DPP: the end of the worlds?

[coffeesuperhero.livejournal.com]

Okay. leiascully and I were talking about this last night, and I thought it might spark some interesting discussion. All credit for this topic goes to her!

What would have happened to Kara and Lee if the Colonies had never been destroyed? If the worlds hadn't ended, would they have gravitated back to each other eventually, or would they have lived separate lives? What happens if Zak doesn't die in that accident? What happens if he does? Does Kara take the posting on Galactica? If so, when Galactica is decommissioned for real, where does Kara go? What about Lee? Does he leave the military? If so, what does he do?

I am interested in hearing all your thoughts! And by all means, continue the awesome discussion about Kara from yesterday.

I've had so much fun with y'all this week! Thanks for being so amazing! ♥

Comments

[ninjamonkey73.livejournal.com]

OK. No Cylon attack, but Lee still comes to Galactica for the decommissioning ceremony. So, there's still that first brig scene. We'd lose the thought-you-were-dead-too-long-handshake, but hmmm...

After the decommissioning, they would have gone out for drinks to catch up and I firmly believe they'd have hooked up. Or at least started to keep in touch again, which would have led to the inevitable hookup.

Kara gets sent back to serve planetside once her new ship posting realizes only Adama had any control over her, so she could have ended up wherever Leland was doing his no-longer-in-the-Fleet stuff. Yup. Totally.

Even better, though! Kara doesn't pass him and Zak doesn't die, but he does get fed up with how his girlfriend and brother have this connection and running inside jokes he doesn't get. And he gets tired of Kara getting them all drunk so he'll pass out and miss her hanging all over his brother. Because, he's not sure, but he thinks they might have done something at least one time when he was passed out drunk. They acted pretty guilty for a while and tried not to be in the same place for a while. They thought he didn't notice, but he did. He's not stupid, even if he only flies Raptors. So he calls it off and Kara and Lee each debate how long they have to wait for it not to look bad before contacting the other to hang out again.

I don't have time to comment!fic any this, but boy do I want to! :)

[kag523.livejournal.com]

"Because, he's not sure, but he thinks they might have done something at least one time when he was passed out drunk."

LOVE THAT! It is such a perfectly legitimate premise to the two of them breaking things off.

And the last line: "Kara and Lee each debate how long they have to wait for it not to look bad before contacting the other to hang out again" just makes my toes curl.

Yummy!

[shah-of-blah.livejournal.com]

No Cylon attack...

I kind of think flowrs4ophelia said it best in "Aerilon Girls Are Easy." It's not the bright, shiny future we might hope for, but I think it's the most likely. They've got issues, guys, but they're still drawn together. And maybe someday they'll get it right.

Zak doesn't die...

I can never make up my mind about this. A part of me thinks that Lee and Kara wouldn't have ever become anything. I think they might have repressed their attraction as much as possible, and I do believe that Kara was happy with Zak. Another part of me thinks that Kara and Zak would have fallen apart eventually. But with that history, would Kara and Lee have been able to overcome the guilt? I do not know.

[nazkey.livejournal.com]

Oh I had totally forgotten about Aerilon Girls! That is such an awesome fic!!

What ifs... and a teeny snippet of fic

[kag523.livejournal.com]

#1 If the worlds hadn't ended, would they have gravitated back to each other eventually, or would they have lived separate lives?

With Zak gone, I think this might have been a reasonably good opportunity for Lee and Kara to end up together after much denial, much questioning, MUCH angst and (unnecessary) misery on both their parts. Seems I’ve read a couple fics along these lines, though the names escape me.

Here’s how I see it happening...

I think it would likely start out with a few “just stopping by to see how you’re doing” visits, progressing to “while I’m here, let’s go grab a couple drinks and talk about old times”, thus resulting in “Oh my gods what did I just do last night” denials, then eventually back to “just wanted to make sure you were okay... about Zak and well... about what happened” awkwardness. Yeah, the two of them would go in endless circles like this for years, denying the truth but always coming back together again. But I’m pretty sure (at least in a universe that I wrote) that they’d eventually end up together.

#2 What happens if Zak doesn't die in that accident? What happens if he does?

I’ve got to say that this one is probably the most angst-ridden of any of the questions. Without Zak’s death, there is absolutely no chance that Lee and Kara would end up living their shiny future... though of course we know from the series that it didn’t happen that way either. (Unless you happen to believe in my extended ending... which I, of course, do.)

