DPP: Fanon Complaints

[cynicalshadows.livejournal.com]

Special destinies. Poofs. Pigeons. Almost table fraks. We all have things that we don't like about canon. But what about fanon? Do you not like when Starbuck is characterized as an easy lay? Do you hate stick-up-his-ass!Lee? Do pilot babies make you cringe? Here's your chance to complain about the things in fic that bug you.

Comments

[da-angel729.livejournal.com]

I definitely don't like when Kara's characterized as an easy lay. Especially if nothing is said about Lee. Because, in canon, Kara's confirmed sexual partners are Zak, Baltar, Sam, and Lee. And Lee's are Gianne, Shevon, Dee, and Kara. I don't think I forgot any, but please correct me if I'm wrong. It's the same number, people! If Kara's an easy lay based on that information, so is Lee!

I also don't like Lee or Kara as Cylons fics. Especially Lee. Because I think Lee's one of the most 'grounded' characters in the show-in that he's not connected to the overall mythology-and making him a Cylon requires too much suspension of disbelief for me. Of course, this is just how I see him.

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

I'm also bothered by Kara or Lee as cylons. There is one fic in particular that handles it very well, but otherwise it is too OOC for me.

[jeeshee.livejournal.com]

YES on the easy lay. Kara's no wilting flower, sure, but slutty? Despite what certain characters claim in the heat of the moment, it's not confirmed in canon.

[nazkey.livejournal.com]

I definitely don't like when Kara's characterized as an easy lay.

Argh. That drives me nuts too. Why is it that a strong woman has to turn into a slut just because she's comfortable with who she is and what she wants? There is absolutely no indication in canon that Kara was a nymphomaniac, so fic that depicts her as one bug me too.

[kag523.livejournal.com]

I'm going to ask a question (that may be quite unpopular). Am I the only one who actually believed Sam when he told Lee: "You don't think you're the only one, do you?"

I actually did. And maybe it's because I really like Sam, but it seemed somehow fitting for his relationship with Kara, who - though I totally love her, and want to excuse everything she does - could have done that to him, and expected him to accept it. Lee and Kara were NOT good to their respective spouses.

Hmmmm... Just wondering. I'd love to hear people's opinions.

[dramaturgca.livejournal.com]

Yay, rant!

OMG I HATE KID!FIC. I HATE IT A LOT. Kara SAYS in "The Farm" that she doesn't want kids, that she's not interested in kids, it drives me nuts when people write pilot kid!fic. I will automatically stop reading anything that involves pilots with kids.

Also, any fic (there's a lot less now than there used to be) where Kara is severely maimed and Lee has to take care of her forever more. Frak that.

Don't really dig Kara as a stone-cold bitch or Lee as a nattering pansy. They're both strong, in their own ways, but they also both rely on each other deeply.

Also, poor grammar, spelling, and punctuation. And formatting that doesn't work if one has a personalized journal layout. But that's cause I'm a crank.

[rayruz.livejournal.com]

I'd like to make the rebuttal that she also says there is nothing between her and Lee. When Kara is emotionally compromised she will say what she needs to say to drive someone away. We also see that when she believes she has a child she is very compassionate towards Kacey. I am of the opinion that Kara would be a wonderful mother and would raise the most kickass kid ever.

[ninety6tears.livejournal.com]

I'm not really a fan of going overboard with tomboy!Kara. Clearly she isn't the type to get glammed up a whole lot and would probably never order the kind of drink that comes with the little sugar crystals on the rim, and for me there's a very thin line where it gets to be a little too much, but I just want more of the little inconsistencies that make it seem more "She does whatever the hell she wants" than "She doesn't do girly stuff."

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

Yes, it's the extremes that are bothersome. IMO, one of the things that makes Kara so interesting is that she is so complex. I like it when fics portray that complexity, not totally ignore it. :)

[jeebs83.livejournal.com]

I think the thing I hate most is crack!fic. The idea of taking these characters and putting them in an environment that's so foreign to the BSG universe makes me cringe. To me (and this is just a personal opinion) crack!fic is so far removed from what I love about the show that it really isn't a BSG fic at all.

