Daily Pilots Post: Filling In the Blanks

[cosetteferaud.livejournal.com]

Hi shippers! First of all, thank you very much for all your great thinking and lovely contributions, I am really enjoying being the DPP driver this week. I adore this fandom <3. Well, we have already talked about your K/L favorite moments/scenes, but today I’d like to focus on the extended/deleted scenes… How do you feel about them?

I have always had the feeling that so much juicy piloty material was left on the cutting room floor… In RDM's podcasts we have heard of a lot of scenes that were filmed, but yet many of them had never been seen… For instance, if I remember well, from “The Passage” there was supposed to be a scene after Kara hung up Kat's picture, she turns and runs into Lee's arms and he comforts her. Also, in this episode there was a scene where Kara and Lee sit side by side throwing a ball against the wall and talk about what happened in UB. I wonder if they were actually filmed.

I honestly will never understand why certain scenes weren’t included in their respective aired episodes (hello, K/L TABFAYW scene??). But bitterness aside, I am glad that, at least, we had the chance to see those –I love most of them, and I adore all the awesomeness that was UBEX. So my questions for today revolve around this particular topic:

*Which is your favorite K/L deleted/extended scene? Why?

Given that my favorite pilots moment is the second brig scene, I guess that the extended version of this one is my fave. I love seeing Kara so vulnerable for once (even crying a little), and the picture of Lee giving her the Aurora figurine –the only meaningful token he had from his father-- as the symbol of his faith kills me. It’s very touching and sweet.
Also, even though it breaks my heart into tiny pieces, I really like the TABFYW deleted scene. So well acted and poignant. I believe this was the only time we see Kara being so honest and straightforward in her personal relationships, finally trying to be true to herself ("maybe I'm just cheating myself", gah!).
And I must confess that I have a huge amount of love for the extended “Scar” scene too, when Kara asks Lee if he can picture himself with a wife, a porch swing and a stinky rugrat pissing on his knee. I know it’s not a popular opinion, but I love “Scar” so much.

*Do you consider those scenes canon?

Personally, yes (if they don’t contradict canon, that is).

*Also, which scenes you’d have loved to see?

I guess I have a veeery long list, mainly because I am a greedy shipper and I never had enough of pilots interaction *g*. I think the scene I really, really needed to see is the Kara and Lee’s reunion after the Demetrius story arc. I mean, their farewell was pretty intense and, even though I love their next scene together –that one in Papadama’s office just before they frakked each other senseless on that desk in “Revelations”—, on a narrative level I found it contrived without a previous reunion scene.
Also, another moment I‘d have wanted to see is the beginning of their "fling" –don’t get me wrong, I love the raptor scene and the way we discovered that pilots were having a torrid affair--, but I wouldn’t have minded at all to see how it started. And another one? Well, maybe the moment when Kara met the adorable aberration that was Fat!Lee after the exodus. Can you imagine her reaction? LOL

And, here there is some inspiration for your answers. Discuss! :)

S1 pilots cuteness. Probably one of the most adorable scenes they have together –and the evidence that Lee and Kara shared little routines like jogging every morning.

Extended brig scene. I see this scene as the proof that pilots were far from over at that point –and probably that was the reason why they left the scene out.

TABFAYW extended scene. It's a totally heartbreaking scene, but I wish they'd left the full version of it in the final cut because this is probably the only time Kara actually admits in Lee's face that she loves him more than anyone and should've married him and not Sam. I would really like to know why EJO edited so much out of this scene, since it does add so much to both their characterizations.

"I think things just got more complicated" (UBEX). How much do I adore this one? I really like way UB ends, but this version… I don’t know, it's even more pilots to me, so dysfunctionally adorable (and it’s funny, I feel like it's been so long since I watched pilots… after rewatching all these moments I feel so nostalgic, this scene specifically reminded me of my emotions when I first saw UB and tore me up a little bit).



Comments

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

I totally can't make up my mind on this one.

Scenes I love....
TABFAYW extended Kara scene
Extended Six of One brig scene

Scenes I hate....
End of The Captain's Hand

and

wait for it...

UBEX.


Yep. Seriously. I don't like it. Let the hatahs descend. The dialogue is clunky and spells out too much, the random Zak reference is jarring, the Lee's "I had no idea I loved you until now" line just boggles, and ... well... it lacks the elegance of the aired version. Just not my cuppa.

[innibis.livejournal.com]

Agreed on the UBEX. I mean I like it, it's pilots afterall, but everything is spelled out and I hate it when that happens (as you know very well, Miss Bee:)).

Although the line of Lee's that you are referencing and that everyone hates is totally misinterpreted - I never read it like it seems everyone in fandom did, and neither did the people I know not in fandom. He said something like, "i guess i didn't really know it until just now'. That's not, I didn't know I loved you, that's I didn't know how much this would mean. When things are just dreams that you'll never think will come true, you don't really know. Of course he knew, he's always known, but the actually amazingness of getting Kara (that's what he thinks!) - he didn't know how much and how big and how important because he never let himself believe.

I don't really watch extended scenes - mostly because I can't being myself to watch BSG yet. I can talk about it, but watching it withthe end game in mind makes me a little snarly.

