no_takebacks | DPP: Show Yourself!!

Welcome to this week's DPP, everyone!

I'm going to kick this off with something we haven't had at all this year (WAY too long if you ask me), i.e.

THE FRIENDING MEME!!!!!!!!

I've noticed some new faces among the comments in the last few months, so whether you're new to the comm or a returning friendly, consider this the Shipper Nation Roll Call aka our very own Bat-Signal and show yourself - we want to get to know you all (or know you all over again)!

(all you have to do is copy/paste the code below into your comment, and answer the questions - as many or as few of them as you'd like)

Name/Callsign:
Age/Location (if you want):
When did you start watching BSG?
Why do you ship K/L?
Do you ship anyone else in the show?
How did you find this comm?

Favorite character(s):
Least favourite character(s)
Favourite episode:
Favourite scene:
Favourite eyefrak:
Favourite handclasp/handshake:
Favourite pilotkiss:
Favourite Lee!Hair:
Favourite Kara!Hair:
Favourite pilotfic:
When it comes to pilots fandom, are you more into (reading or writing) fic, meta, or just plain squee? Or do you prefer other fanworks for them (fanmixes, graphics etc).

Other fandoms:
Favourite book:
Favourite movie:
Favourite tv show (currently airing):
Favourite tv show(completed):

What do you post on your journal?
Are you open to adding new friends to your FList or are you just super private and prefer to keep things locked down until you get to know people properly?
List your Twitter and chat (AIM, gChat, Yahoo) if you'd like
Three random facts about you:
If you could meet any person (dead, alive, real, fictional, apart from pilots of course) who would you choose?
Anything else you'd like to share?

feel free to back up your answers with pics, gifs and all that jazz - evidence of why stuff is your favourite is very much welcome :)

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

im-ridiculous.livejournal.com

Hi! I've been lurking round these parts a little, and this is too good an opportunity to actually say hi and introduce myself... so... Hi! *waves*

Name/Callsign: Hi, I'm Ridiculous
Age/Location: Australian
When did you start watching BSG? Started and finished in January this year, so I am incredibly grateful to find people still talking about pilots! I'm supernew around these LJ parts, it's all new ground for me discussion-wise and I don't want to be annoying and make people cover old ground... but if you DO want to cover old ground, I'm your girl.
Why do you ship K/L? Because I cannot understand how it is humanly possible not to? I mean... LOOK AT THEM.
Do you ship anyone else in the show? Nope. Happy for Adama and Roslin, yay Helo/Athena, whatever. But ship? No. Not enough shipper energy left after the emotional investment in K/L.
How did you find this comm? workerbee73 sent me (thankyou Bee!)

Favorite character(s): Lee and Kara (obvs)
Least favourite character(s) I loved Laura in the beginning, but by the end.... not so much. I'm still a bit sad about that. But who am I kidding... for the shipper in me? Sam.
Favourite episode: Hard to say, but probably Unfinished Business (the original version)
Least-favourite episode: Unfinished Business (the extended version)
Favourite scene: Too hard, too many. Today? Kara comes back from Caprica with the Arrow of Apollo.
Favourite eyefrak: Miniseries - Lee back from the dead
Favourite pilotkiss: Brig? Even though it kills me to rewatch now given how it's all gunna end... Kills me. Damn you Ron Moore.
Favourite Lee!Hair: Short. Definitely short.
Favourite Kara!Hair: Season 2 ponytail.
Favourite pilotfic: CAVEPILOTS!! Stumbling across that (thankyou google) is the whole reason I have an LJ at all. It and Bee were my introduction to fandom and my recovery program post-*poof*. I'll love Cavepilots forever.
When it comes to pilots fandom, are you more into...? Reading. Way too intimidated (and uncreative) to even contemplate writing anything. Talking/meta though. I'll talk til the cows come home if you want me to ;)

Other fandoms: The only fandom I'm remotely active in is Avengers C/N (again, thankyou Bee ;P). But I love many and sundry things, including West Wing, Community, Doctor Who, Downton Abbey, Game of Thrones, Harry Potter, and, I think, The Newsroom. Jury's still out, but I think it's winning me over.

