DPP: Free For All Friday

[ninjamonkey73.livejournal.com]

Greetings and salutations, 'shipper nation! This is Amy, known on your internets as ninjamonkey73, and I'm driving the DPP bus this week. Sit back and enjoy the ride...





What's on your mind, 'shipper nation? Have a gripe about an episode? Are you such a Lee fangirl you want to shout his praises from the nearest mountaintop? Want to try your hand at a comment!fic and need a prompt (go ahead and ask, we'll enable)? Have a neat picspam you want to stare at for a few minutes? Or that gif. You know the one I'm talking about. From EoJ. Yeah, that one. Mmmm...

The world's your proverbial oyster, people! Chat it up!

Comments

Fat!Lee is an abomination

[ninjamonkey73.livejournal.com]

Incoming Friday rant...

I'm getting on the soapbox yet again about Fat!Lee. The rewatch episodes have been requiring heavy usage of eye bleach. I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Lee Adama did not get that body without an excessive amount of hard work. He would never eat himself into Garner's old uniforms. I don't care how broken up he was about Kara marrying Sam.

I blame lazy writing. They failed Lee over and over again by taking the shortest route. This is how I think things went:

Writer 1: "Hey, we need to show how frakked up by Kara's betrayal Lee is."

Writer 2: "We could have him talking to someone about it."

Writer 1: "We never gave him any friends other than Kara. It would be weird if he had the conversation with Dee."

Writer 2: "True... So, how do we show he's depressed without him saying so?"

Writer 1: "I eat when I'm depressed."

Writer 2: "That's perfect! We throw in a couple of stage directions to have him eating something and the special effects department takes care of the hard part!" *high fives Writer 1*

Argh! Come on, writers! Lee would have thrown himself into punishing exercise! This is a man who boxed out his frustrations prior to NewCap and again in UB. If someone wrote the "eats himself into a size 40" in a fic, I might have stopped reading for how OOC it feels.

Thankfully, the rewatch is coming out the other side. And UB and UBEX is fast approaching (I haven't watched regular UB - we only watched the extended - so I'm excited to see how it aired). And I have to say, some of my favorite Fit!Lee images come from the dance in UB. I certainly wouldn't kick Fit!Lee out of bed for eating crackers!

Re: Fat!Lee is an abomination

[kag523.livejournal.com]

Oh my goodness, I LOVE THIS EXPLANATION!!! It makes perfect sense, (in the writing's lack of sense). Well put! *hugs*

Re: Fat!Lee is an abomination

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

Fat!Lee is a total mischaracterization of Lee Adama. Again RDM and writers going for SHOCK VALUE and disregarding the actual character they'd built.

I completely agree that he would have never eaten to deal with his pain. He's too active, too physical not to resort to extreme physical exercise and probably some obsessive workaholisim. I said a while back that I could see him exercising almost every single day, pushing himself harder than ever, and being mean an unapproachable asshole all the while. I can see him becoming very obsessive about work, pushing the crew hard to meet his exacting standards. I picture him creating some elaborate overhaul of the entire ship so he could work nonstop. (I think I said earlier that I picture him obsessively sewing new buttons on to all of the uniforms - haha!)

Great things to talk about.

(Although, Fat!Lee does create lovely opportunities for CRACK!!)

Re: Fat!Lee is an abomination

[latteaddict.livejournal.com]

Writers failures aside.

It's obvious Lee didn't become fat!Lee because of Kara, he became fat!Lee because he woke up one morning realising he was stuck with Dee. Forever. He had a future to look forward to that was as exciting as a nursing home. Who wouldn't want to eat themselves to death? Okay, Billy. But Billy adored Dee. And Lee did not. Billy was (almost) as gobsmacked with Dee the moment they met as Lee was with Kara the moment they met. Whereas it took Lee months and months to notice Dee and he only did so when she fell on his head tits first. Kara just had to open a door and smile.

At least Lee got back in shape once Kara came home.