With Zak still around, the two of them marry and Kara and Zak are happy – in some ways – though there is tremendous unease where Lee is concerned. (He’d probably avoid them for the most part.) I don’t think Kara would ever leave or cheat on Zak, but I think that the general “drifting” between the two of them – one a very strong pilot, with a whole lot of other issues, and one a very weak pilot with a so-called stable background – wouldn’t leave the two of them happy in the long run.

I think somewhere, deep down, Kara would always wonder if she met the right brother first. And to be honest, I doubt she and Zak would have kids. Hmm.... not sure why, since I’m pretty sure she and Lee would have them. But that’s my gut speaking there too.

#3 When Galactica is decommissioned for real, where does Kara go?

With no one to keep her tethered, I think Kara would probably leave Galactica for another military posting, continuing to live “outside the box” and be wild. I think eventually, she’d either get killed (doing some crazy stunt) or end up being decommissioned because of an injury (or as a result of hard living).

Since it seems like viper pilot is pretty much a young-person’s game, I could see Kara moving onto a completely different field, like art, when she did leave the military. This would make a huge difference in her ability to deal with her past and to get past a lot of her problems regarding Zak’s death and her past. (Go back to question 1...) This is the point that Lee and Kara would actually start to have a legitimate chance to reconnect in the long term. Because frankly, until Kara dealt with those demons, it just wouldn’t happen.

Re: What ifs... and a teeny snippet of fic

[damao2010.livejournal.com]

I really love your ideas but I'm afraid I have to disagree with you here. I firmly believe that if Zac hadn't died, Kara and Lee would have ended up together eventually.
Canon doesn't really gives us a lot of information regarding the dynamics of Kara and Zac's relationship, or Kara and Lee's before the attacks.
What we know is that when Kara and Lee first met each other, their connection was so immediate and strong they almost had sex, with his brother a few feet away. Under normal circumstances, this kind of behaviour would be completely out of character for both of them and I assume they would have gone through a period where they would have felt rather awkard around each other, but trying to keep it cool because of Zac. With time they would have fallen into an easy camaraderie, but the spark would have remained there, just waiting to be ignited. They would have tried to deny it to themselves but would have been constantly wary of this possibility. They might have tried to avoid each other for a while. All that would have caused a lot of inner turmoil - the desire to get closer, the fear of doing so, the guilt of betraying Zac (if only in thought), the denial, the uncertainty regarding the other's feelings. In short, lots of angst and not enough frank talk. (But, what else is new, right?)

We also know that Zac and Kara were in a serious relationship and he wanted to talk to his father about it before he died. Adama concluded they were engaged. Kara sort of confirmed it. We have no idea how long she had known Lee by that time. Or how long she and Zac had been engaged for. It is possible to imagine that she might have been having doubts by that time, but all of them were set aside after he died and became fuel for the guilt she felt for the part she played in his death. She decided to go to Galactica after that. She probably never would have done so if he hadn't died. And she didn't know Adama before that, so there was no connection there. Galactica was, however, the perfect place to run from Lee, especially after Lee and his father (whose relationship was already stranged) had fought at the funeral.
So, in my opinion, if Zac hadn't died, sooner or later, they would have broken up. He might even have been the one to break up with her either because he sensed she was not that into him as she had been before, or because he realized the attraction between her and Lee (perhaps more clearly than they themselves), or even because of the strain of living up to the great Starbuck. And after that, Lee and Kara would have eventually got together. In fact, although there would undoubtedly have been some awkwardness, everything might have been considerably less angsty.

What ifs... and a teeny snippet of a fic

[kag523.livejournal.com]

#4 What about Lee? Does he leave the military? If so, what does he do?

*Note: Was it in Razor where we find out that lifelong military was never in Lee’s plans? (Someone help me on this; I know I watched it but I can’t recall when.)

I think that Lee would have several good years service in the military, spending his time focused on his career (and to a lesser extent focused on Kara, and his denial of a continuing obsession with her that would express itself in random shore leave visits). Lee would probably retire from active service once he exceeded his father’s ranking of Commander; going to work at the War College or Academy. I think there are enough father-issues with Lee to fill an entire book... Leaving his career at this point would be a particularly fitting end to that aspect of his life.