What do you post on your journal? I'm still working that out. So far it's been a combination of vent and fic. And I'm as surprised as anyone that the fic happened...
Are you open to adding new friends to your FList? My attitude so far is pretty much 'I'll friend all the people who want to be friends'. Come on down!
Three random facts about you: I've moved 13 times in the past five years. I lived in France for a while and speak French (increasingly badly. Sigh.) I started my dream job four months ago, so I don't think I'll be moving again for a while :)
Anything else you'd like to share? Just that you guys rock :)

From:

winegums.livejournal.com

Hey bb! So nice to see you, and don't worry about the rehashing of old stuff, we kind of love it here. I mean, I only landed here last year, and I'm pretty sure that all the things I wanted to yak everyone's ear off about had already been discussed, but no one minds talking, when we're talking about pilots :)

I actually really feel your answers about the shipping of other couples and UB. I know I said I ship Adama/Roslin, but by my normal Shipper Standards they don't quite qualify. And Unfinished Business extended spends a bit too much time on people who aren't Lee and Kara for me to really like it/is kind of heavy-handed, though I love it for the (very little) extra pilots that we do get. Maybe someone should take the two versions and make sure we get the 'I love you's and all the pilotstuff from UBEX, but keep the focus on pilots properly like UB did, I would like that.

And 13 times in five years? That's a lot of times to move, it sounds kind of awesome (if a little hectic), lol.

From:

im-ridiculous.livejournal.com

Well, thankyou for having me! And thankyou for the rehash permission... I may just take you up on that sometime... now, for instance...

RE: Adama/Roslin... yeah, if I feel anything about them at all, I guess I'm happy that they're happy. Briefly. Sort of. ... You know what I mean. But to be honest, I just can't bring myself to get that invested in them (or anyone else). And Laura really was grating on me by the end of the run, so I just couldn't really get on board. Just *shrugs* meh. Y'know?

As for UBEX... man. I only got my hands on it recently, and my feelings about that episode are... strong. But I have also been reliably informed that my feelings are very much the minority view in pilots fandom, and I don't want to shoot my mouth off...so I won't labour the point here. I've recently written over on my LJ about some of my issues with the ep, and if you're interested I'd love to hear your thoughts. Essentially, for me, while many things about that extended ep are dodgy, what I hate MOST is the extra shippy stuff, because having her run after all that happens is just....... I can't even. I don't buy that she would, and I can't even. It's like RDM is trying to force me to hate my characters, because holy shit, the character assassination. And it doesn't help that I love the original cut so much, for its subtlety and its power and its punch-to-the-gut-ness and its brilliant resolution with the "I missed you"s, so I'm also sad from a storytelling perspective that they made it so bloated in the recut. Anyway... I am ridiculous and noone. Please don't hate me!!

Thirteen times is a lot of times, yes, yes it is. But it has been awesome - I've got one of those jobs where you do tend to move a lot, especially when you're just getting started. Settling now though, which is nice too!

Edited Date: 2012-08-22 05:31 am (UTC)

From:

winegums.livejournal.com

I still haven't figured out whether I'm unwilling to return to UBEX because the extra pilotstuff just hurts too much to watch (the fact that it has the extra conversation out on New Caprica and them actually saying 'I love you' to each other is one of the few things I unreservedly love about it, I wish the aired cut had kept that stuff in) or because I don't like it.

The Sam/Dee stuff, though, that can just go. I'm glad the aired version cut that out, because it's so superfluous to the main story here, which is pilots. And YES, the original version's ending >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UBEX, I was in tears by the end, it couldn't have been more perfect. Though it is kind of amazing that they made two versions of the same episode with such different vibes about them, using essentially the same footage - just goes to show what good editing can do!