Re: Fat!Lee is an abomination

[rachelindeed.livejournal.com]

Hhmm, this is an interesting argument. I didn't like the Fat!Lee storyline either, largely because it turned out not to be a storyline at all. But I think the reasons I disliked it were slightly different than yours. I didn't find it fundamentally out of character; and I thought they botched the ending of it more than the beginning.

You are absolutely right that no one looks like Lee unless they have developed long-standing habits of stringent physical conditioning, and you are also right that at other points in the series we see Lee dealing with stress by indulging in particularly harsh and cathartic exertion (such as picking a fight with the biggest guy in the room in UB).

But for many people exercise is tied into their overall daily routines, and if their normal regimen is disrupted by the loss of some unifying structure - like a job, for example - that had previously ordered their time, then that disruption can have a ripple effect. Lee kept himself in fighting trim when he was an up-and-coming young officer in college and in his early career, and then when war broke out and he had to face combat and lead the entire Air Group every day I think he became even more rigorous in the standards he set himself. When he was promoted to command the Pegasus it was initially a very stressful and demanding position, and again they were in the midst of constant life-or-death peril.

But look at what happened to the structure of fleet life after settlement began on New Caprica. Suddenly Lee was in charge of a skeleton crew that did nothing but circle in orbit without anything constructive to do for months on end. Military routine and discipline crashed throughout the fleet, and the constant stress of the previous year was replaced by mind-numbing boredom. He was in a desk job, no longer required to maintain combat readiness (look at his Dad ~ that belly is what happens when Viper jocks move out of their planes and into stagnant peacetime commands). Add in his post-Kara depression and his previously established inclination to self-pity, and voila, it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that he would let his health deteriorate for the sake of some passing comfort.

I think that bifurcation - pushing too hard or going too passive - has always been a part of his character; even in his last scene, he tells Kara that he always imagined that when the stress of the war was over he would "spend the rest of [his] days doing the absolute minimum humanly possible." Of course the other, healthier side of him, the side that relishes challenges and can't resist pushing his personal limits, came to the fore both in the finale and throughout much of the series, but that lurking "let it all go" impulse was always a part of him, too, I think.

My biggest regret about the Fat!Lee thing is, I think, the same as yours, though. Instead of using it as a springboard to tell a story about Lee's depression and private anguish, and his struggle to overcome those obstacles, it was used instead as a substitute for the story itself. As you say, it was as if the writers thought they had done enough to establish Lee's inner world by using this heavy-handed visual cue, and as a result they didn't go any further into Lee's interior life until basically Unfinished Business. They dropped the weight abruptly without showing anything of the emotional or physical struggles that would have entailed for a man who was truly fighting his way out of depression. Their treatment of Lee there was, in a word, shallow. (Apparently there was a 'he and Dee enter the Marines' storyline planned for the beginning of Season Three to explain how he lost the weight and developed a harder, more ruthless attitude toward himself and the military - the only remnant you see of it is in "A Measure of Salvation," I think. I'm personally glad they dropped that idea, though. I didn't want to watch Lee and Dee in boot camp, but I guess it would at least have been a narrative).

Ah, well.

Re: Fat!Lee is an abomination

[nazkey.livejournal.com]

I want to start by saying that I do not like Fat!Lee!, I do not subscribe to the lame storyline attached to it and Fat!Lee! is a writing cop out like the stupid porn 'stach. Making people look physically ridiculous to explain their inner turmoil is ridiculous.

Now, having said that, let me be the devil's advocate here for a sec. We all know that Lee is an uber control freak when it comes to his emotions. He has such a tight rein on them that he can't get out of his own way. So now, as Sophia would say: Picture this: Lee, after having for the first time, let go and admitted his feelings to Kara gets dumped unceremoniously without an explanation (okay, fine, he didn't ask for one, but we're moving on cuz I am actually trying to defend Lee here. It sucks to be the devil). In a fit of "frak this, I'll show her," he proposes to Dee in what has to be the poutiest, most 5-year-old way to propose ever and she accepts him with a clear understanding that she KNOWS this isn't a fairytale of love and happiness, but just a "hey, it's the end of the world, so let's get married and we'll have someone to frak every night" kinda way. Then, Lee's stuck on the Pegasus with a crew that's still part hostile and he has to prove himself to them. To top this beautiful sundae off with a big fat red cherry, there is NOTHING to do. People are mustering out, there's no real action, there is nothing. So Lee lets go. Why keep yourself in such tight control when it doesn't even matter?