Great topics this week, btw! :D

[shah-of-blah.livejournal.com]

Really? Aw, that's sad. What about crackfic that's set in the same universe?

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

I dislike fic that portrays Lee as sexually inept. If it's crack!fic, that's fine - it's meant exaggerate. But the idea that Mr. Towel does not have sexual experiences is just plain ridiculous.

And, well, since we're on the topic of sex, I dislike when Kara is portrayed as an overly romantic girl who swoons and becomes all googly-eyed when Lee kisses her. Yes, it's special and maybe better than she anticipated, (and my fanon says he's an amazing kisser), but one kiss should not send Kara Thrace OOC.

In general, as many are saying upstream, OOC does not play well.

[ninjamonkey73.livejournal.com]

Alrighty. I know this is a bit nitpicky. I'll admit that right up front.

*ahem* I get seriously taken out of stories that involve sex scenes where known laws of physics (gravity!) and anatomy are tossed aside. Now, I love a good wall!frak as much as the next person, but sometimes I find myself thinking about how, in real life, these things can't be as drawn out as some folks write them. Your mileage may vary, certainly, and I don't claim to be in anywhere near the physical condition of Starbuck (TMI?), but I'm just sayin'. Try holding yourself up, against a wall, or dangling from steel shelves for 5 minutes and tell me how your arms feel. :) Same for showers that aren't slippery, which adds a degree of difficulty to the wall!frak. (Roll a D20 for traction.)

I know, I know! It's idealized and FICTION. It's the thing that takes me out, is all I'm saying. Call me a stark realist if you must. I subscribe to gravity.

And while I'm here, I kinda' have a little, teeny issue with Kara always needing to flip Lee over and be on top. Sure, that's a part of her character, but even in canon she let Baltar be on top. Baltar! And she was imagining he was Lee, so that's just another argument in my favor. I get that a lot of writers like her take charge, not shy about sex, do what she needs to do attitude. And I don't mean that it shouldn't happen ever. For one of the first stories I wrote, my beta sent feedback that Kara is typically on top, because I did not put her there. Again, this is a minor peeve and more with fanon as a whole and certainly not with any particular writer(s) or work(s). Maybe my issue is the perception that her on the bottom is too romantic or in some way more serious than any other position.

[jeebs83.livejournal.com]

LOL, I've had those same thoughts. Sometimes when I'm reading a sex scene I'm like, 'how is that even physically possible?'

[lotus79.livejournal.com]

I would say my L/K fanon pet peeve is character bashing Dee. Fics where she is portrayed as a social climber or scheming to steal Lee away from Kara really turn me off. Mainly because that kind of thing in general turns me off - there really is no need to make the romantic rival into a 2 dimensional villain in order to make the hero/ine look good! Sam gets it a bit too but nowhere near as much - this tends to annoy me as such a gender double standard!

What else... nope, that's the only big peeve. I have a smallish one and that's that I get bored with fanon assumptions that show up in *every* fic. Like Lee being Zak's surrogate dad. Yes we know that Bill was a lousy father and absent much of the time, but I don't see any evidence that Lee is more than a year or two older than Zak. And I don't see any kid "practically raising" a sibling who is only a year or two younger. I buy protective older brother yes, but not surrogate Dad.

Right-o, I'll clean up for the next person, shall I?

[kag523.livejournal.com]

That's so true. Again - hadn't really thought of it (though I've only been involved in fanfic for a few months) but that DOES occur in an absurdly high percentage of them. Hmmm... wonder why writers do that.

[rdave1.livejournal.com]

I dislike when Kara is portrayed as being weak and needing Lee to take care of her emotionally. Now I understand that in some fics Kara goes through some trauma and that makes sense but when Lee is her crutch emotionally and makes all the decisions for her. It bugs me. Kara is strong and very resilient; I understand her needing Lee's support but anything way out there just doesn't sit right.

Another thing about those happy dappy fics just bother me. Pilots get stranded somewhere, have a few fights then tons of sex, there no talking out their issues and by the time rescue comes Kara is pregnant with like 8 kids. And they always get stranded on a beachy planet. Just not realistic!