Leaving to teach would be a rather convenient aspect of his life as... (go back to question 3 now)... Kara would be working in a smaller Arts college nearby the Colonial Forces Division of Caprica City. She and Lee would have time to hang out, talking about old times, reminiscing about Zak (which wouldn’t feel so terrible now that so much time had passed between that dare on the table), and on trying not to think about the insane attraction that still existed with the two of them.

Eventually, I think that the two of them would find themselves falling into the routine we only got a glimpse of at the start of the miniseries... friends with history, friends with attraction, friends with issues, but still closer than most. And from THIS point onward, we’d actually see some progress...

Re: What ifs... and a teeny snippet of a fic

[utenatai.livejournal.com]

That's an interesting thing I was playing with with Lee - lifelong military might never have been in his plans, but do you think he would actually have left? I think Kara had him pegged here, in a way - he'd keep telling himself he was going to leave and do something else but never really get around to well... DOING it.

(the snippet that wouldn't fit)

[kag523.livejournal.com]

#5 Like this!

Lee leans in, brushing a strand of blonde hair back from Kara’s cheek, a smile touching the corner of his lips as he does. “What?” she asks, surprised again that after so many years, the mere closeness of him, the soft pads of his fingers against her cheekbone and the faint smell of sandalwood cologne are enough to make her knees shake. Lee laughs. “You’ve got paint on your nose.”

Kara frowns, and goes to pull away; a crimson blush rising in a wave up from the collar of her faded black, metal-band t-shirt up her throat to suffuse her face. For the first time (‘since the last time,’ Kara’s mind prompts) his hand threads its way into the back of her hair and he pulls her gently toward him, while his other arm wraps around her shoulders, pulling her into his space. She frowns at him for a moment, knowing that he knows what this will do to her, and how she’ll be feeling tomorrow morning. She will be a wreck in tomorrow’s studio. She doesn’t want to face twenty fresh-faced kids feeling like that.

“Don’t...” she warns, her eyes, golden-grey, suddenly wary. “You’re leaving again tomorrow, and I don’t think I can...” The last bit of her thought disappears unspoken, because after all these years, she isn’t sure what she means by that lament anymore. Zak’s ghost has been quiet for a long, long time. Lee’s laughter disappears as she says it, but his blue eyes are twinkling, making him look younger than his years or the ranking of “Admiral” would suggest.

“Sorry for teasing you, Kara...” Lee’s eyes are soft, but he doesn’t let go, though the hand in her hair slowly slides down to rest on the small of her back, holding her still; preventing her from running. Her breathing is growing faster; another effect of his presence. Lee’s smile grows wider, and Kara finds herself staring back at him with uncertainty, a wrinkle appearing between her brows. She recognizes something in the way he’s gazing at her; it’s the look of someone holding full colours.

Lee shakes his head finally, laying down his cards for her to see. “I didn’t want to tell you until it was official, but it looks like I’ll be teaching at the Academy next year.” She isn’t sure what she expected, but it wasn’t this. “Oh,” she says softly, feeling something foreign rising inside her like a bubble. Her legs suddenly feel like they are compensating for the uneasy vertigo of artificial gravity. ‘Hope,’ her mind offers helpfully, before it goes completely quiet. Lee is smiling again, and she knows, quite certainly, that this is the sign she’s been waiting for. The thing that would change everything else.

Leaving that statement hanging between them, Lee’s arms tighten, and he leans down, capturing her mouth with his own. With a sigh, Kara lets the final bit of doubt that she’s been clinging to for so long let go, wrapping her fingers into Lee’s shirt, holding him tight. As his tongue tastes her and she sighs, she realizes that for the first time, everything feels different. There is no reason “not to”, no reason to run away, and that, in its own way is completely terrifying. The kiss grows deeper, one of Lee’s hands winding back into her hair, the other sliding up under her shirt, starting the slow burn that she knows with be raging in a few minutes.

For a second his lips leave hers and he leans in to the side of her face, whispering, “love you,” before claiming her mouth once more. With that, the last of her thoughts disappear into a haze of colours; leaving her feeling like she’s flying.

Re: (the snippet that wouldn't fit)

[ninjamonkey73.livejournal.com]

*gulp* Ahem, I'll be in my rack...

Grown up pilots make me smile. 8'D

Re: (the snippet that wouldn't fit)

[rdave1.livejournal.com]

What are you talking about, it fits damn it.:D

Re: (the snippet that wouldn't fit)

[damao2010.livejournal.com]

So sweet!!! Loved it! It's such a shame they had to wait so long. It makes me want to cry. :( Better late than never, though. :P

[rdave1.livejournal.com]

This is such an interesting question but I'm always so conflicted about it. I don't know if I actually want Zak dead and if he weren't dead then what would happen to Lee and Kara.