See, I'd agree that Lee would delve into exercising or coming up with some monster project with crazy ass deadlines to keep working IF he was actually angry, if he still actually cared. I feel like at this point, he just doesn't. He's given up on everything because he feels that HE doesn't matter anymore. To anyone. And he starts believing that and hence lots of crackers and the birth of Fat!Lee!. I bet that every day, when he looked at himself in the mirror he hated himself which would probably send him even deeper into his depression. You can see that the minute the action picks up, he gets reinvigorated and starts taking care of himself.

Continuing on as the devil, I actually really liked Dee before this whole nonsense of her dumping Billy for Lee. I thought she had a quiet strength to her that was very admirable. I hated what they did to her character. It also pissed me off that she LET Lee get fat and lose sight of who he is, although there's a fic begging to be written here for the number of times they argued because Dee saw him giving up and finally, realizing that he just wouldn't listen to her, gave up on him too.

Okay, I'm done. Devil's leaving the building. Bring back Fit!Lee! and a storyline that makes more sense. Oh, and shave that frakking porn stach off.

Re: Fat!Lee is an abomination

[bellaaurora.livejournal.com]

I had never really thought this through from a characterization perspective (perhaps because Lee's character is so all over the place), but this SO MAKES SENSE. If anything, imho, people who are that exercise driven tend to only gain weight when they feel settled or comfortable, particularly with regard to their relationships, and Lee at that period is anything but.

Re: Fat!Lee is an abomination

[somethingusual.livejournal.com]

Hey, for the UBEX rewatch do you know where I could get a copy? I can't find it anywhere.

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

In lieu of more tiresome Dee bashing, I have to just say:

[ninjamonkey73.livejournal.com]

WORD TO YOUR MOTHER!

[nazkey.livejournal.com]

OH. MY. GODS.

BRILLIANT. BEYOND BRILLIANT.

ATTENTION EVERYONE: RUSH, RUSH, RUSH TO READ IT RFN.

Wow

[rachelindeed.livejournal.com]

Wow. I have never had such a billing!

Thanks so much!!

How much did Dee know about NuCapFrak?

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

While we're on the subject of Lee's reaction to Kara's crushing, I am wondering how much Dee knew about what had happened between Kara and Lee on New Caprica. The story is a bit confusing, of course, because UB and UBEX tell slightly different stories. I am thinking specifically of one interaction between Lee and Dee on Pegasus when Kara calls to ask Lee for meds (at the end of LDYB-II). Lee asks "Who is it." Dee gives him a look, something passes between them and there's awkwardness.

I wonder why she would react this way? It's been a year plus, Lee and Dee are married, seemingly fine, but there's a jealousy and some unspoken acknowledgment about Lee's feelings about Kara here that didn't seem to be shown from Dee anywhere else prior to this episode.

It always struck me as odd. Theories?

Re: How much did Dee know about NuCapFrak?

[nazkey.livejournal.com]

Well, during the dance, when Kara throws it in her face, Dee seems pretty shocked, so I don't think she knew about the frak, but she obviously knew that there was truckloads of UST between these two people. I think when Kara calls, Dee's reaction might've been an echo of what she told Lee when he proposed, i.e. that Kara is back in Lee's life and the roller coaster ride is about to start.

Re: How much did Dee know about NuCapFrak?

[kag523.livejournal.com]

I actually think Dee knew exactly what she was getting into - though I'm not that this excused anyone for their behaviours. I'm just saying that I think a LOT of people, including Dee, knew what was going on with Lee / Kara far before New Caprica. (Which is going to lead to a rant about Lee for marrying her in the first place.)