(also there's no reason to apologise for having a different opinion bb, we all disagree on lots of things here, that is part of what discussion is for after all :))

From:

im-ridiculous.livejournal.com

:) Thank you, I just... y'know, I'm new, and it's rude to walk into someone else's party and start offending people! But since you (sort of) offer...

I have all kinds of storytelling/editing/bloatedness problems with the extended ep, but the character stuff is just distressing.

The Sam/Dee stuff, though, that can just go
God yes. I was always pretty 'get out of the way pls' about Dee, but UBEX makes me hate her. What self-loathing must a woman have to marry a man SHE KNOWS to be in love with someone else, but who proposed to her because he just found out the someone-else just married someone else? And then I remember that she's only a fictional character and that actually my hatred is better directed at RDM for making a woman make such an unbelieveable masochistic and self-destructive decision. And Sam... for me, Sam's just a two dimensional character with the appeal of a soggy paper cup. So the less the better.

But the pilots stuff... man. I love the idea of them having that honest conversation (LOVE it). But the fact that they have her run after THAT conversation makes me want to scream. And I don't believe she'd do it. I believe it in the original, even though it's a kick in the gut, because I can believe she'd think that shouted/dared/drunken love confessions are not nearly enough to believe or take a gamble on. And the fight in the original is brilliantly cathartic and absolutely feels like enough to bring them back together... but it just doesn't feel like enough in the extended version. Having her run from him after that soul-bearing.. I just... I can't. It's brutal and it makes me like Kara so much less and I really, REALLY resent being made to feel like that. I will usually take any and all of the shipper feels I can get, but I can't take the applecart when I know what's going to happen next. It's almost vicious in its pointlessness to include that when we aleady know it's all about to be ripped away from them.

/rant. So... yeah.... I have UBEX feels... and they are best dealt with, for me, by pretending it never got recut.

And I'll leave you alone now!! :S

From:

winegums.livejournal.com

UB is bad enough for the heart, but after I watched it for the first time I've never been able to get through it without a bottle of something - if UBEX was the only cut in existence, trust me I'd have pickled my liver LONG ago because it's just so devastating and I have never been able to make up my mind about whether that is a good thing or a bad thing :( And it doesn't help that UB ends on a note of reconciliation for their past, while UBEX has a nod towards their (even more messy) future, I just want my catharsis without worrying about what's going to get in their way in the future, y'know?

Dee is one of the great character tragedies of BSG, in my eyes. She starts off as this level-headed, no-bs-taking woman who's got her own issues to deal with.....until she marries Lee and turns into Doormat Wife. Though I did feel that at least that marriage was acknowledged to be fucked up - she wanted to be a part of the Adama family and was stuck with a serious case of hero-worship for the old man, he simply didn't want to be alone and they both knew they were settling and had fundamental differences in outlook. I was glad she recovered her spine and left Lee for daring to put Laura on the stand (not that I agree with her, I'm just glad that she acted according to her own moral code on something once more).

And do not even get me started on Sam or how they keep trying to make him relevant for things other than being Kara's lover (with the purpose of strengthening his position as Kara's love interest) and failing completely since he's not a character, he is a list of ticks on a production checklist for How To Make A Guy Look As Good As Possible In Two Minutes - hot? check. Heroic? Resistance for five minutes, check. All sporty and really into Kara? Check. Puts up with all she dishes out? CHECK. I don't see how anyone can watch BSG and not realise that Kara's into Sam not because he's her True Love or anything of the sort, but because she thought he was dead and she has serious issues with feeling guilty about dead lovers/ dead people in her life.

So yeah, UBEX makes me want to tear my own hair out in places but little things like Kara dorkily dancing by herself and watching Lee, or the extra head-fumbling eyefrak he gives her in the ring (it's in the icon in my previous comment) make me wish they just didn't have to be stuck in...this.

Plus, the music in UB is better. Just saying.