So setting aside the two parts of my brain that are screaming because one is saying what about this and the ohter is saying what about that.

Kara passed Zak from flight school but he didn't die just got hurt bad and couldn't fly anymore. Kara feeling guilt over the incident still takes the post on Galactica. So Lee does come for the decommisioning ceremony, Zak doesn't for some reason. Galactica is finally put to rest and Kara gets an assignment planetside. Lee stays in the military and goes to law school. As time passes, Lee and Kara keep in touch and meet up for friendly drinks when ever they can. Oh, Kara and Zak have broken up mutually since after the accident.

Lee finally opens up a law firm and Zak has finally gotten his PI license so he does some work for Lee. I like the idea of Lee and Zak working together. The three of them meet up frequently for drinks like old friends but it gets awkward with Zak and Kara being exes and Lee and Kara's attraction.

Zak being the smart cookie that he is, the light has dawned on him that his ex girlfriend and big brother are a great match. Retrospectivly, he should have seen the signs from beginning; Zak is not mad at either of them. On one their outings Zak just blurts out that the two of them should go out on a date because they make a great couple, so much in common. Pilots are reluctant but finally cave. And then they all live happily ever after...

P.S. There needs to be many fics on this topic. My comment is a mini fic but still.:D

[kag523.livejournal.com]

I like the logic of that argument!

Why, yes, I did just outline an entire LOOOONG fic. Wanna write it?

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

I'm going to say that zak does not die, but kara admits to him that she passed him without him deserving it. Zak is paralyzed from the waist down. He breaks up with her and nurtures a deep hatred. He never tells anyone about her actions.

Lee and Kara get thrown together on another ship, not Galactica and they're just pilots of equal rank, not CAGs, just pilots. Lots of secksing, card playing, drinking. They keep the relationship quiet and then unexpectedly Kara is transferred to Galactica. Lee can't go bc it's his dad's ship.

Before she's about to go, Zak gets wind of the transfer to Galactica and tells his father about Kara's falsifying records. The transfer is halted and there is an investigation. Lee also finds out about it and the relationship starts to fall apart.

The investigation brings back all of the guilt and Kara requests a transfer to yet another ship once the investigation clears her. Lee is devastated. Kara refuses to discuss it. They break up and she goes away.

Lee quits the service, becomes a lawyer (bc he's so hot in a suit) and tries to forget about Kara. Eventually Lee convinces Zak to forgive her. Once he does, Lee feels free to seek her out. He manages to position himself as a legal liaison to the military and ends up working with Kara on some yet-to-be devised project.

Kara still refuses to date him, until he arranges a surprise meeting with Zak. Kara and Zak talk (he's moved on, married, happy) and once she is forgiven, Kara and Lee get together.

Happy Times. The End.

Re: Why, yes, I did just outline an entire LOOOONG fic. Wanna write it?

[ninjamonkey73.livejournal.com]

Yeeeah... That is NOT a short story arc. But it needs to be written. Make it so.

Pretty please with something you like on top?

Re: Why, yes, I did just outline an entire LOOOONG fic. Wanna write it?

[nazkey.livejournal.com]

*squee* Another long fic from sci_fi_shipper!

WOOT!

See? I'm assuming that the writing of this fic is a foregone conclusion so that means now you're gonna have to write it. Hee.

Re: Why, yes, I did just outline an entire LOOOONG fic. Wanna write it?

[damao2010.livejournal.com]

Yay!!! Another gripping fic ahead!!! You guys really amaze me with your talent and creativity. I have found so many interesting things to read online that my real books are feeling abandoned. (At least, I can justify it to myself saying that this way my English is improving). :D

Re: Why, yes, I did just outline an entire LOOOONG fic. Wanna write it?

[rdave1.livejournal.com]

You are writing this right?:D

[nazkey.livejournal.com]

As soon as I saw this topic this morning, I was reminded of hackaddict's "Possibility" series. There's one in particular that I just love and keep re-reading. The Cylons have attacked, but didn't have the codes, so they were defeated and Lee's some sort of special ops, ruggedly delicious guy and Kara frakked up her knee and is running a business. I'm linking the ff.net one vs. her LJ. Love it!

