DPP Wednesday! Fight for Your Right to Multi-ship.

[apodixis.livejournal.com]

Some of us are die-hard 'Kara/Lee or no one!' shippers. Some of us have soft spots for the other relationships Kara and Lee ended up in throughout the series. And some may main-ship Kara or Lee with someone else entirely, but have been swayed by this lovely community to start understanding just why we love Starbuck and Apollo together.

So let's have at it!

Make your best case for who Lee and Kara belong with, other than each other.

Try to convince your fellow shippers why you love another pairing. Is there someone else Kara and Lee really connect with? Why? Although we know their other (established) relationships don't really work out towards the end of the show, do you think they would have, had the situations been different? Is there anyone on the show that you thought would have made a great significant other or frak buddy for either of them (but the writers just never went there)? Maybe some of us don't understand why you ship Kara and ?, or Lee and ?, so give us your best attempt at leading us over to the dark side.

If you're one of the dedicated few who can't see them with anyone else, then let's hear why you can't even begin to think of them apart!

Comments

Kara/Zak

[apodixis.livejournal.com]

I know there are a few of us who love this ship! Despite how little screentime they had together, how much we may actually question the validity of their 'engagement', and Kara's almost indiscretion on that dining room table... I don't know. I just love them together. I think it's kind of got that 'first love' filter on it for me. I mean, maybe Kara did love someone before Zak, but I'm betting on not. I've always seen their relationship as the first kind of normal thing she had in her life, an attempt to leave the bad parts of her life behind and start over with someone that only saw the good in her.

I often wonder what kind of person she'd have turned out to be if Zak hadn't died, since she wouldn't have that burden resting on her and the push to regress. The things with her mother, I think she sincerely believed most things Socrata said about her, and she would have been deeply affected by a life of abuse. BUT, I think losing Zak (and taking the blame on herself) frakked her up even more than everything else, because now it wasn't just someone else telling her she was worthless, in a way she'd proven just how bad she could be for someone else and now it only confirmed every lingering word or feeling leftover from Socrata.

I like to think that had he not died and had the worlds not ended that they would've stuck together, as hard as it would have been (and with Lee staring dramatically at her at every family gathering).

Re: Kara/Zak

[winegums.livejournal.com]

idk if I can call myself a Kara/Zak shipper per se, but I agree with every word of your first two paragraphs.

Though that relationship had its share of problems, too (albeit unbeknownst to Zak) - even with the 'first love' filter on, she fell in love with his brother and proceeded to lie to him about his ability to fly.

I do believe she loved him and part of her not telling him about failing the test was because she wanted to protect him, but it does suggest that there were insecurities at some level at even when things seemed idyllic - like she didn't believe he could take hearing the truth about his flying chops.

[kag523.livejournal.com]

I fear that today's post might cause hurt feelings so I'm going to totally not follow the directions just leave it at this:

I LOVE YOU ALL!

I LOVE that you are die-hard Kara / Lee shippers, because fandom would be a dim, dark place without you!

I LOVE that some of you (sometimes secretly) come on over and read non-K/L too! And some of you even WRITE IT!

I LOVE that the biggest part of the community is the joy we bring to one another by enjoying this epic story - and for No_Takebacks, that has to do with Kara / Lee! They are AMAZING!

And now I'm heading off. *throws sparkles on you all* Have a lovely Wednesday everyone! Sending you happy thoughts and teeny tiny towels! K :D

(http://s931.photobucket.com/albums/ad159/kag523/Gifs/?action=view&current=50-TowelLee.gif)

Re: rated R for bad language

[kag523.livejournal.com]

I really like Kara/Kendra. They are both strong women who are very wounded and complicated.

I was CERTAIN when Kendra showed up, that this was where the show was going, and I was CONVINCED that this would be the 'final' ship for Kara.

I was sadly disappointed it wasn't even touched. :(

Re: rated R for bad language

[apodixis.livejournal.com]

I would ship Kara with a fucking paperbag.

PRETTY MUCH, THIS.

As for Felix, I can't ship him with anyone but Hoshi because Hoshi is so frakking adorable.

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

Everyone can ship anyone they like. No defending necessary. If you're here, I assume that some part of you ships pilots. I'm happy for that.