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

I like more pilots as much as the next fangirl, but yeah-- UBEX always felt more like fanfic than source material (very similar to the series 4 season finale of Doctor Who, now that I think about it.)

I can get on board with that sentiment, but it doesn't feel like how it was presented. The implication felt more like he was having an "A-ha!" moment which just seemed... off.

[innibis.livejournal.com]

Maybe it's because I wasn't in fandom or reading anything fannish when I saw it, but the line just didn't strike me that way. Oh well.

(I also think that the hands down best scene BSG ever did didn't have a pilot in it, let alone pilots. This makes me a shipper outlier and as such, I am to be taken with a shaker of salt.:))

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

What's the scene? **ponders**

[innibis.livejournal.com]

The Gaeta/Baltar scene right before Gaeta is executed.

[daybreak777.livejournal.com]

That was an excellent scene. Another ship of mine. :-D I never (ever!) thought Baltar and Felix would get a better good-bye scene than Kara and Lee but damn, they did.

[cosetteferaud.livejournal.com]

Oh, yeah, that scene was so great. I disliked very much the resolution of the mutiny arc, but this scene saved it a little.

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

Fess up. You loved those blinky robots at the very end, didn't ya? ;)

[innibis.livejournal.com]

Yes! You too? It was GENUIS!:) I immediately unplugged my microwave and threw my phone out the window and went out to til the soil. Technology = eeeeevvvviiiiilllll!

[ninjamonkey73.livejournal.com]

I'm with you on UBEX. You nailed it on the head here. Uh-oh... I feel a little rant coming on...

If UBEX had been a story by a fan, I would have thought it completely OOC and never given it a second look. No matter how drunk they were, the yelling of "LEE ADAMA LOVES KARA THRACE", etc, was CRAP. All those lingering handshakes and denial for 2+ seasons and he finally corners her and makes a play for her at what he feels might be his last chance, and... He jumps up to yell to the stars that he loves her? How the hell far did they walk that there was nobody in earshot of the bellowing? And it ain't romantic. There was so much I felt needed to be said that just got run over by this really cheesy jumping around naked and yelling... *shakes fist at RDM*

And the quiet conversation at the end of the flashbacks was a mixed bag. I tried to believe the writers meant what innibis says above about him not realizing how big it was, but that line and the "Because of Zak?" line still just take me right out of it. He says he didn't realize and she asks "Because of Zak?" Did he not realize because of Zak? What does that even mean? Did he try to push aside his feelings for her because of Zak? Different question.

On the good side, though, I love the... awe?... in her voice when she says "I love you, too." Like she can't believe it, or believe she can say it, or accept it from him. It held a ton of meaning for me.

I even thought the dance was a little creepy. The UST in front of everyone, spouses included. The room clearing out once they realize nobody's winning. Months of not talking and they get past the anger, violently- which I'm cool with for them, and then the quad of doom... Such a rich relationship up until they put them together, then stupidity.

[cosetteferaud.livejournal.com]

I do agree that UBEX is not as elegant and subtle --and poetic!-- as the aired version, but... I still love the eppy, I love the fact that we had the chance to see both versions. And I really like some moments we got to see there, like Kara quietly saying "I love you" to Lee --the scene in inteself is cheesy, I know, but I really apreciate the fact that she actually says the three words aloud without being drunken or as a dare (not that I think she didn't mean it when she shouted it to the skies, but still...). And even though I love the "I missed you/I missed you too" exchange and I feel like it's the perfect end for the aired ep, I adore the UBEX version. Pilots almost kissing in public and laughing and falling down together is too cute :)

What's the end of Cap Hands, that scene where Dualla interrupts them?

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

I strongly disagree that UBEX is cheesy. I think UB (NON EX) is very cheesy however. The shouting their love to the skies without the quiet conversation to back it up and ground it in something real and heartfelt and deeply personal to these two people seems just...lacking. Plus that hamhanded montage of their greatest moments does not excite me. I agree that they don't need the dialogue in the ring where they are spelling it out but you can't really hear/understand them that well anyway. You need the fuller picture IMO so that it's not such a cheesefest. (I also really liked getting canon confirmation that Kara met Lee when she was already with Zak. That's how it had to be in my opinion.)

ETA: Does Kara say the line at the end in UB "I think things just got more complicated" or is that only in UBEX? Because while I think that is indeed sorta obvious...whoa does she speak the truth.

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

We're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. Kara's awful insults and taunting at the Dance just make her damn near unlikeable, and the love scenes feel overdone. Given a choice, I'd rather have the freedom of ambiguity in determining just how much they loved each other, or what quiet words were spoken in the night, etc. Much like their pre-mini history, it's better left to the imagination. IMO, it's not handled well when the writers try to spell it out.

And for the record, I love the montage. I like how it grounds them in the history of the show and reminds us just how important they are to the Whole Damn Story. Microcosm of the whole show and all that. ; )

Also? The music is way better in the aired version. It's really like an extra character-- the greek chorus of their relationship if you will. There's a cohesion that UBEX lacks simply because it's missing that score.