Possibility - Different (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2467964/1/Possibility_bDifferent_b)

Another one that I really like which I just stumbled on the other day and can't stop reading, has Kara failing Zak and actually, become friends with Lee cuz he's so grateful. This one is part of a series of "fairy tales" that innibis wrote:

Cinderella - A Frakked up Fairytale (http://innibis.livejournal.com/45137.html#cutid1)

There are so many other cool fics out there that explore this topic and I feel like my own personal feelings are completely colored by them.

[rdave1.livejournal.com]

I think the fic you are thinking of is Work in Progress, do they have to pretend marriage and everything? They take her cargo ship with vipers inside for a honeymoon/recon mission to Kobol?

Oh let's be honest, Kara sucks at these things

[utenatai.livejournal.com]

It's mid-July, hot- even inside the climate control of his apartment building. The sheets want to stick to his legs where they've become damp, and he can see perspiration matting the hair to the head of one Kara Thrace, currently sprawled across his bed and over his right arm.

Her breathing hasn't even begun to slow when his brain kicks in for what is probably the first time since she walked through his front door two and a half hours ago, and he begins to try and tally the number of days it's been since she and Zak broke up. The number's not exact; Zak was reticent with the details of the breakup. Lee wasn't sure if his brother's reluctance to discuss the situation was borne from a broken heart or from embarrassment about ending things with yet another girl who his family had clearly approved of. But Lee trusts Zak enough to give him whatever space he needs to figure things out for himself. If Zak had been truly distraught he would said something, would have called sooner. Zak has never been afraid to wear his heart on his sleeve.

At least, that's what Lee tells himself as he pins the number at somewhere between forty-two and forty-five days. It's possible that Zak simply hadn't had time to mention it during the brief phone conversation they'd had the week before that, so Lee amends the number to forty-seven days, at the outside.

It's not a long time, but it's long enough to not to make the whole situation unseemly. At least, it feels long enough when Kara rolls onto her side and grins at him with that impossibly contagious rascality that somehow seems to shrink his whole world down to the distance between their two faces. It almost occurs to Lee to wonder how he got here, sleeping with his brother's (very) recently-ex girlfriend, but the truth is that he knows there was an inevitability to this. Kara props herself up on her forearms and grins into the crook of his neck, and everything about the way that they click together feels inescapably right.

"Nice of you to have me over." It comes out as sort of a half-giggle, an inside joke and he can't help but smile in return.

"If I'd known I would have changed the sheets." He means it to be sarcastic but he's grinning too hard and it doesn't come off quite right.

"Seriously." She rolls her eyes and thumbs the pillowcase in mock disgust. "I mean, ivory? That's a guy who let his mom pick his bedsheets out for him." He gives her a playful punch to the shoulder in reply, and they fall together in a pile of shared mirth. There's something about her laugh that is ridiculous and endearing at the same time.

Lee settles into Kara's side and presses the bridge of his nose against her temple. He can feel the thrum of her heartbeat, and he gives himself a moment to enjoy the sensation of closeness before he brushes the hair off her forehead and finally broaches the subject that both of them have been avoiding.

"How... What are we going to tell Zak?"

"We shouldn't tell Zak," her answer is firm. It's firm and it's quick enough that Lee wonders if she's already thought this through.

"We're going to have to tell him sooner or later."

"No," she shakes her head, pushing herself up from her elbows. Both of them are dead serious now. "Lee, we can't."

"What am I supposed to do, just never bring you home for dinner? Come on, Kara, be serious."

"I - No. You and I can't be like that. It won't work like that, Lee."

The realization of her words sinks in. It must show on his face, because she turns away, her body language suddenly uncomfortable and full of awkward angles. She dresses without so much as a backwards glance, the silence in the room bordering on oppressive. The air conditioning kicks on as she's pulling on her boots, and as the cold air hits Lee's skin with a shock he is suddenly and terrifyingly sober.

Re: Oh let's be honest, Kara sucks at these things

[damao2010.livejournal.com]

You know what? I could really see it happening like that. It would take a lot of time/angst before they were able to finally work it out. I really loved it, though. Are you going to continue? Are you??????? ;P

Re: Oh let's be honest, Kara sucks at these things

[nazkey.livejournal.com]

This is awesome! More please!!!

Re: Oh let's be honest, Kara sucks at these things

[rdave1.livejournal.com]

I can see it play out this way too. But I still believe that they would find their way back to each other. More please!!