DPP: Lee Adama Has No Friends

[cynicalshadows.livejournal.com]

Friends can be lovers, and lovers can be friends, but what if the person involved is your only friend? This is a question that has been floating around in my head for a while concerning Lee. Kara has Helo, but Lee seems to have nobody as a friend besides Kara. Could this have contributed to his reluctance to admit his feelings for her? Was Lee just scared to risk his sole friendship for a chance at love? Who else could Lee have befriended and could a confidant have affected his relationship with Kara?

Comments

[somethingusual.livejournal.com]

Ooo, very interesting idea. I guess it's true isn't it, Lee didn't really have any friends. He was just visiting Galactica when the war started and people died/became cylons so often that he didn't seem to have a chance to make friends. Not to mention he was their boss. Man, poor Lee.

That said, I don't think their friendship would have been Lee's biggest concern when considering whether or not to go after Kara. I think his biggest hurdle was the whole Zac issue and the guilt of dating his dead brothers ex-fiance.

His second biggest hurdle I'd say would be his general shyness when it comes to dating (this is what I imagine stopped him from making a move on Kara at the end of season 1 dress/dance scene, at least in my own personal cannon).

Personally I found Lee didn't seem to have a much of a resistance to admitting his feeling for Kara besides awkwardness. It always seemed like Kara was the one who was more reluctant.

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

This very thing struck me as I was writing my big bang. I kept trying to figure out who could be a foil for Lee about his feelings for Kara. And nothing. Bupkus. Frustratingly no one he can talk to about what's going on.

I agree with somethingusual's comment that he came on the ship temporarily and thus had no friends. I remember thinking how uncomfortable and alone he seemed in that briefing room with all of the pilots staring at him. It's strange really, since he seems like a friendly enough person. He does seems awkward, though, and doesn't really fit in with the card-playing (although he did it in S1) and doesn't really chat or work out with people the way the others seem to do.

Maybe it's about the writers not knowing what to do with his character, I don't know.

If I were to imagine someone he could be friends with, I guess I could see a friendship with Boomer (pre-cylon reveal), and there's definitely some connection there with Roslin, if circumstances had been different. As for other crew? Maybe Kendra Shaw, but that has lots of problems. So that leaves us with Dee. O_O

Great topic!

[latteaddict.livejournal.com]

Lee ended up being friends with the Chief. They drank together and bitched about their marriages.

Lee also worked out with Helo which implies they eventually formed some kind of friendship.

Romo turned out to be a crazy sort of friend too.

He had his dad to talk to, Roslin on occasion and of course, Kara.

[kag523.livejournal.com]

For some reason, Lee's relationship with Romo always makes me happy, probably because he's one of the few people that make Lee's obsessions and neuroses seem paltry. (I mean, if you can get past the fact that Romo was carrying around the dead cat for ages.) Also, Romo's commentary about learning to live without his wife was just beautiful. Loved it.

[olaf47.livejournal.com]

I honestly think Lee's best chance at friends were Dee and Sam. Of course, that got infinitely screwed.

But really, I think the storyline could have been much better if Lee and Dee were great friends instead of the writers, in my opinion, making up tension that wasn't there. And Dee is sensible and smart and kind. I think that would have been a better use of her character.

Lee and Sam could have been friends the same way Lee and Helo were some kind of friends. They were both guys fighting for the worlds and they both understood that those worlds revolved around Kara Thrace. Unfortunately for Lee, Helo would always come down on Kara's side, in the end, and of course, the competition with Sam makes friendship kind of hard.

[kag523.livejournal.com]

I would have liked to have seen more of a relationship developing with Sam. I think they'd actually have a lot in common, or would have, had Kara not returned from the dead.

[entaiaime.livejournal.com]

Heck yeah. I think that would have been awesome. Sam + Lee - Kara = BFF.

[somethingusual.livejournal.com]

I really would have liked to see Lee have a friendship with Dee. She was a lovely character.

[damao2010.livejournal.com]

When Lee first arrived at Galactica he was intent on alienating people by making it obvious how much he disliked being there at all and pretty much acting like an aloof SOB towards ... well... everybody. That's not very conductive to making friends. But then, he never expected to be there a minute longer than what was absolutely necessary.

