DPP: BSG Without Pilots

[winegums.livejournal.com]

Hello, Shipper Nation, and welcome to this week's DPP!

Today's question is one that I suspect very few of us (self included) like to think about too often, or at all: what if there were no pilots?

BSG is a big show, with a massive cast to match. Our pilots, much as we love them and important as they were, were just two of those, and their story was one of many (still a big part of it, though). But what if they hadn't been part of the cast at all? What would that show have been like? I mean, think of a miniseries without this, for starters:




I guess the flipside of the question is, what do you think pilots brought to the show, and the story, that made them - and the show, with them - so special? And would you have taken an interest in BSG if they hadn't existed?

Comments

some more rambling

[winegums.livejournal.com]

We KNOW pilots are exceptional among fictional couples, for the epicness of their relationship, the depth of their connection, the complexity of their individual personalities and (because I am shallow) the levels of pretty, but I remember being intrigued by the premise of the show even before I knew of the existence of either pilot.

And it really doesn't help matters that BSG really did keep itself stocked with young leads/couples at first. We started out with (in addition to pilots) Chief/Boomer, Dee/Billy, Helo/Athena, arguably Gaius/Caprica Six - and even Cally could have been ripe to get her own love interest at some point.

I'd never have shipped any of them the way I do pilots (because they were the first ones to hit me with that stick, and MAN was it a wallop) but I do think I'd have at least liked some of them together onscreen, and focused much more on the political/abstract part of things. That plus watching Adama and Roslin, because they were in fact more interesting than any of the other young leads on here. And I would have loved that show too, but it wouldn't have my heart the way BSG now does - I'd never have got as emotionally tangled/ultimately devastated by it if it hadn't been for pilots.

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

I think there would have had to have been a Starbuck and Apollo, or at least a CAG and a flight instructor/fleet's top pilot for them to narratively tell a lot of the stories.

Alternatively, the emotional quotient they bring with their various personalities would have been important. A by-the-book type (on the surface at least) who can do things like force Bill and Laura to have elections and be a liasion between govt. and military was important. And having a wild card in your show, someone who can be the catalyst for unexpected actions and stories is also important (I made a post about this (http://karathracelives.livejournal.com/155746.html) at karathracelives a few weeks ago actually after a TV critic online pointed out how important a rule-bucker--and specifically a Starbuck--is to a drama like BSG.) Without Starbuck, there'd be no Apollo, no arrow, no Kobol/path to Earth, no Helo/Sharon, no Resistance if she hadn't followed her instincts to go against orders on various occasions.

I can't imagine the show without them and I think it would've been a much duller show without their personal spark and chemistry. But I imagine some other characters would have had to fill their holes, so it's hard to imagine what that show would have been like.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

it would've been a much duller show without their personal spark and chemistry.

So true, especially for a show as dark as BSG. And sure, their roles would have probably been filled, but I don't know whether the characters filling those roles would have connected to each other the way pilots did. (edit: I very much doubt it)

In theory, of course, we could have a show without Lee and Kara, but the reality wouldn't have been as compelling.

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

Well, are you asking about the pilots as a couple or in the bigger picture without them at all.

Because if think that it's a big difference.

I'll assume for the moment that you speak about them as a couple because that's easier to answer.

They bright a lot to the story because they are different from what we are used to expect (or at least what people expected at the time of the mini) from couples on TV. The whole gender issue that it's not an issue in BSG and the fact that beyond their history/chemistry, etc they need to have a very close work relation it's very important. Because it's one thing to have multilayered characters and another to have a multilayered relationship on top of it.

Now, if you ask me if I would have watched BSG without them - yes, I would have. But, I would not be on the internets speaking/debating/.... about the show. It would have been just another show that I watched and I would have moved on to the next.

what do you think pilots brought to the show, and the story, that made them - and the show, with them - so special?

well, in addition to what I already mentioned, it;s the fact that we have these heroes that are not always heroic and are far from perfect. and even if they lived in another place and time we can relate to them.
even more, what I think made them special is the fact that half of the time they annoy the heck out of us. And don't tell me that it;s not true. Personally half of the time I don't know if I want to strangle or hug them.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

I actually did mean their absence and the difference it would make to the bigger picture - sorry if that wasn't clear!