I'll second what Karin said. I love all you guys and am grateful for keeping the pilot love alive. Thank you!

PILOTS <3<3<3<3<3<3

(http://s784.photobucket.com/albums/yy126/scifishipper/BSG/BSG%20GIFS/?action=view&current=tumblr_lmn2zfjYwr1qzcrxeo1_500.gif)

(http://s784.photobucket.com/albums/yy126/scifishipper/BSG/BSG%20GIFS/?action=view&current=karaleescar.gif)

(http://s784.photobucket.com/albums/yy126/scifishipper/BSG/BSG%20GIFS/?action=view&current=karaleeresurrectionhug-1.gif)

(http://s784.photobucket.com/albums/yy126/scifishipper/BSG/BSG%20GIFS/?action=view&current=karaleepyramidball-1.gif)

(http://s784.photobucket.com/albums/yy126/scifishipper/BSG/BSG%20GIFS/?action=view&current=dontcare.gif)

(http://s784.photobucket.com/albums/yy126/scifishipper/BSG/BSG%20GIFS/?action=view&current=daybreak.gif)

(http://s784.photobucket.com/albums/yy126/scifishipper/BSG/BSG%20GIFS/?action=view&current=outofairsnuggles.gif)

(http://s784.photobucket.com/albums/yy126/scifishipper/BSG/BSG%20GIFS/?action=view&current=EOJ1.gif)

(http://s784.photobucket.com/albums/yy126/scifishipper/BSG/BSG%20GIFS/?action=view&current=homehug.gif)

(http://s784.photobucket.com/albums/yy126/scifishipper/BSG/BSG%20GIFS/?action=view&current=gratefullee.gif)

[kag523.livejournal.com]

These gifs give me SO MANY FEELINGS! Gah! *cries* Must go write Antebellum now so I CAN FIX IT ALL. (That's my rename for Arrivals ;)

[rayruz.livejournal.com]

I WANT TO STEAL ALL THESE GIFS. *HUUUUUGS THE PILOTS* *HUUUUGS YOU*

[rachelmack.livejournal.com]

FLAILY-FLAIL-FLAIL
(Does anyone have any Daybreak-sexytime-flashback GIFs? I can't find any.)

[winegums.livejournal.com]

I have ALL THE FEELINGS from these gifs.

Oh, pilots. I just cant quit you *sigh*

Kara/Leoben and me

[deborah-judge.livejournal.com]

Hm, I'm running off to work but since I'm probably one of the people this is directed at, a few short things:

1. I so love this fandom. Whenever I hear about shipper-wars in other fandoms I get all smug and happy that BSG fandom is so awesome that I can come over here and play when I'm in the mood for something Kara/Lee and I always feel welcome.

2. I think shipping can mean different things in different pairings, and to different people. I would absolutely not say that I ship Kara/Leoben because they are good for each other, in fact I mostly write about them being awful to each other. It's more that I selfishly want to see them together, less that I think I'm being good to the characters by putting them together. Sometimes I feel a bit guilty about this, but making characters happy is really not my top priority when I'm writing.

I think this is important, because something that comes up a lot with Kara/Leoben is: How can you ship them when he kidnapped her/she tortured him? Are you saying that's okay? And no, being fascinated by a relationship and writing it incessantly does *not* necessarily mean thinking that it's okay. Part of the trick with writing them is making Leoben sympathetic enough to be comprehensible while also making clear that Wrong Things are Wrong.

3. And why do I like putting them together? Because I like the kinds of stories that come out. I like to write stories about post-genocide reconciliation and religious violence, and they are the perfect ship for that. The other day I was re-watching their deleted scene from "A Measure of Salvation" - Leoben's dying, Kara's angry and also traumatized, the Cylons might be wiped out and humans don't know what's going on, and what do they do? They argue about religion. I find that utterly compelling.

4. I found the human/Cylon reconciliation arc in season 3-4 to be really problematic, but also fascinating. Because I found it problematic I had to poke at it, and I found the Kara/Leoben relationship to be a good way of doing that, because it makes the problems in reconciliation just *so* obvious. I wrote some meta (http://deborah-judge.livejournal.com/192158.html) about a year and a half ago about this that's been making the rounds recently, I'd probably say some things differently now but it might still be the best meta I've written about why I ship it.

