no_takebacks | DPP: Free For All Friday

ninjamonkey73.livejournal.com posting in

no_takebacks

Greetings and salutations, 'shipper nation! This is Amy, known on your internets as

ninjamonkey73, and I'm driving the DPP bus this week. Sit back and enjoy the ride...

Myspace Glitter Graphics - http://www.sparklee.com

What's on your mind, 'shipper nation? Have a gripe about an episode? Are you such a Lee fangirl you want to shout his praises from the nearest mountaintop? Want to try your hand at a comment!fic and need a prompt (go ahead and ask, we'll enable)? Have a neat picspam you want to stare at for a few minutes? Or that gif. You know the one I'm talking about. From EoJ. Yeah, that one. Mmmm...

The world's your proverbial oyster, people! Chat it up!

Current Mood: lazy

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

rachelindeed.livejournal.com

Hhmm, this is an interesting argument. I didn't like the Fat!Lee storyline either, largely because it turned out not to be a storyline at all. But I think the reasons I disliked it were slightly different than yours. I didn't find it fundamentally out of character; and I thought they botched the ending of it more than the beginning.

You are absolutely right that no one looks like Lee unless they have developed long-standing habits of stringent physical conditioning, and you are also right that at other points in the series we see Lee dealing with stress by indulging in particularly harsh and cathartic exertion (such as picking a fight with the biggest guy in the room in UB).

But for many people exercise is tied into their overall daily routines, and if their normal regimen is disrupted by the loss of some unifying structure - like a job, for example - that had previously ordered their time, then that disruption can have a ripple effect. Lee kept himself in fighting trim when he was an up-and-coming young officer in college and in his early career, and then when war broke out and he had to face combat and lead the entire Air Group every day I think he became even more rigorous in the standards he set himself. When he was promoted to command the Pegasus it was initially a very stressful and demanding position, and again they were in the midst of constant life-or-death peril.

But look at what happened to the structure of fleet life after settlement began on New Caprica. Suddenly Lee was in charge of a skeleton crew that did nothing but circle in orbit without anything constructive to do for months on end. Military routine and discipline crashed throughout the fleet, and the constant stress of the previous year was replaced by mind-numbing boredom. He was in a desk job, no longer required to maintain combat readiness (look at his Dad ~ that belly is what happens when Viper jocks move out of their planes and into stagnant peacetime commands). Add in his post-Kara depression and his previously established inclination to self-pity, and voila, it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that he would let his health deteriorate for the sake of some passing comfort.

I think that bifurcation - pushing too hard or going too passive - has always been a part of his character; even in his last scene, he tells Kara that he always imagined that when the stress of the war was over he would "spend the rest of [his] days doing the absolute minimum humanly possible." Of course the other, healthier side of him, the side that relishes challenges and can't resist pushing his personal limits, came to the fore both in the finale and throughout much of the series, but that lurking "let it all go" impulse was always a part of him, too, I think.

My biggest regret about the Fat!Lee thing is, I think, the same as yours, though. Instead of using it as a springboard to tell a story about Lee's depression and private anguish, and his struggle to overcome those obstacles, it was used instead as a substitute for the story itself. As you say, it was as if the writers thought they had done enough to establish Lee's inner world by using this heavy-handed visual cue, and as a result they didn't go any further into Lee's interior life until basically Unfinished Business. They dropped the weight abruptly without showing anything of the emotional or physical struggles that would have entailed for a man who was truly fighting his way out of depression. Their treatment of Lee there was, in a word, shallow. (Apparently there was a 'he and Dee enter the Marines' storyline planned for the beginning of Season Three to explain how he lost the weight and developed a harder, more ruthless attitude toward himself and the military - the only remnant you see of it is in "A Measure of Salvation," I think. I'm personally glad they dropped that idea, though. I didn't want to watch Lee and Dee in boot camp, but I guess it would at least have been a narrative).

Ah, well.

From:

scifishipper.livejournal.com

But look at what happened to the structure of fleet life after settlement began on New Caprica. Suddenly Lee was in charge of a skeleton crew that did nothing but circle in orbit without anything constructive to do for months on end. Military routine and discipline crashed throughout the fleet, and the constant stress of the previous year was replaced by mind-numbing boredom. He was in a desk job, no longer required to maintain combat readiness (look at his Dad ~ that belly is what happens when Viper jocks move out of their planes and into stagnant peacetime commands). Add in his post-Kara depression and his previously established inclination to self-pity, and voila, it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that he would let his health deteriorate for the sake of some passing comfort.

I think it is reasonable that the men and women would've gotten soft after the chaos of war was over - there's no need for the uberfit body ready for duty. But the emotional eating/bingeing doesn't work for me as a way of expressing Lee's disappointment and depression. When people are taxed, depleted, they resort to the most basic of their coping skills, usually developed in childhood. Lee's childhood, as it's painted, seemed to be about him becoming parentified when his father left and mother was incapacitated (I may be extrapolating from fanon here). Given the way he's characterized, especially in the mini and S1, I see his basic coping skills as rigidity, obsessiveness and isolation. I think he would be more likely to eat less, to deny himself any pleasure (seen as weakness or vulnerability?), as he did when he declared his love to Kara. That "weakness" had cost him dearly. I see him doing every possible thing he could to force Kara out of his mind and to fill his life with as much structure as he could muster.