The first few days after the attacks were probably a little awkward since he suddenly had to lead a group of people he didn't know and who didn't know him with the additional strain of not having created the best first impression and being the commander's son (nepotism might come to mind here). However, I would imagine those days to have been such a mess that those kinds of worries would be the last thing on people's minds.

After this, the negative first impression probably started to dispell and people started to see the real Lee/Apollo. He probably was in friendly terms with everybody afterwards.

However, being friendly is not the same as being friends. Friendship takes time to build. And even when you have lots of friends, there are few (sometimes only one) you consider your best friends, the ones you really confide in and are able to really open up to. I think Lee was a very private person and, even before the attacks, his closest friends/confidants were not many. (I like to believe Zac would have been one of them and this would have made his death and his feelings for kara even harder to deal with.)

Anyway, what all this rambling comes down to is that I believe that, over time, the Chief, Helo and probably a couple of other pilots might have become his friends but neither of them seemed to have reached the level of best friend/confidant. Kara was certainly a friend, the best one he had then and the only one he would let see the most private, emotional, insecure sides of him . But there was so much going on underneath the surface between them that they would never be confidants. They communicated so much without speaking but there was so much misunderstanding because they were unable to talk. It is a contradiction : they were friends but they could never really be friends because they were so much more than that. I think, strangely, Romo could become a real good friend.

Latteaddict said he had his father to talk to, but, given the number of issues between them, that was never a possibility. Let's be honest, parent/children relationships are usually complicated regardless of how much love/support is there. When the mini began Lee and his father could hardly have a civil conversation, no way Lee would confide in him. Their relationship improved considerably over the years but it never got to the point where either of them was comfortable enough to talk about anything really personal.

Sadly, I think Lee was very lonely and I guess it would explain part of his behavior. I don't think this played any significant part in his hesitance towards Kara, though, because, as I said before, they were friends but , at the same time, they weren't.

[kag523.livejournal.com]

I like how you think. :>)

[entaiaime.livejournal.com]

However, being friendly is not the same as being friends. Friendship takes time to build. And even when you have lots of friends, there are few (sometimes only one) you consider your best friends, the ones you really confide in and are able to really open up to. I think Lee was a very private person and, even before the attacks, his closest friends/confidants were not many. (I like to believe Zac would have been one of them and this would have made his death and his feelings for kara even harder to deal with.)

I 100% agree with you. I think Kara and Lee were friends, but not. They were friends through Zak. I like to think that he had friends on the battlestar he was stationed at before coming to the decommissioning and on the colonies. I still don't know if they were close though because Lee is so guarded in all his personal relationships.

I liked your post a lot! Lots of interesting thinky thoughts.

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

Dee was Lee's only friend (besides Kara) pretty much. (Helo and Chief happened later and we didn't see any development of those relationships really.) I think that's a good part of why he married her. She was someone he confided in and someone who supported him (enabled him to a detrimental amount too).

I think Lee in general was rather awkward with people. His dad, Roslin (you'd think they'd be closer but I always found their exchanges to be somewhat awkward all along), the pilots, the deck crew. Part of it is because he was always having to be someone's superior (the pilots/deck crew) or inferior (Adama/Roslin). Dee was outside his chain of command so he could be a little more relaxed. And Kara was Kara, who was everything to him all at once, so he never knew how to stand on ceremony with her in any way and he just had to be himself. But really, I just think Lee wasn't good with people one-on-one. He loved the greater good, but close relationships were not his forte. He was always too wary of people's motives.

[entaiaime.livejournal.com]

But really, I just think Lee wasn't good with people one-on-one. He loved the greater good, but close relationships were not his forte. He was always too wary of people's motives.

Yes. This. He wasn't even that good with Kara one-on-one. I wonder if he didn't understand how his words or actions affected other people. It was almost as if he operated outside of society. He could see society for what it was and what it should be as an idealist. But he didn't know his place in it.

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

Yeah sometimes he knew just how to handle her and what to say, but other times, not at all. For people who knew each other so incredibly well in some ways, in other ways they were entirely uncertain of what the other one felt/thought.

[ninety6tears.livejournal.com]

It's funny how this issue comes up quite importantly in my big bang *snickery*

I feel like Lee probably takes a very long time to accept people as friends (which Kara was probably an exception to at some point), doesn't actively try to make friends as much as most people, but saying Kara is his only one would be an exaggeration by the end of the show. Earlier on, though, I think Kara really is his main social connection on the ship and it certainly could have been a factor in his hesitance to get into the romantic feelings, but certainly not the biggest problem.

