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no_takebacksSome of us are die-hard 'Kara/Lee or no one!' shippers. Some of us have soft spots for the other relationships Kara and Lee ended up in throughout the series. And some may main-ship Kara or Lee with someone else entirely, but have been swayed by this lovely community to start understanding just why we love Starbuck and Apollo together.
Make your best case for who Lee and Kara belong with, other than each other.
Try to convince your fellow shippers why you love another pairing. Is there someone else Kara and Lee really connect with? Why? Although we know their other (established) relationships don't really work out towards the end of the show, do you think they would have, had the situations been different? Is there anyone on the show that you thought would have made a great significant other or frak buddy for either of them (but the writers just never went there)? Maybe some of us don't understand why you ship Kara and ?, or Lee and ?, so give us your best attempt at leading us over to the dark side.
If you're one of the dedicated few who can't see them with anyone else, then let's hear why you can't even begin to think of them apart!
So let's have at it!
Make your best case for who Lee and Kara belong with, other than each other.
Try to convince your fellow shippers why you love another pairing. Is there someone else Kara and Lee really connect with? Why? Although we know their other (established) relationships don't really work out towards the end of the show, do you think they would have, had the situations been different? Is there anyone on the show that you thought would have made a great significant other or frak buddy for either of them (but the writers just never went there)? Maybe some of us don't understand why you ship Kara and ?, or Lee and ?, so give us your best attempt at leading us over to the dark side.
If you're one of the dedicated few who can't see them with anyone else, then let's hear why you can't even begin to think of them apart!
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Kara/Zak
Date: 2012-02-15 02:16 pm (UTC)I often wonder what kind of person she'd have turned out to be if Zak hadn't died, since she wouldn't have that burden resting on her and the push to regress. The things with her mother, I think she sincerely believed most things Socrata said about her, and she would have been deeply affected by a life of abuse. BUT, I think losing Zak (and taking the blame on herself) frakked her up even more than everything else, because now it wasn't just someone else telling her she was worthless, in a way she'd proven just how bad she could be for someone else and now it only confirmed every lingering word or feeling leftover from Socrata.
I like to think that had he not died and had the worlds not ended that they would've stuck together, as hard as it would have been (and with Lee staring dramatically at her at every family gathering).
no subject
Date: 2012-02-15 02:41 pm (UTC)totally not follow the directionsjust leave it at this:I LOVE YOU ALL!
I LOVE that you are die-hard Kara / Lee shippers, because fandom would be a dim, dark place without you!
I LOVE that some of you (sometimes secretly) come on over and read non-K/L too! And some of you even WRITE IT!
I LOVE that the biggest part of the community is the joy we bring to one another by enjoying this epic story - and for No_Takebacks, that has to do with Kara / Lee! They are AMAZING!
And now I'm heading off. *throws sparkles on you all* Have a lovely Wednesday everyone! Sending you happy thoughts and teeny tiny towels! K :D
no subject
Date: 2012-02-15 03:30 pm (UTC)I'll second what Karin said. I love all you guys and am grateful for keeping the pilot love alive. Thank you!
PILOTS <3<3<3<3<3<3
Kara/Leoben and me
Date: 2012-02-15 03:30 pm (UTC)1. I so love this fandom. Whenever I hear about shipper-wars in other fandoms I get all smug and happy that BSG fandom is so awesome that I can come over here and play when I'm in the mood for something Kara/Lee and I always feel welcome.
2. I think shipping can mean different things in different pairings, and to different people. I would absolutely not say that I ship Kara/Leoben because they are good for each other, in fact I mostly write about them being awful to each other. It's more that I selfishly want to see them together, less that I think I'm being good to the characters by putting them together. Sometimes I feel a bit guilty about this, but making characters happy is really not my top priority when I'm writing.
I think this is important, because something that comes up a lot with Kara/Leoben is: How can you ship them when he kidnapped her/she tortured him? Are you saying that's okay? And no, being fascinated by a relationship and writing it incessantly does *not* necessarily mean thinking that it's okay. Part of the trick with writing them is making Leoben sympathetic enough to be comprehensible while also making clear that Wrong Things are Wrong.
3. And why do I like putting them together? Because I like the kinds of stories that come out. I like to write stories about post-genocide reconciliation and religious violence, and they are the perfect ship for that. The other day I was re-watching their deleted scene from "A Measure of Salvation" - Leoben's dying, Kara's angry and also traumatized, the Cylons might be wiped out and humans don't know what's going on, and what do they do? They argue about religion. I find that utterly compelling.
4. I found the human/Cylon reconciliation arc in season 3-4 to be really problematic, but also fascinating. Because I found it problematic I had to poke at it, and I found the Kara/Leoben relationship to be a good way of doing that, because it makes the problems in reconciliation just *so* obvious. I wrote some meta (http://deborah-judge.livejournal.com/192158.html) about a year and a half ago about this that's been making the rounds recently, I'd probably say some things differently now but it might still be the best meta I've written about why I ship it.
5. If you really want to know why I find the stories that come out when Kara and Leoben are together so compelling, the best thing to read is my post-finale fic Prayers to the God of Earth (http://deborah-judge.livejournal.com/191199.html). It was my first fic for them, after I woke up one day utterly obsessed with them, and I wrote it to try to figure out and explain why I thought the pairing made sense and why it was interesting. I do write them a happy ending in that fic, but I put them through rather a lot of awful to get there. Warning: it has canon-consistent dubcon and noncon. My other fics about them are here (http://deborah-judge.livejournal.com/234096.html).