From:

im-ridiculous.livejournal.com

YES!! So much yes to all of this.

while UBEX has a nod towards their (even more messy) future
Oh my goodness, I hadn't even THOUGHT of that. I think I was just in so much emotional meltdown by the end I didn't even register. But yes. Exactly. It's not enough that he tries to assassinate my characters' characters, he takes away my catharsis! GAHHH!! Who hurt you Ron, that you became so vindictive??

I just want my catharsis without worrying about what's going to get in their way in the future, y'know?
I do. I do know, winegums. I KNOW VERY MUCH. *deep breaths*

And your Sam stuff is spot on too - we are so on the same page here. You know what else is funny, is that they try to make it look like what she needs is someone who'll put up with her shit, when it is so patently obvious that what she really needs is someone who calls her on her shit, who doesn't let her get away with it, but who loves her, and unconditionally, 100 per cent has her back anyway, regardless of her shit. ie, Lee. Stop trying to sell me on Sam, Later Eps! I am not an idiot and I am not that easily fooled! You can't pretend that the preceeding episodes never happened! Jeeezus...

You make a really good point about Dee. And I think that's a real contributor to my hate for UBEX - it completely destroyed Dee for me by making her so complicit in her own emotional destruction. Ultimately I find her masochism in marrying Lee unbelievable. Like, I don't buy it as a character choice. Be with him even though he's in love with Kara, sure. I get that. We've all been places that aren't necessarily good for us. But you don't marry the guy and you certainly don't go from 'ok, so my boyfriend is clearly completely in love with someone else and I know now that I will never be able to compete with that' to 'yes I will marry you' in the space of one two-minute conversation, especially when the 'yes' is qualified with '...and enjoy you for as long as she will let me have you'!!

And yes, I guess I'm glad she left him in the end, but particularly in a UBEX universe, knowing she knew EXACTLY where things stood from the very beginning, I cannot BELIEVE it was him putting Laura on the stand, and not him HAVING AN AFFAIR WITH THE WOMAN HE PREFERRED OVER HER ALL ALONG, that finally made her pack up her stuff and leave. I mean for goodness sake, HAVE SOME FREAKIN SELF-RESPECT WOMAN!!! AGHHHH!!!!

if UBEX was the only cut in existence, trust me I'd have pickled my liver LONG ago
Yuh-huh. I guess we should be grateful for small mercies, huh? :/

From:

winegums.livejournal.com

I can even live with Kara cutting and running after that heartfelt and honest conversation, because it's very in character for her to be TERRIFIED of her own feelings and regress straight back into denial (the 'we were drunk even if we were completely lucid and understood what we were saying' added to the 'this is never going to work out, what was I thinking, I'll end up killing him'), but what really annoys me about pilots' characters in UBEX is the present-day stuff.

Especially that scene where Kara confronts Lee about not him denying a married-couples' billet to her and Sam - I never understood that, because it contradicts everything about their characters that we've seen so far including their characters in this very episode - Kara is quite obvious about not wanting Sam for anything but sex/having VERY mixed feelings about the very idea of getting back together with him in a 'real marriage' (so why, if she's asked for a billet for the two of them, would she be that cold to him in the opening scene, pretty much making it clear they are nothing but frak buddies?) and Lee repeatedly makes it clear that he wants nothing at all to do with Kara or her love life (so why would he be vindictive enough to deny the request?)

This show tried to sell me on more than one of these five-minutes-in-the-making couples as OTPs/a Real Thing That Should Happen*, I had to snort in EoJ when Sam said he knew his wife. I cannot for the life of me understand why people take that line seriously and literally, because as we saw just two episodes prior to this, he didn't even know WHY exactly she married him!

And as for Dee, I think she idealised Lee a great deal, even as she saw his flaws - she could deal with him cheating on her with the love of his life as long as he ultimately gave in to his own guilt (I think him having to order Dee to rescue Kara just set the seal on it) and chose her instead. But with the trial, coming as it did after Kara's death and Lee becoming an emotional zombie and then proceeding to chuck everything she values about him - the military, the idea of being an Adama/like his father, and even using his principles to rally around to the 'wrong' side......it kind of makes sense.

