Daily Pilots Post: Hey, I Know You!

[ecstaticdance.livejournal.com]

I know you've done it.  Seen a couple in a movie or TV show or read them in a book and said, "HEY!  THAT'S LEE/KARA!"  It makes sense, in a lot of ways.  As mlsky pointed out a few weeks back over in sci_fi_shipper's Write and Gripe community, the two of them are archetypal.

With Tara, we discussed movies that you wish would be made for Katee and Jamie to act in, or could see Katee and Jamie cast in, because the parts scream for their chemistry and/or remind us so much of Kara and Lee.  I expect there will be some overlap here, but I want to hear about book (or play or other works of literature) characters that remind you of Pilots.  Maybe, for whatever reason, they'll never end up on a screen, or the casting wouldn't work if it did, but these characters scream Lee and Kara for you.

Examples:

Eve and Rourk from J.D. Robb's In Death series.  She's a feisty, broken, beautiful woman with a badly cut, dirty blond hair and hazel eyes.  He's a suave, sophisticated, wealthy, dark haired man with his own troubled past and a set of piercing blue eyes.  His accent holds a hint of Ireland, but the chemistry between them comes closer to the climate of Equador.  And they both know about kicking ass, then taking names.  I could go on, but I think you get the point.  They're Kara and Lee in NYC in 2050.  I may be off by a bit on the year.

Kat and Gail/Peeta from Suzanne Collins' Hunger Games series.  This one isn't quite as obvious, but it's close.  Kat resembles Kara in so many ways it's difficult to count, and I maintain that both Gail and Peeta have different aspects of Lee's personality.  Peeta is the idealist and Gail is the fierce hunter.  These kids are younger, and I think less broken that Kara and Lee were, but looking at them through that lens makes for an interesting study in what might have been when Pilots were younger.

Matrim Cauthon and Tuon (The Daughter of The Nine Moons) from Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series (which is being completed posthumously by Brandon Sanderson, using notes and outlines RJ made before his death, for those who were curious).  This is easily the most abstracted comparison example I'm going to use.  She's a petite, dark-skinned princess and he's a brash gambler and reluctant, if highly successful, general.  But when you dig down, you see it.  They're drawn to each other from the moment they meet.  In this case, prophesy actually throws them together and sees them married, but there's a constant push and pull and vying for dominance between them that reminds me of the dance our beloved Pilots shared.  She's aloof and critical and cold and fierce (and a shockingly good fighter), but her smiles transform her.  He's crass and irreverent, macho and insane and luckier than any one person has any business being.  Anyone else would have died pulling the stunts he pulls.  Last I saw, though, circumstances had drawn them apart again, despite their marriage.  And without even a goodbye kiss.  They aren't the main pairing in the series, but they're the one I like best.

So, where have YOU seen reincarnations of our pilots?

Comments

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

Ooh Books. My favorite topic! I can't wait to see people's responses for this one.

I think I've already talked about my main two ad nauseum, which is Hunger Games' Kat/Gale (I understand how some people maybe kinda see Peeta as being somewhat Lee-like but for me it's all Gale. He totally is a younger Lee in my head.) and Rob and Cassie from Tana French's In the Woods, who are buddy cops and in some ways Rob is the broken one and Cassie is the fairly well-adjusted one, but she has a lot of Kara's sass and verve, and the way their relationship is described and eventually evolves reminds me of pilots and their fierce partnership and very messy feelings.

ETA: Another quote from In the Woods that screams Kara to me:

"I had learned early to assume something dark and lethal hidden at the heart of anything I loved. When I couldn't find it, I responded, bewildered and wary, in the only way I knew how: by planting it there myself. (307)"
— Tana French (In the Woods)


Heh my husband loves the Wheel of Time series. I'll have to ask him if he thinks those two ever remind him of Kara and Lee. Oh and you just maybe made the Eve Dallas series appeal to me for the first time ever. Maybe. Heh.

[daybreak777.livejournal.com]

Wuthering Heights. I should finally do that book discussion post about Wuthering Heights comparing Kara and Lee to Cathy and Heathcliff. Maybe in May. :-) (It's been a year since I had the idea.) I think of this scene for after that New Caprican night. Maybe not right after but at some point after. Names adjusted for pilot-ness.

You teach how cruel you've been - cruel and false. Why did you despise me? Why did you betray your own heart, Kara? I have not one word of comfort - you deserve this. You have killed yourself. Yes, you may kiss me and, cry; and wring out my kisses and tears. They'll blight you - they'll damn you. You loved me - then what right had you to leave me? What right - answer me - for the poor fancy you had for Anders? Because misery, degradation, and death, and nothing that the gods or the Cylons could inflict would have parted us, you of your own will, did it. I have not broken your heart - you have broken it - and in breaking it, you have broken mine. So much the worse for me, that I am strong. Do I want to live? What kind of living will it be when you - oh, gods! Would you like to live with your soul in the grave?