I think it's in UBEX. We just get the "I missed you/you too" in the aired version.

[cosetteferaud.livejournal.com]

And for the record, I love the montage.

Agree. I read somewhere that RDM said that UB was an “an orchestrated love poem” and... I agree.

The music is way better in the aired version. It's really like an extra character

Agree, "Violence and Variations" is superb.

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

Yeah, we must disagree.

Kara is never unlikable. I know not what you speak of. :) I love how taunting she is because it's all about being mad at both him (for never making a move until she was moving towards permanence with someone else--I think her comment about making the same mistake when she was with Zak refers to something other than what they gave us in the flashback) and herself of course. She's pushing him and pushing so that he'll punish her, but also as a way of testing him and trying to see if there's anything left, if heh still loves her beneath it all.

I think it was incredibly powerful to hear their quiet declarations of loving each other simply and sweetly even. For the first time ever. It was important to hear those words in canon. I don't want to fanwank EVERYTHING.

The montage is kind of a fanfic-ish thing I think. Or just ...so overdone.

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

I think her comment about making the same mistake when she was with Zak refers to something other than what they gave us in the flashback

I totally agree with this.

I dunno, I just think we got plenty of Kara pushing in the aired version without really driving her into "over the top vengeful banshee" mode. The shouting makes me cringe in a good, embarrased-for-them way; the taunting makes me cringe in an "Oh girl, please just stop--stop now" kind of way.

[shah-of-blah.livejournal.com]

Kara is never unlikable. I know not what you speak of. :)
Haha, I am in complete agreement. She's a bitch. So what? I'm not a Kara fan because she's so nice.

And I LOVE that line she says to Athena, about Lee never knowing when to make a move, and always making the same mistake. Says so much about how she views their dynamic.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah the montage was proof of their importance within the show and not as brother/sister/jocks relationship but in a romantic sense.

I totally agree about Kara the taunting in the aired version was a bit much but in UBEX it was downright horrible. I know she wanted him back, wanted some kind of reaction, but it almost got me to the point, where I thought it would be more humane to leave him and Dee be.(Obviously I'm also happy that she didn't, but I think she needed to dial it down.)

The comment about Lee not knowing when to make a move, didn't ring true to me either, because I didn't think Kara left, because she was already in too deep with Sam. I think at that stage Sam was a convenient escape route. I never really understood that line.

[cosetteferaud.livejournal.com]

Ok, my take ;) I think that all the NewCap lovemaking and shouting to the skies is a little bit cheesy as a whole --in fact, when I first saw it, all the yelling made me cringe a little bit (right now I consider it endearing, though). And even though I love their quiet I love yous, I felt it was a little too much after all the shouting... I still love it anyways, mainly because despite all the corniness we got to see a very beautiful and honest moment between them (ok, and I don't know if I am making much sense, but that's how I see it ;)).

Does Kara say the line at the end in UB "I think things just got more complicated" or is that only in UBEX?

It's the UBEX version :)

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not a big fan of UBEX either. I read Lee's line as he didn't know the extent of his feelings for her and that doen's make sense to me after the hangar bay arguement over baltar and the way he kissed her after she came back, you can't tell me he never reflected on these incidents. Although I do like the other reading mentioned above!

I don't mind them mentioning Zak, but they sort of discarded him straight away, which isn't true to his role in both their lives.

I'm also not a fan of Kara purposefully mentioning their night together within earshot of Dee, it seems unnecessarily cruel and since she was the one who left him, really selfish.

Do you mean the Lee/Dee scene in Captain's Hand? I think they cut a lot of L/D scenes and tbh, I'd rather they left some in, just to make their relationship more plausible and show more of how and why Lee cared for her. I think it would have helped make Lee a little more sympathetic in his treatment of her.

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I don't mind them mentioning Zak either, it's just that they totally dropped him as a narrative point after 'Act of Contrition.' And that really bugs me. I always felt like he should've been a way bigger part of the Kara/Lee psyche. To just name drop him like that in UB with no setup... I dunno, it just doesn't work for me.

I'm also not a fan of Kara purposefully mentioning their night together within earshot of Dee, it seems unnecessarily cruel and since she was the one who left him, really selfish.

Yeah, exactly. It's just way too much. Almost like the writers were trying super-extra hard to make her an unsympathetic character. I think Kara's got way more sense than that. She can slice and dice with the best of them, but she also has more than enough common sense to know when to push the restraint button.

I meant the scene at the end where Kara's like... "I'll leave you guys alone now." Just-- ick. Ruins such a good pilot/huggy moment.

[(Anonymous)]

I totally agree re Zak, they almost forgot about him and then they brought him back for the finale, and tried to make a point about how their betrayal ruined them for all times. Maybe if they'd have made more of point about his importance and K/L's guilt, I would have felt more compelled to buy into that..

It just doesn't make sense for Kara to almost try and brake L/D up, as if she wanted to have Lee alone and unhappy. I don't think that's who she was.

[rayruz.livejournal.com]

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who doesn't worship UBEX!!!! THANK YOU!

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

You and me, bb. We're totally in this boat together. : )