I agree with every word you say here, though. It is all truth.

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

Their absence. So, no pilots at all. That's hard. and I think that Tara managed to sum it up pretty well in her comment above.

The show needed a CAG and a Top Gun. And for the plot to go as it did they needed somebody to go to Caprica and then somebody to split the Fleet and so on. And every show needs somebody who follows the rules and somebody that doesn't.

But we can argue the idea of not having them at all. then if we take them out of the equation as a package of sorts, like not only their persons but their actions we would have a scenario in which - no Apollo, no Fleet. No Kara, no Galactica. And that's just the mini.

as a side note - I think I saw too many episodes of different shows based on the butterfly effect. so, maybe you should just disregard my scenario.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

"Meh, don't care about these people". Like, all of Gaius on the base star? Fast forwarded.

lol, me too. That was so much babble, and I'm much like you in that I don't give a frak about any of the Cylons (with the exception of the Sixes and Eights) - the deviations to go into Cylon culture and baseship babble were pretty much where I started thinking "ok, enough now, these guys are boring and can we go back to the humans please? Especially angsty adulterous pilots?". (Chief, Tigh etc counted as humans for most of the show's run)

[damao2010.livejournal.com]

Like, all of Gaius on the base star? Fast forwarded.
OMG. I did it, too. LOL.

[kittykiernan.livejournal.com]

I didn't fast forward because I am totally OCD about catching every detail, but I feel exactly the same way about Gaius and Head!Six. Like, Gaius is a great character and I totally get why he's there and what he does for the story, but I just can't get involved with him emotionally at all. I don't hate him, I definitely don't love him...he just sort of irritates me. I just wanted them to resolve the Head!Six thing and move on, already.

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

This is a sad, sad fate to imagine. I probably would have watched b/c i dug the hell out of the religious ambiguity of the show (back when they still did that), but man-- without the obligatory hawt young things, it would have been hard. And less pretty. And without pilots in particular, the inevitable hawt young replacements would have prbably not interested me other than pretty scenery, b/c really, pilots broke the OTP mold in so many ways. It's why I like a lot of other shows, but hardly ship the people in them. I need more than just a pretty face. ;)

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

It's why I will like a lot of other shows, but hardly ship the people in them.

THIS. So much of this.

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

And of course now I'm thinking my definition of shipping may be more hardcore than most, so I'm seeking to clarify 'casual shipping' from real-deal shipping (see the comment to sci-fi shipper below). Because I can casual ship all day long and not care but pilots are totally different.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

It's why I like a lot of other shows, but hardly ship the people in them.

I'd also probably have found the show's screwiness amusing instead of RAGE-inducing, too. I mean, it's easier to laugh at things without the additional side of 'WTF?!' when one isn't really that drawn into it.

And I do agree, NONE of the zillion hawt young things on BSG comes within galaxies of the intensity and frakked-upness and perfection of pilots. I'd just have rolled my eyes every time Helo had another attack of conscience, if he was filling Lee's role.

[kittykiernan.livejournal.com]

SO TRUE. I know lots of people who have allllllll these different pairings from different shows that they ship and ship hard...and I just don't. It's not that I don't *care* about the shows or the characters, and it's not that I don't like reading fanfic about them or talking about them, but it's different somehow. I never really got what people were talking about with OTPs until I met our pilots.

[kballgetlost.livejournal.com]

Oooh....gonna have to give this one a resounding NO!!! No pilots at all???? Now don't get me wrong, the show has a lot of merit without them BUT they were so central to not just each other but so many of the other characters that I just can't see the show working without them. The relationship between Bill and Lee and all that backstory needs to be there for Adama's character, and without Lee where would all that tension with Roslin in the first season be? How would it have resolved without Lee siding with Roslin and being the common factor between Roslin and Adama?

And Kara? What about her relationship and backstory with Bill? Not to mention her as Galatica's top gun shaping most of the other pilots and their attitudes.

And that doesn't even get into everything that would be missing if those two didn't exist with each other. There are plenty of fantastic moments from the show, but a large majority of them involve pilots.....so I just can't see it without them.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

That's so true. Bill, for one, would lose so much character-wise if you removed Lee and Kara from the picture. I can imagine that plot devices could cover the gaps left by pilots' actions, but without them the show wouldn't be quite itself, no matter what RDM thinks.