[nazkey.livejournal.com]

It's hard to make friends - real friends - when you've got your feelings and emotions under such tight control. I think that while Lee is friendly with people, he definitely doesn't have any real friends. Even Kara is not really a friend because there is so much emotional baggage that Lee keeps bottled up inside. Inevitably that gets in the way of really opening up and confiding and being true friends with her.

One of the most telling and poignant moments for me was when Adama told Lee that he needs to choose a side. That's Lee's problem right there. He has so much going on in his head, so many diametrically opposed ideas/thoughts/feelings that he just can't get out of his own way. Even when he does choose a side, he ends up alienating people to some extent because he doesn't "give" much of himself.

The turning point is Gaius' trial. It's the one time when Lee publicly goes all out and lays it all out on the line, without caring about the consequences of voicing his controversial (but brutally honest) opinion out there for all to hear. Still, he's ultimately alone and as much as the ending pissed me off, it's a bit poetic that he does in fact end up all alone at the end of the series.

[kag523.livejournal.com]

"It's hard to make friends - real friends - when you've got your feelings and emotions under such tight control."

That line says it all. Perfect.

[entaiaime.livejournal.com]

I think that while Lee is friendly with people, he definitely doesn't have any real friends. Even Kara is not really a friend because there is so much emotional baggage that Lee keeps bottled up inside. Inevitably that gets in the way of really opening up and confiding and being true friends with her.

Yes! This. I never thought that Kara and Lee were friends either because of how they treat each other. They were never able to share anything that was really important.. it was all teasing and friendly banter. But they always locking their true emotions up. That's not real friendship.

Even when Lee tried to tell Kara how he wanted to die in the spacewalk, she just glossed it over instead of really hearing him. I think they loved each other, truly. I think they knew how to be there for each other physically (have each other's backs in a dogfight and whatnot) but emotionally? I don't think they knew how to show each other they cared for each other emotionally.

I liked your thoughts on this a lot.. Thanks. =)

[damao2010.livejournal.com]

"I never thought that Kara and Lee were friends either "...it was all teasing and friendly banter. But they always locking their true emotions up. That's not real friendship. "

Yes, friendship is not the best word to describe their relationship. In some ways they were so much more than that. They knew each other from before and it seemed as if Kara was the only person who was allowed to see certain parts of him and she was the only one he confessed his death wish to. The same was true for her: in lots of ways he was the person who knew her the best. And when it mattered the most, they certainly supported each other unconditionally.

However, most of the times, they failed so miserably at communicating and they were both so afraid of their feelings that they kept lots of things bottled up. That is not friendship. You are not afraid of your friends (especially the best ones). They are the ones you open up to without restrictions. It is the fact that you are able to do so that makes you friends in the first place.

This whole discussion had me going back to something Rachelindeed wrote here a couple of weeks ago (http://community.livejournal.com/no_takebacks/50972.html?thread=3579932#t3579932):"Lee rarely emotionally connects with anyone, though he is protective of many" and "he has Kara, who pulls out of him every single emotional tie that he has such trouble offering to others: sibling, best friend, professional rival, lover, wife. She's his surrogate *everything.* She is a great, blazing, irresistable exception to his default "stand apart and be protective" mode. "

[entaiaime.livejournal.com]

I completely agree with you. You articulated what I was thinking so much better than I could. I love reading your posts! You are really insightful when it comes to Kara and Lee's relationship. BTW Thank you for the link.

[rdave1.livejournal.com]

What a great topic!

Now that I'm thinking about it, it really is true that Lee had no other friends on Galactica besides Kara. Kinda sad! One of the main reasons for that is that he was only visiting when the war started and secondly, I think people saw him as the Commander's son rather than a co-worker. Kara was the only one he knew from before. I think given time he might have been good friends with a few people like he did with Helo and Chief. But that really didn't happen till the whole thing with Kara fell apart.

I think Lee would have risked his friendship with Kara for his love for her, eventually he did. One of their biggest hurdle was Zak early on and later themselves. Sometimes I think Lee didn't even trust his own feelings for Kara or may be he didn't know what it was to tell her.