[kag523.livejournal.com]

Oh this made me laugh, and then smile. So funny! (And so TRUE.)

[kag523.livejournal.com]

This is a very small ones, because most of mine have been taken, but I find those endless author's notes at the end of every chapter (ESPECIALLY on fanfiction.net) to be completely frustrating. I can be halfway through an angst-filled pilot scene and then something will show up talking about what the author did that weekend and how it assisted his/her writing process. Basically, if it is in bold, I avoid it, because I get removed from the story.

Distracting. (And yes, I'll fully admit I'm ADD).

[olaf47.livejournal.com]

AGH. This. I can't really read fic on fanfiction.net in general--the format and the tendency of authors to tack things on at the end of every chapter (or at the beginning for that matter). It's too much.

[olaf47.livejournal.com]

I dislike fics where Kara is suddenly unsure about things that are happening with Lee. I mean fics where they are flirting or dancing or in some way becoming close, and suddenly she thinks: what am I doing? This is Lee!

I don't buy that she would 1.) forget who she's with or what she's doing or 2.) not know that she wanted Lee at least a little. So I guess this pet peeve also includes the idea that she didn't know how she felt at all, that she was surprised to be attracted to him. I mean, come on.

[ninjamonkey73.livejournal.com]

I tend to read that reaction (and I'm guilty of writing it) as meaning not that she forgot who she was with or didn't know she had feelings for him, but as a realization that there are lines that, once crossed, can't be uncrossed. I don't know if I can make it make sense today, but I use it to signify an internal monologue more like:

What am I doing? If I let this get out of hand, do I lose my friend Lee in favor of whatever this might become? If I frak this up, do I end up with no Lee at all? Can I accept that possible outcome because I know me, know how I ruin things when I get spooked?

Which, you know, a writer would write all of and be clearer, but sometimes I feel like I've got a whole story just in her internal monologue, and I'm not always sure I have the voice just right, and Kara a doer, not a thinker... Sooo... I cop out at "What am I doing? This is Lee!"

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

I think extremes tend to bother me often. Like easily crying Kara turns me off a lot. As does punch-happy Kara. And Lee being overly neurotic or overly alpha does not ring true either.

One thing I love about their relationship in canon is that it unfolds in subtle details mostly. Subtlety in fic is wonderful and hard to find.

Oh and this doesn't bother me at all, but I think fanon loves the idea that everyone knew Kara and Lee were meant for each other, the pool, etc. but I think more likely most people didn't know about or understand their weird relationship in canon (maybe until the affair became public knowledge).

[kag523.livejournal.com]

Oh, I love those examples. So true!

[nazkey.livejournal.com]

Great topic!

For me, the number one peeve is when the characters are OOC and don't retain their "voice." As soon as I read something where Kara is waxing philosophical to Lee or Lee is supremely whiny (which he really isn't in canon), or Dee is a monster she-devil, or Sam is dumb as a rock, I'm turned off.

The whole point of BSG for me has always been that these characters live in a shade of gray and we see their evolution (or devolution) as the series progresses, so when K/L are jammed into a black & white category, I don't like it too much (like Kara = slut tomboy).

I'm a huge Kara fan so I really don't like it when a fic makes her one dimensional, which definitely isn't.

I admit it, I like baby fic. I like it though when it's accidental and K/L deal with it the way they probably would if it had happened in canon, ie they both freak out about it and try to figure out how the hell they're going to be parents in the middle of a war.

Bad spelling & grammar turn me off too. But all in all, my number one reason to not read a fic is when they are OOC.

[kag523.livejournal.com]

I couldn't find it, but a while back I read an article that noted that Star Trek portrayed society "as we want ourselves to be" whereas BSG portrayed society "as we actually are". I love the shades of grey too! It makes everything so much more realistic.

Awesome comment! (Wish I'd said it!)

[shah-of-blah.livejournal.com]

Most of my pet peeves have been aired already (generally comes down to OOC, bad writing) but I'll just add that I don't like to hear about how Lee is the most beautiful man alive/the gods gift to women/everyone--male or female--wants to have sex with him and have his babies. Also anything about him radiating "sheer masculinity." Maybe you, author, think so, but not everybody does and it would be nice to see a little individuality.

