had to.

[useyourlove.livejournal.com]

I always felt like she was hanging on to her relationship with Lee to keep her head above water in Season 3. She's clearly off the rails before UB, and she is pretty much our old normal Kara until TABFAYW (I just want to pronounce that now). After that she goes off the rails again. It's probably the crazed shipper in me, but I really do feel like she was relying on him for some kind of normalcy, and the fact that their relationship was clandestine and outside of any kind of societal expectation or norm--and in fact was a type of relationship that would traditional engender disappointment, shame, and generally bad feelings from others--was what made it even more important for her because there were no expectations attached to it. There was just the two of them and no one else's opinions entered into it. I think she may have even reveled in how "wrong" it was, because it would be a disappointment to others and because then she wouldn't have to work to not disappoint them. (I'm not sure that's making sense. In my head, it makes perfect glistening sense.) Anyway, this was relevant when I started writing it but got less so. What I think I was trying to say was Lee was a help to her, but he took that away, and it all went south again. I don't think he realized just how much she needed someone and/or something else to try and get over all her trauma (or how much he was contributing to that trauma, tbh). But hell if she would ever admit to needing anyone or anything. (This argument has flawed logic in my brain for insisting that Kara Thrace rely on "a man" to be "whole" but that's not really how I see it (woe betide me--I disavow the glaring feminist flaw in my own arguments!) I see it more as her needing her best friend, and that best friend not being there for her. It's just that said best friend also happens to be male and her lover and everything else ever to her.)

[damao2010.livejournal.com]

- Lee’s and Kara's worst flaw?
I'll go with Taragel here - emotional cowardice

- the worst thing Lee ever did (to Kara, to himself and/or to others)?

The worst thing he ever did to himself was to deny his heart's desire for so long out of guilt and pride.
The worst thing he did to Kara was to threat to throw her out of an airlock. There was so much hatred there.

- the worst thing Kara ever did (to Lee, to herself and/or to other)?

The worst thing ever did to herself was to believe she was unworthy.
The worst thing she did to Lee was to marry Sam the way she did.

- Lee’s worst line in the show or his most OOC moment?

Killing Phelan in cold blood.

- Kara’s worst line in the show or her most OOC moment?
As for an OOC moment, I'll go with the "I love Lee, I hate Lee, I love Sam, I hate Sam" scene.

But, although it has no impact on the plot whatsoever, I hate her line that for children to reach their full potential, their parents have to die.

- the worst thing that was ever done to them?

Kara's mother's actions ended up damaging both of them.

- Kara's and Lee's worst look ever?

I'll ignore Fat!Lee, so I say the whig hair and Kara's hair in the mini.

- their bestest moment, their most redeemable trait or action, the one thing about them which makes us forget all the bad stuff, no matter what (because we love them after all and we must never lose sight of that, right) ?

The hallway scene. "I'm Lee, you're Kara..." It doesn't get better than that. (Though the brig scene, comes to a close second)