5. If you really want to know why I find the stories that come out when Kara and Leoben are together so compelling, the best thing to read is my post-finale fic Prayers to the God of Earth (http://deborah-judge.livejournal.com/191199.html). It was my first fic for them, after I woke up one day utterly obsessed with them, and I wrote it to try to figure out and explain why I thought the pairing made sense and why it was interesting. I do write them a happy ending in that fic, but I put them through rather a lot of awful to get there. Warning: it has canon-consistent dubcon and noncon. My other fics about them are here (http://deborah-judge.livejournal.com/234096.html).

6. I get that it's not going to be everyone's thing. There's something in me that craves these particular kinds of stories, but I don't think everyone will. (I also get that for some people Kara/Leoben will only and always be a story about rape and there's no other story that they can or want to see there.) I don't think there's any particular virtue in multishipping for its own sake. So, REALLY don't feel obligated to read my fic or meta or even think about this if it's not your thing. I really won't judge you. I promise. I'm just glad to be welcome here when I come over and join the pilotsquee.

...and now I'm late for work. But thanks for asking!

Re: Kara/Leoben and me

[rirenec.livejournal.com]

Grins! (I wish I could get my thoughts down as clearly D. I so do.)

[plaid-slytherin.livejournal.com]

I'm definitely an outlier here in that K/L isn't my OTP, or even my favorite ship for Lee. (It's my OTP for Kara, I guess you could say since I don't really ship her with anyone else.) Lee is somebody I kind of ship with everybody but my favorite is Laura/Lee. I loved the connection they had back at the beginning of the series. It's really a huge contrast with K/L and the way they do different things for each other. I like L/L in a world where they never lost that working relationship and were able to strengthen that connection. I was really upset with where they ultimately went in the trial with him kind of using what he knew from their time as allies against her, so I can't really reconcile L/L with that. I ship K/L in a more canon-resembling universe, if that makes sense. If I'm writing L/L, then I want them to stay together forever and the same with K/L. Different universes.

Why Kara/Sam Just Doesn't Work for Me

[rayruz.livejournal.com]

It's very bizarre for me to be so OMGOMGOTP about Kara/Lee because in every other fandom I'm a serious multishipper. Chuck, Buffy, Eureka, White Collar, Being Human... pretty much any other show I'm all about the possibilities. But Kara and Lee... they're the only ones I really want to see them with.

Obviously, the biggest rival to this ship is Kara/Sam... but I gotta be honest.. it bores the shit out of me. I never bought The Farm or Scar. I never thought the show gave Sam enough impact to make an emotional connection. He was a one night stand that the show kept trying to make into something more. By bringing him back it made him into a plot device more than a character. The show never really shows us what Kara sees in Sam. WHY she would want to be in a relationship with him. That kinda bugs. Sam always felt like cardboard to me.

Also, making Scar about Sam instead of her legit trauma always sorta made me bitter. And giving Kara dead guy trauma without ever mentioning Zak... kinda smacked of WTFery... again, further turning me away from Sam.

The show also made Sam more than he was. I actually YELLED at the screen in LDYB2 when it revealed that they were married. Seriously? Now, if Kara/Sam had been a fun little fling that ran its course, I probably would ship it more. In the same context that I have a soft spot for Kara/Leoben (which for some reason doesn't actually read in my mind as a multiship because it's a different relationship entirely)... if Kara/Sam had been a short lived thing, I'd be all "HELL YEAH! Kara can sleep who she wants to sleep with!" I firmly believe she slept with Helo in the past. Some friendly no-strings-attached kinda deal.

There are two things that would have made K/S work for me.
1) If K/S was a short-lived fling that wasn't turned into a roadblock or made into more than it should have been.
2) If Sam was a woman. Which is a WHOLE different meta that I wrote a while ago. (http://rayruz.livejournal.com/352620.html)

...I also wanna see Kara bang some ladies. Just in general. We know she likes the ladies too.

Re: Why Kara/Sam Just Doesn't Work for Me

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

I wonder how Katee would've felt about Kara being bisexual. I know she kisses Michelle T. in Sexy Evil Genius, but I do wonder if she would've resisted that at all because of Starbuck already having a fairly butch persona and all the assumptions (hopes?) that either Kara or Katee herself was lesbian. Hmm.