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

I think you're actually getting at a good peeve to discuss, which is when the author inserts themself into the story rather than writing what Kara would think or say (or conversely Lee, though it happens far more often the other way). Not a full on Mary Sue, but more of a "fangirl speak" tone to things. Tres annoying.

Kara knows Lee is hot (and she'll sneak a peek when he drops his towel) but she doesn't get hung up on it, IMO. Let's face it, she's had a lot of hot ass, she is Kara Thrace. ;)

And for me, I hate when Lee's blue eyes are referred to in over-the-top swooning tones.

[amidala-thrace.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't call this a pet peeve, per se, or even go so far as to say I hate it, but ... I don't read pre-Miniseries/Academy fic. I'm not even sure why. It's just not very interesting to me. Part of my dislike may have to do with the fact that I have a rather strict personal canon saying Kara met Zak before Lee, but I'm not even sure that entirely explains it either. I know I'm kind of going out on a limb here since pre-Mini fic is one of the most popular tropes in K/L fandom, but like I said ... it just doesn't do it for me. *shrugs*

Also, weak Kara and/or Kara needing to be taken care of bugs me. If it's done right, I'm game, but I have found that very few authors can realistically pull it off.

(Of course - insert requisite disclaimers here that this is just my opinion, everyone is allowed to write whatever they want, opinions can differ and that's okay, etc. I know, I am weird. ;D)

[shah-of-blah.livejournal.com]

Pre-mini fic isn't my favorite, although I definitely read it. I mean, there are some amazing pre-mini fics that I absolutely adore, but there's also a lot that feels trite to me. A lot of it just feels like it's been done before, or done better. Which can be said about a lot of fanfiction, but for whatever reason I find it especially true of this genre.

Personally, I don't much like fic set in or around UB-EoJ. Specifically, I don't like reading about how the affair started or what happened during it. Nor do I much like reading about the New Caprica flashbacks. It's weird because I like all of these things and am interested in them...maybe it's like you said, that I have my own personal canon. And of course there are exceptions, but it's still not my favorite area.

Pet peeve #1.

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

Kara as banter-spouting, smartass caricature.

Girlfriend is WAY more complex than this.

Re: Pet peeve #1.

[ninety6tears.livejournal.com]

Ugh, *rage*. It bothers me when anyone (not just fic writers) write her off as so one-dimensional.

Pet peeve #2.

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

Lee as the sensitive, romantic "girl" in the relationship.

Again, complexity. Not something to be afraid of.

Re: Pet peeve #2.

[innibis.livejournal.com]

Lee as a boot licking law abider. There is zero evidence of this.

[eternal-nomad1.livejournal.com]

I like alpha!Lee, but do not like fics where Lee turns into a deranged rapist.

Not a big fan of pre-mini/academy, although there are some out there that are really well done.

[ninjamonkey73.livejournal.com]

Oh, I forgot to mention those quasi-consensual stories where it is only my 'shipper belief that she loves him that keep it from being rape p0rn. There are at least a couple of stories where he gets all forceful and she just takes it from him and I get a little bit squicked. She doesn't exactly say no, but she doesn't really participate either. Ick.

[entaiaime.livejournal.com]

Grievances..

1) Kara is awesome at everything she does. Really? Things Kara's really good at: flying, fraking, pyramid, triad, painting, fighting.. She's not just ok at those things. She rocks at them. Don't get me wrong I love the girl.. but she needs to be human. Not superhuman. There's a difference. I love it when fic writers have her not being good at something (like cooking).

2) I can't tell you how many fics have Kara winning with full colors. It's so annoying. She can't always draw a perfect hand.

3) It bothers me in fics when Lee isn't interested in sports.. Like he only likes books or something. Lame. He can like books, just let him take his shirt off every once in awhile and play rugby or something.

Speaking of which, I find him more interesting as a character when fic writers make him have other things that he likes.. Like playing piano in Borrowed Time or racing Swans in Iced..

[cherylad.livejournal.com]

I hate when Kara is portrayed as a victim or a total tramp and I hate it when Lee is portrayed as an unfeeling, cold arse or that he is abusive to Kara.