Exactly. What right had she to leave him? Ah, characters at cross purposes. Gosh, I love that novel. And pilots. :-)

[lyras.livejournal.com]

Ooh, Mat and Tuon - what an interesting comparison. It's funny that Mat is my least favourite of the main three male characters: I hate arrogance in men. But if you put a lot of his qualities into a woman's body and call her Starbuck, it turns out I love her!

I'll have to look into the Hunger Games books.

[owldark.livejournal.com]

OMG. I am a huge fan of Wuthering Heights. However, I had never actually thought about the comparisons between Lee & Kara before though. *flails a wee bit*

That passage is so beautiful, and I love how is speaks to to Kara & Lee's relationship. The way Kathy/Kara leave, you're right, what right did she have? POOR LEE/HEATHCLIFF.

Have you seen the BBC 'updated' version of Wuthering Heights, called Sparkhouse? Here's a link to the BBC page. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/drama/sparkhouse/) Parts of it work better than others, but the basic premise is that the gender roles are switched - so that the Heathcliff role becomes the female role - Carol - and the Cathy role is taken by the male character, Andrew. Carol, as 'Heathcliff' is really well written - and very Kara like! Passionate but fucked up and vicious and a complete mess and wonderful. <3

[daybreak777.livejournal.com]

I know the characters aren't a direct match and I did start to reread WH to make a more in-depth comparison and just got busy last year and didn't finish that post-in-progress. I should, though! But yes, I do like the idea that Kara knew she loved this man, and got so scared and misguided that she separated herself from him of her own free will. I love her like pie, but gods.

I haven't heard of Sparkhouse before! I will have to check it out. Yes, passionate and fucked up and a complete mess sounds very famililar. :-)

[owldark.livejournal.com]

You should absolutely do the post! I'd love to read it. More love for Wuthering Heights & BSG is never a bad thing. :D

I love her like pie, but gods. Right there with you. I can't remember my exact reaction... but I'm pretty sure it was: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! KARA! NO, BABY. Mind, I knew it was all going to go tits up once Lee started up with the love yelling... I just kept thinking baby steps, Lee, baby steps...

Def check it out - like I said, it isn't perfect, but I do really like how Carol is written, very awesome. Plus, I can never really find an adaptation of Wuthering Heights that really works for me. So much so that I've been thinking about having a stab at writing a script of my own!

Also: your icon is HOT.

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

It's funny, I saw an article the other day where they were compared to Wuthering Heights but the writer insisted Kara was Heathcliff and Lee was Cathy. (Is that what you were thinking? Hee.)

I have never actually read WH, so I know nothing!

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

I totally fail at remembering anything, but I wanted to stop by and say Hi! This is a very interesting post and I can't wait to come back later and see what others are recommending.

[daybreak777.livejournal.com]

Maybe I will! I'll see. :-) Thanks for the encouragement!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! KARA! NO, BABY.
Hee! We are so protective of her even when she's wrong. This was SO WRONG but I completely understand why she did it. But still.

baby steps, Lee, baby steps...
Yep. He couldn't help it, though. He was so in love with her and could finally show it. Aww. *pets them*

I'll check it out!

I call this icon "Pilots together forever". That's how I see them. :-)

[daybreak777.livejournal.com]

Ooh, interesting take! There is a lot of genderswitching going on in the L/K relationship. I could see how people might think that. Heathcliff was always a screw-up and Cathy came from the upper-crust, I suppose. (Though according to Caprica the Adamas are all former mobsters, so I dunno.)

There does seem to be a class imbalance with both couples. But Cathy was so young and impetuous and I think she thought Heathcliff would sort of always be there waiting for her. She reminds me strongly of a young, season 1 Kara. Thinking Heathcliff would wait for her even though she married someone else. And I think Heathcliff married someone else too to move up in the world a bit but also to spite Cathy. Wrong reasons for their marriages, both of them. Healthcliff isn't like Lee in personality. But in love? In loved they both loved their women to the exclusion of all else. Both kept it hidden but you could see it if you paid attention.

I won't say more in case you ever read it. :-) Oh, and do you have a link to that article?

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

Interesting.

The article was an old one from the LA Times about the auctions last year: http://blogs.laweekly.com/stylecouncil/events/going-once-going-twice-frakkin/

Relevant part is: Look, it's like this: Starbuck and Apollo were never going to end up together, people. We dig the hot Sackhoff/Bamber chemistry as much as anyone, but they were the epitome of star-crossed lovers, burning torridly in the wake of their angst like Wuthering Heights in space. (He's Cathy and she's Heathcliff, clearly.) Still, for those who remain all torn up over the lack of a stroll into the sunset together, you can get Kara's Caprica Buccaneers jacket and Lee's Viper squadron bomber jacket, put one inside the other and hang them in your closet, Brokeback Mountain-style. Awww.

[daybreak777.livejournal.com]

Aww, indeed. So sad that we'd have to ship their clothes.