I'm basing this on the discussion that Dee has with Lee in the raptor after they leave New Caprica the morning Kara marries. This is one of those extended scenes that didn't make it to air, but it basically involves Dee saying she'll marry Lee until the cylons come back or Kara Thrace walks back into Lee's life.

Ouch.

That girl knew she was headed for a world of pain... and yet she still jumped in without a backward glance.

So my Friday Free for All question is this: WHY would any sane person do that? Why?

(And ninjamonkey's description of Lee's "magical hip dents" can't be the ONLY reason for it.)

Fic request!

[nazkey.livejournal.com]

Can one of you crazy-talented-churns-fics-out-like-no-one's-business people (yeah, I'm talking to YOU) write this one for me and indulge both of my fanfic fantasies:

Pride & Prejudice/BSG crossover.

Setting: doesn't have to be Regency England. Lizzy & Will work in modern times too.
Lee/Darcy
Kara/Elizabeth
Helo/Bingley
Papadama/Mr. Bennett
Roslin/Mrs. Bennet (*g*)
Baltar/Wickham
Six/Lydia (double *g*)
Leoben/Mr. Collins

Etc. C'mon! Help a fellow shipper out here, wouldja? Mkay? Thx. &hearts

Re: Fic request!

[ninjamonkey73.livejournal.com]

O. M. G. Your casting is FABULOUS! My only knowledge of P&P is the BBC mini (squee!), so you won't be getting this fic from me, but I certainly second the request!

Re: Fic request!

[kag523.livejournal.com]

OMG Leoben cast as Mr. Collins is AWESOME!!!!!! (Is there artistic license to cast Ellen Tigh as Mrs. Bennett?)

Did someone say hipdents?

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

(http://s784.photobucket.com/albums/yy126/scifishipper/BSG/BSG%20GIFS/?action=view&current=towel2.gif)

(http://s784.photobucket.com/albums/yy126/scifishipper/BSG/?action=view&current=leetowellarge.jpg)

(http://s784.photobucket.com/albums/yy126/scifishipper/BSG/?action=view&current=leehandonface.jpg)

Re: Did someone say hipdents?

[ninjamonkey73.livejournal.com]

Guhguhguhguhguh...

The bottom pic is my fav. The face really makes it.

I HAVE NO SHAME (Fic search)

[ninety6tears.livejournal.com]

Okay, I have an embarrassing, weirdly specific thing I was thinking I'd love to read in a fic: Are there any out there that involve Lee kissing/licking/otherwise nuzzling Kara's scar on her tummy while they're having sexytimes?

Request for information

[ninjamonkey73.livejournal.com]

Let's say, hypothetically, I was asked for the most creative/painful ways to kill Loeben (in any universe/setting). Any ideas, peeps?

Re: Request for information

[amidala-thrace.livejournal.com]

... I think I love you. *hits Track Thread button!*

Dr. Seuss Drabble

[nazkey.livejournal.com]

Whoops ...

Made a mistake in my previous note.

This is for kag523 who wanted a Dr. Seuss drabble. You can read it Here (http://nazkey.livejournal.com/3893.html)

Re: Let's all say positive things about s4...

[ninjamonkey73.livejournal.com]

I love flashback!pilots right up until the double dog dare.

Fanvid/song obsession

[bellaaurora.livejournal.com]

I'm not usually much of a radio listener, but I have to spend insane amounts of time in traffic due to my job this summer. There's this song on the radio right now that I can't help connecting to the triangle of doom from Lee's perspective circa early season 3: Breakeven by the Scripts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Bp13TeFNrw). Lyrics are here (http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/t/the_script/breakeven.html). I have no where near the skills or technology to fanvid, but man if I did...

Thoughts?

Re: Fanvid/song obsession

[rdave1.livejournal.com]

It's a great song!! It became one of my K/L songs as soon as I heard it. The actual video for the song would fit pilots so well. The girl walking away with another man. The song also fits great for UB and post finale!!

I would love a video on this, sorry I have no skills.:)