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

I was pondering this question as I ate my lunch and my first response was that I would have shipped Adama/Roslin. And I might have even gotten fannish about them because you know, she died and all. (And because honestly, I *ALWAYS* ship no matter what. I don't even know of a show I don't ship on - IDK maybe SVU, but nothing else comes to mind.)

Anyway, then I got to thinking about it and even though Bill is my third favorite character, I really love him most because of his relationships with Kara and Lee. Without that triad (heh) I am not sure I would have connected to him so much. So that leaves my fourth favorite, Saul Tigh. Saul/Ellen. Hmm. IDK. I guess I could have shipped them later in the show, especially after the NC arc.

I can say I would have definitely watched because IT'S A GREAT SHOW, YO! But there'd be little swoonworthy or sexy about the show in the way I think of it now. I love the fierceness of K/L together and separate. I feel in love with each character first and then their romance. Now I have to say I ship their romance before either of them. Anyway...rambling.

I can say I doubt I would have ever identified so strongly with a character like I do with Lee. IDK. Has never happened, will probably never happen again.

*cries inconsolably*

Great questions!

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

I can say I doubt I would have ever identified so strongly with a character like I do with Lee. IDK. Has never happened, will probably never happen again.

*cries inconsolably*

Don't get me wrong but AMEN, sister!

*joining your in crying*

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

I had declared up above that I hardly ever ship-- but now I'm curious. When you say you always ship, does it mean you're always rooting for some couple or other and hope they get together, or are you talking hardcore fangirling? Because I feel generally nice and magnanimous towards lots of ships, but I never really ever think about them once I turn off the TV. And that's where pilots stray into totally different territory. THEY EAT MY BRAIN. And no other ship has ever done that. For everyone else it's like "Aww, they're cute. Wouldn't it be sweet if they got together?" But I never lose sleep over it. I never obsess over it or write fic about it or would ever consider drinking a fifth of bourbon by myself if things ended badly for them in a field.

Um yeah. So I guess for me, there's casual shipping and then hardcore-threaten-to-ruin-my-life-and-all-that-I-hold-dear shipping. (And for the record, I'm gld the latter has only happened to me once. I don't think I could handle another one of these. ;P)

What say you?

[winegums.livejournal.com]

I can say I would have definitely watched because IT'S A GREAT SHOW, YO! But there'd be little swoonworthy or sexy about the show in the way I think of it now. I love the fierceness of K/L together and separate.

YES. It wouldn't be my OTF, and I wouldn't love it with this degree of intensity if it hadn't been for pilots - it would be so much easier to stay detached instead of jumping into full-on fanhood.

And you have it right on the nose when you point out that Bill would be so much less interesting without his children, and without the specific complicated relationships he has with them (he is my third favourite too!).

[rayruz.livejournal.com]

Starbuck's special brand of female badassery is so damn iconic, I'm not sure if I would have particularly cared as much. Though, my BSG!mom was a Gaius/Six shipper, she would have still been into it and probably would have asked me to watch... but I'm not sure I would have had as much investment in it? I mean... I would have appreciated it for the political stuff... but Kara's my baby dammit and I identify with Lee so hard... ugh I do not like this thought.

But it would still be a great show...but I don't know how emotionally invested I'd be?

[winegums.livejournal.com]

I know, I would have watched it for crazy!Gaius lols and maybe on my own part, some Laura fangirling, but it'd be easy to let go of it instead of biting my nails and eventually whimpering/crying my way through heaven knows how many episodes.

BSG without pilots would probably still be a good show, just not quite as intensely gripping for most of us. The characters are why I got emotionally invested in the first place, and without my two favourites, it wouldn't matter as much.

[ninety6tears.livejournal.com]

I would have still been pretty interested in the show at least from the start; I might not have been as into it in later seasons. I remember being very invested in Laura Roslin as a character and eventually Adama/Roslin, but they just weren't as interesting or admirable in the final season in particular. It might have needed Helo being more of a central character and his relationship with Sharon being more developed for me to stay interested.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

lol yes. It's surprising how one-dimensional they managed to make the whole 'falling in love with a Cylon' thing in his case, I can't believe he found it so easy to buy what she told him about things feeling real to her when they were actually Boomer's memories she had.