I'd rather have Kara' grey hoodie. :-) I have my image of pilots together and that works for me for now.

[ninjamonkey73.livejournal.com]

Wow... That really works. I've never managed to make it far into or through that type of literature (Austen, the Brontes, et al). I like your edits. :)

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

Hee! This gender-switch is reminding me of my "Jane Eyre" crack!fic idea in which Lee is Jane and Kara is Mr. Rochester and Sam is Bertha, except that instead of being crazy, he's lounging about in a tub in Kara's attic :P

I actually LOATHE Heathcliffe and Cathy for how destructive they were to everyone around them, but OTOH, that sort of fits Lee/Kara to a T, doesn't it?

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

LOL! In a tub! INNATUB! The world's longest bubble bath and he keeps calling downstairs and interrupting the hot Kara/Lee sexytimes so she can bring him a facecloth, a rubber duckie, more bubbles, etc.

[daybreak777.livejournal.com]

I'm glad people like this comparison. Oh, it makes me want to reread the novel and translate other passages into pilotness! And it makes me very shippily passionate each time I read it. Emily Bronte knew romance, all right. :-)

Thanks Jen, for such an awesome topic!

[daybreak777.livejournal.com]

Sam is Bertha, except that instead of being crazy, he's lounging about in a tub in Kara's attic :P
Hee! And spouting Hybrid-speak that Lee can't understand! Perfect!

I actually LOATHE Heathcliffe and Cathy for how destructive they were to everyone around them, but OTOH, that sort of fits Lee/Kara to a T, doesn't it?
I know that Healthcliff and Cathy are very doomed and destructive, but that love. Sometimes it's too big to be, like normal and sane, you know?

I can't help it. I'm a shipper. I love the LOVE. :-D

[ecstaticdance.livejournal.com]

But if you put a lot of his qualities into a woman's body and call her Starbuck, it turns out I love her!

Right?! It's total gender-reversal, but the parallels are amazing.

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

Great suggestions, all.

And of course, who can forget Pride & Prejudice? *g*

[ecstaticdance.livejournal.com]

Another quote from In the Woods that screams Kara to me:

Wow. Yeah. Definitely Kara.

[ecstaticdance.livejournal.com]

And you all have managed the impossible, I think. I had to read Wuthering Heights for AP English over the summer before my senior year of high school, and HATED it. Like, really loathed. Now, I think I might actually want to re-read it. See if the extra years I've earned and my love of pilots make any difference.

[ninjamonkey73.livejournal.com]

Good luck. I tried to revisit Pride & Prejudice in adulthood (after loving the BBC mini), but I still can't read it. In high school, I agonized through Jane Eyre for a book report, but no matter how good people tell me these books are- can't do it.

Although the piloty goodness apparent in WH makes me consider getting the audio book for the car. :)

[innibis.livejournal.com]

I see a lot of them (and Zak) in East of Eden in the Caleb Trask/Aron Trask/Abra Bacon sort-of-triangle. I think I've talked about this before - probably with Bee.

East of Eden isn't a romance, it's a story that parallels the fall of man with the theme of timshel (free will) vs. the sins of the fathers. Caleb and Aron Trask are the Cain and Abel set up, so the focus is mostly on their relationship, but Abra falls in love with Aron (Zak) first. Aron is the favored son and is literaly too good for this world. (he enlists because of Caleb - much too long to go into.) When Aron leaves, Abra finds herself falling in love with the heavily flawed and struggling Caleb.

Caleb and Abra share a love for Aron and a father figure. There are mother issues, Caleb is, literally, the son of a murderous whore. Their love is tangled with guilt and questions about fate and overcoming the sins of the past, but they begin to rise above it as they embrace their identities of individuals, and their legacy of Free Will (something that BSG obviously didn't let happen at the end.) You don't have a tied with a bow ending for them, but the love is there and the will is there, so you are given to understand that, as with all else, Caleb and Abra making it will be entirely their choice.

[daybreak777.livejournal.com]

Where is she? Not there - not in heaven - not perished - where? Oh! you said you cared nothing for my suffering! And I pray one prayer - I repeat it till my tongue stiffens - Kara Thrace, may you not rest, as long as I am living! You said I killed you - haunt me then! The murdered do haunt their murderers. I believe - I know that ghosts have wandered the world. Be with me always - take any form - drive me mad! only do not leave me in this abyss, where I cannot find you! Oh gods! It is unutterable! I cannot live without my life! I cannot live without my soul!

Not a direct comparison, but close enough for me. Not only do I want to reread the book (I have it with me but no time, no time) but now I want to write something about Kara haunting Lee on Earth 2 or something. But I have NO TIME. Maybe someone else might write it!

Them being separated is completely unutterable. Sometimes I can't really believe that actually happened.

[ecstaticdance.livejournal.com]

Oh, interesting! **makes an addition to her to-read list**

I kinda like that the book isn't actually a romance, too. It's interesting to see these kinds of relationships set secondary to the larger story.