[onlyariana.livejournal.com]

This isn't quite multi-shipping but my view is that they were both way too screwed up to have a healthy relationship with anyone. Maybe, maybe sometime after the end Lee could have had a ship that made sense, but by the time Kara died she was not even close.

Now to be fair most fictional characters and most people in real life are also too screwed up to have a healthy relationship as well.

So I kinda ship K/L by default mostly because I just enjoy the two of them interacting and all you around here are so awesome and entusiastic and I'm easily swayed.

[rirenec.livejournal.com]

LOL, this is a fabulous com! Yes, support here is paramount, and I love writing pilots fic and sharing in that enthusiasm.

[n-e-star.livejournal.com]

I had a mini-break through on my thoughts of all the relationships on BSG in general the other day.

You can read the whole rambly thing here (http://n-e-star.livejournal.com/336183.html).

But to sum up, BSG was all about telling you things had happened rather then showing you what was going on. We were told that Sam was hugely important to Kara, we were told that Lee was interested in Dee - but we never saw it.

[embolalia.livejournal.com]

It's funny, I'm a multi-shipper when I'm writing but not when I'm watching. Does that make sense? On screen, I am completely absorbed in the chemistry and catastrophe of Kara and Lee. But when I'm writing and exploring, say, Kara's abandonment issues, Leoben might be the most interesting person for her to be involved with to explore what it would mean if she were with someone who literally couldn't die. I wrote a drabble series for kink that was Kara/Tigh a while back which I don't even like much as a ship but it was a way of thinking about how much they both wanted to destroy themselves after New Caprica. I wasn't initially interested much in Kara/Sam because I agree with what's been said above about canon not actually letting us see them fall in love and build their relationship - but I do think he's a context for examining Kara trying for stability.

Does that make sense? I love Lee, I do, but Kara's my OTC and the various characters who surround her all bring out different parts of who she is.

[kag523.livejournal.com]

Kara's my OTC and the various characters who surround her all bring out different parts of who she is.

I want kadiebleu to create the questionnaire I keep imagining that defines your character tastes in relation to who you are. I think the character we give the most 'flex' tends to be the one we 'get' the most. They are the one who appears in most (if not all) our stories. They are the ones who show up uninvited, even if we try to NOT tell their stories.

They may not be a clear reflection of us, but they carry something in their being that resonates firmly with us. I would argue that almost all people to whom Lee is "their character", would find Kara's other relationships hard to manage, whereas those to whom Kara is "their character", would be totally okay with that.

Anyhow. I'm not making this questionnaire. I'm going to wait for Kate to do it. LOL

[rirenec.livejournal.com]

I am very much a multishipper (and often at the same time *hangs head/smirks*), I do have my preferences, but I see different facets to Kara and Lee explored with different people. Some ships are kinder, some ships darker. However I respect that people just ship them, because they are wonderful together and deserved so much more than the journey they were given reflected.

[rachelindeed.livejournal.com]

I'm not a multishipper, I pretty much stick with Kara/Lee. I don't think I have a particularly deep reason for that -- it's just that I'm in fandom to enjoy whatever most appeals to me, and that's the relationship that makes me happy to watch/read/think about. I just don't get excited at the thought of reading Lee/Dee or Kara/Sam; it's not my thing. But of course I'd never try and talk anyone else out of enjoying whatever works for them.

And when it comes to non-canonical pairings, I guess my first instinct is to enjoy the heck out of exploring new facets of my favorite characters but not to feel any need to ship them in order to accomplish that. There are tons of interesting relationships besides romantic/sexual ones, so why not use the canonical non-parter characters to explore those sides of Kara and Lee? I guess I think it's really fun to put Laura and Lee or Kara and Gaeta in a room together and explore the complicated relationships and emotions there, but in my head that doesn't lead to shipping them. But then I love reading gen fanfiction in general and I'm always excited when I find a really deep, wonderful exploration of friendship or enmity or familial ties or something like that. Those are great parts of life and I want to see my favorite characters expand into a whole range of relationships, I guess. So I tend to stick with the established romantic couples and look to the other characters to bring a different kind of dynamic to the scene?