I can see the argument for just giving in to depression. I think that is very likely, but I don't think he would eat. I think he'd withdraw and wither away first. He does not seem like the type to look easy comfort in food. I can see him lying on his rack, defeated, staring at the ceiling - or pretending everything is fine while he's dying inside. He'd just married Dee - he has to work hard to pretend everything is wonderful. What a heartbreaking thing to have to do. :(

From:

damao2010.livejournal.com

I couldn't agree more.

From:

callmeonetrack.livejournal.com

My biggest regret about the Fat!Lee thing is, I think, the same as yours, though. Instead of using it as a springboard to tell a story about Lee's depression and private anguish, and his struggle to overcome those obstacles, it was used instead as a substitute for the story itself.

This, exactly. I didn't find it hard to believe that he would indulge in passivity (which he has a strong streak of in his character) and comfort-eat at all.

The Lee-loses-it-in-a-week diet was kind of ridiculous of course. I wish we'd gotten to see more reaction from Kara of the change in him, and wish we'd gotten a scene where he responded (other than trying to throw her out the airlock) to the change in Kara.

I had no idea about that Marines storyline! I'm...glad they didn't do that.

I also can never truly hate Fat Lee because it gave us

queenofthorns most brilliant crack!fic Too Solid Flesh (http://queenofthorns.livejournal.com/278139.html).

Edited Date: 2010-06-18 04:12 pm (UTC)

From:

kag523.livejournal.com

Rachel - go check the Dr. Suess comment above yours... I seriously think you should do this!

From:

rachelindeed.livejournal.com

Hee! Thank you. Lee and Dee have a certain alluring assonance, I'll give them that. At the moment my crazy is being funnelled elsewhere, but this post reminds me why this community is ridiculously fun. I believe it was ninjamonkey who introduced me to the joy of angsty pilot limericks... she's written some great ones!

:)

From:

ninjamonkey73.livejournal.com

I believe it was ninjamonkey who introduced me to the joy of angsty pilot limericks... she's written some great ones!

Shh! Don't tell anyone, but there may be some tomorrow...

From:

rachelindeed.livejournal.com

**flail!!**

Will file away under 'reasons to get up in the morning.'

:)

From:

nazkey.livejournal.com

I wrote one for you. Go take a look. :-)

From:

damao2010.livejournal.com

"I didn't like the Fat!Lee storyline either, largely because it turned out not to be a storyline at all."
Absolutely. As usual, we, the fans, devoted much more thought to the whole storyline (or lack thereof) than the writers ever did. It is another example of a really, really poorly executed idea. To be honest, I think it falls into the "lets shock the viewers to try to get their attention" category more than anything else.

I think the idea itself was very questionable to begin with. Of course, it is very possible to make a case for Lee eating his way into depression, as you have so beautifully made. He did have reasons to be feeling down and adrift both personally and professionally. Canon has provided us with at least one instance where he showed signs of a depression that almost ended tragically (the near suicide in Resurrection Ship - though I have to say it also caught me by surprise then).

I understand that he had taken over a more burocratic position in a time when the active fight seemed to have ended and lots of people were leaving the service to settle down on the planet. This could possibly make him feel unmotivated to keep up with his regular exercising routine and could have caused him to let go to a certain point. I guess it would be similar to what happens with professional athletes after they retire. Many of them find it difficult to keep the same routine and gain weight. If you add his frustration and disappointment over the fall out with Kara in the mix, things could have even got out of hand.

However, he didn't just gain weight. He became really obese in a relatively short time - I'd say one year tops. It would take much more than indulging into “passive behavior” for that to happen. And that is what I think made the whole plot feel contrived to me. First because, as a rule, when angry, hurt or frustrated, Lee’s first instinct is to lash out, to fight (with words or fists) – he acts like a mean SOB. I could see him working out till exhaustion and pushing his remaining crew to the limit (almost like Cain, except for the moral issues) much more easily than I could imagine him eating into oblivion. Secondly, because we could imagine that with so many people settling on the planet, the ones who remained onboard would have to be overworked rather than the opposite. In fact, I always thought the idea that the military with have nothing to do and would let standards fall so low very unrealistic. Thirdly, because although we ‘ve seen him go through more introspective, sulking moments , as any good overthinker would, the “pushing too hard” part of his personality always prevails, especially when there is something to be do, when duty calls. And when the fleet jumped away and it took them a couple of months to prepare the rescue mission, he had a cause to fight for and to get ready for. But apparently he only worried about getting back in fighting shape after the mission. And then, he was able to be his old self in no time whatsoever. No, from beginning to end the whole thing was simply preposterous.