And sorry for the repeated edits, but I am so glad we are on the same page about Sam. He's nice and fun for two episodes, but superfluous for the rest, and frankly Kara's emotional state over him getting shot in the later episodes is just classic Kara Dead-Guy I-Couldn't-Save-Him Guilt Issues. Like Bee says, it's easier for Kara to give in and let out her feelings about a guy who's dead/as good as dead (or she thinks so, anyway) than to deal with the real-life ones right in front of her, because the dead guy can't actively cause her pain anymore. Which is why I don't buy Goo Tub Sam as some indicator that Kara and Sam should be OTPs, because look what it's based on - Kara just doesn't have the self-awareness to realise it, is all. And yes, she doesn't need someone taking all her crap either - many fans don't like Lee because he actually acts like a normal person and not some perfect, forgiving god/actually calls her on it, but that is why I love them together. :)

*non-pilots example: Tigh/Caprica Six

Edited Date: 2012-08-23 12:02 pm (UTC)

From:

im-ridiculous.livejournal.com

Winegums, you are on fire.
but what really annoys me about pilots' characters in UBEX is the present-day stuff
err... YES!!! Holy hell the contradictory everything! It doesn't make sense!!! And it makes them both so needlessly vicious and vindictive. And it just doesn't. make. sense. It's like, um, have you met your characters? Have you watched your show? Have you even read the rest of this episode. No really, wtf?! Ugh.

I had to snort in EoJ when Sam said he knew his wife
You and me both!! I mean, come on!! You know her, Sam? Dude. You had a couple of days on Caprica and a year under totally false pretences on New Caprica before shit went down. That's it. Once the occupation was over and you were back together, things were already clearly not ok. You do not know Kara. You have an idealised version of Kara on a pedastal. With apologies to GRR Martin, you know nothing Samuel Anders.

DeadGuyIssues, GooBathOTPStupidity.... Yeah. We are SO on the same page - you edit as much as you like!! And I'M so glad we're on the same page about THIS: yes, she doesn't need someone taking all her crap either - many fans don't like Lee because he actually acts like a normal person and not some perfect, forgiving god/actually calls her on it, but that is why I love them together. Because ... YES!! I have to admit I've been quite confused to discover that feeling about Lee in fandom. I mean... maybe it's just me, but love isn't about enabling your partner's self-destructiveness, endlessly forgiving it or allowing them to lose themselves in it either. It's about holding a mirror up to it, helping them recognise it, BEING THERE to absolutely support them through it, and ultimately, helping them to overcome it. Which is (and maybe it's only in my head, maybe I'm overinterpreting, it's happened before) exactly what Lee offers her in UBEX. But RDM can't let them have that, and I just.... can't. Because I think that really IS what they offer each other (because she calls him on his shit too, of course), and it's why I love them too!! I'm so glad that's how you see them as well :)

Tigh/Caprica Six
......................................yes. >:[
*head desk*

From:

winegums.livejournal.com

Lee gets a lot of fandom hate, what with people saying he's 'too goody-goody' for them....which is weird, because we're shown time and again how flawed he is.

Lee/Dee and Kara/Sam may LOOK like the more ideal couples on paper (endlessly forgiving, not without feelings for each other), but I will never buy them as OTPs, I refuse to have that wool pulled over my eyes.

And I think one thing UBEX did right was including Lee's morning-after proposal scene, it makes it absolutely crystal clear that their marriages were not so much a conscious choice of their other partners but more a rejection of each other - that much is consistent with their characters and that situation, even if Dee is playing martyr and annoying me.

From:

im-ridiculous.livejournal.com

which is weird, because we're shown time and again how flawed he is
*highfives you* also, *slowclap*

This has been fun winegums! Thank you for indulging my rehashing :)
We must do this again sometime!!