#justme

[pocochina.livejournal.com]

Not just you! Mostly. I mean, I do ship almost everyone with almost everyone (sometimes solely for the sheer crack value but still), but this:

I love reading gen fanfiction in general and I'm always excited when I find a really deep, wonderful exploration of friendship or enmity or familial ties or something like that. Those are great parts of life and I want to see my favorite characters expand into a whole range of relationships

is possibly my favorite thing to explore. I have a particular soft spot for friendships, but there are a lot of fascinating dynamics bouncing around the show.

[useyourlove.livejournal.com]

When I'm watching the show, I ship Kara with everyone. When I'm in fandom I get waaaay too pissed at Kara/Sam shippers, so I just say I only ship Kara/Lee so I don't have to put up with it. I'm apparently just incredibly intolerant, but I often feel like the hardcore Kara/Sam shippers are willfully misreading the characters and just don't like Lee, so they try and erase him. I dunno--it's just not my cup of tea, and it's a reading of the text that rubs me the wrong way because I just want to stand up and shout "OY DUMMY! YOU MISSED THE WHOLE POINT!" So, basically, I tend to just stick to the cozy Pilots corners of fandom and keep my mild multi-shipping to myself. (I also find Kara/Leoben fascinating but I long ago stopped saying I shipped them because I was getting crap for it. Mostly: Kara can do whatever she wants with her incredibly screwed up relationships and I will be on board. Lee, however, I just can't see with anyone but Kara.)

[pocochina.livejournal.com]

I multi-ship them both EVERY WHICH WAY. SO, TL;DR.

On a nosebleed-section story level, I'm so into the way the relationship clashes so hard with romantic conventions, and I think both of them having credible romantic interests outside of each other does so much to make that work. I always end up giving the side-eye to main couples where there really is no-one else for one or both characters. For Kara and Lee, everyone else REALLY IS DEAD, pretty much, and they still end up having to make a lot of difficult decisions to handle the way they feel about each other. I find that interesting for the sake of Kara/Lee, even outside of my warm fuzzies about other ships.

Then on a character level - at least in the time frame of the show, I don't think either of them act like people who really want a monogamous relationship with anyone? I think Kara likes to have a few pokers in the fire, and I love her for it. And I didn't really get on board with Lee or Kara/Lee until S3, so Sam was kind of always in the picture for me with them. I think Lee's identity issues and massive trust problems mean it'd be asking too much of him until maybe the very end, he just can't on some level, and that's okay. So as a fan of both characters, my reaction is along the lines of YOU KIDS HAVE FUN NOW.

And THEN the other actual pairings are delightful. Obviously my #1 BSG priority is that I just want Laura to be happy okay (everyone else not dying horribly is ancillary to that #priorities) and the whole twisted Oedipal thing with her and Lee is dark and sweet and fascinating all at once. Kara and Sam go from a one-night stand to an epic romance, and it gets me every step of the way. Either of them with Kendra. Lee/Dee...I know mileage varies on them, but I think it did so much for his identity crisis and her characterization as someone who defined herself by being a fixer and for the whole theme of grasping for this idea of normalcy that they definitely can't have now even if it ever existed in the first place.

so anyway. Multishipping manifesto.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

Lee/Dee...I know mileage varies on them, but I think it did so much for his identity crisis and her characterization as someone who defined herself by being a fixer and for the whole theme of grasping for this idea of normalcy that they definitely can't have now even if it ever existed in the first place.

YES TO THIS. I always thought Lee and Dee becoming a sort-of thing made a lot more sense than most people seem to think - of course, it's not that I ship them but I can see who they are and why they end up together, because at least the show developed Dee as a character in her own right, pre-Lee. (Sam never got that, which made believing in Kara/Sam so much harder tbh)

And I suppose when it comes to exploring what pilots want out of their relationships, or think they want, Dee and Sam made some sense.

[requialexa.livejournal.com]

It's too late & I don't have time to properly address it, and you've heard it from me before, but I have a huge kink for Bill/Kara. I felt real chemistry between them in s1 and I just love a May/December ship. I like the chemistry between Lee & Laura, too, and if I were more of a writer, I think L/L would be easiest for me to write...but maybe just because I can identify more with Laura at tthis point in my life than with Kara :P

Loved all the thought-provoking discussion, especially the Leoben insights.