6. I get that it's not going to be everyone's thing. There's something in me that craves these particular kinds of stories, but I don't think everyone will. (I also get that for some people Kara/Leoben will only and always be a story about rape and there's no other story that they can or want to see there.) I don't think there's any particular virtue in multishipping for its own sake. So, REALLY don't feel obligated to read my fic or meta or even think about this if it's not your thing. I really won't judge you. I promise. I'm just glad to be welcome here when I come over and join the pilotsquee.
...and now I'm late for work. But thanks for asking!
no subject
Date: 2012-02-15 03:39 pm (UTC)Re: rated R for bad language
Date: 2012-02-15 04:05 pm (UTC)I was CERTAIN when Kendra showed up, that this was where the show was going, and I was CONVINCED that this would be the 'final' ship for Kara.
I was sadly disappointed it wasn't even touched. :(
no subject
Date: 2012-02-15 04:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-02-15 04:27 pm (UTC)Why Kara/Sam Just Doesn't Work for Me
Date: 2012-02-15 04:51 pm (UTC)Obviously, the biggest rival to this ship is Kara/Sam... but I gotta be honest.. it bores the shit out of me. I never bought The Farm or Scar. I never thought the show gave Sam enough impact to make an emotional connection. He was a one night stand that the show kept trying to make into something more. By bringing him back it made him into a plot device more than a character. The show never really shows us what Kara sees in Sam. WHY she would want to be in a relationship with him. That kinda bugs. Sam always felt like cardboard to me.
Also, making Scar about Sam instead of her legit trauma always sorta made me bitter. And giving Kara dead guy trauma without ever mentioning Zak... kinda smacked of WTFery... again, further turning me away from Sam.
The show also made Sam more than he was. I actually YELLED at the screen in LDYB2 when it revealed that they were married. Seriously? Now, if Kara/Sam had been a fun little fling that ran its course, I probably would ship it more. In the same context that I have a soft spot for Kara/Leoben (which for some reason doesn't actually read in my mind as a multiship because it's a different relationship entirely)... if Kara/Sam had been a short lived thing, I'd be all "HELL YEAH! Kara can sleep who she wants to sleep with!" I firmly believe she slept with Helo in the past. Some friendly no-strings-attached kinda deal.
There are two things that would have made K/S work for me.
1) If K/S was a short-lived fling that wasn't turned into a roadblock or made into more than it should have been.
2) If Sam was a woman. Which is a WHOLE different meta that I wrote a while ago. (http://rayruz.livejournal.com/352620.html)
...I also wanna see Kara bang some ladies. Just in general. We know she likes the ladies too.
no subject
Date: 2012-02-15 04:53 pm (UTC)Re: rated R for bad language
Date: 2012-02-15 04:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-02-15 05:09 pm (UTC)Now to be fair most fictional characters and most people in real life are also too screwed up to have a healthy relationship as well.
So I kinda ship K/L by default mostly because I just enjoy the two of them interacting and all you around here are so awesome and entusiastic and I'm easily swayed.
Re: Why Kara/Sam Just Doesn't Work for Me
Date: 2012-02-15 05:14 pm (UTC)Re: Why Kara/Sam Just Doesn't Work for Me
Date: 2012-02-15 05:20 pm (UTC)Obviously my brain is more highly evolved. :P
*shrug* IDK. I mean I know society is in a place where bisexuality/homosexuality/pansexuality... whatever label you want to put on it is a BIG DEAL. I wish it wasn't that way... *sigh*
I'm gonna go be sad in a corner now.
Re: Why Kara/Sam Just Doesn't Work for Me
Date: 2012-02-15 05:25 pm (UTC)Re: Why Kara/Sam Just Doesn't Work for Me
Date: 2012-02-15 05:27 pm (UTC)You and I are special snowflakes, my friend.
I mean, it may be different now but for a long time I felt like I was the only one. For some reason most of the queer ladies were hanging out in the Kara/Sam camp.
no subject
Date: 2012-02-15 05:29 pm (UTC)You can read the whole rambly thing here (http://n-e-star.livejournal.com/336183.html).
But to sum up, BSG was all about telling you things had happened rather then showing you what was going on. We were told that Sam was hugely important to Kara, we were told that Lee was interested in Dee - but we never saw it.
Re: Why Kara/Sam Just Doesn't Work for Me
Date: 2012-02-15 05:39 pm (UTC)I think that's probably why. And like I said, I tend to have that mindset for almost every other show I watch. Ship ALL the things. But for some reason, Kara and Lee have just captured my heart in a way that I cannot let go of. Though using them as a way to fill the void is probably not healthy. :)
no subject
Date: 2012-02-15 05:39 pm (UTC)Does that make sense? I love Lee, I do, but Kara's my OTC and the various characters who surround her all bring out different parts of who she is.
no subject
Date: 2012-02-15 05:40 pm (UTC)SHOW don't TELL.
I feel like they SHOWED enough of Kara and Lee for me to buy it... and that's about all they did show... so.... yeah.
no subject
Date: 2012-02-15 05:47 pm (UTC)When my dad joined LJ I set my journal to Friends Only as a default.
no subject
Date: 2012-02-15 05:49 pm (UTC)I want kadiebleu to create the questionnaire I keep imagining that defines your character tastes in relation to who you are. I think the character we give the most 'flex' tends to be the one we 'get' the most. They are the one who appears in most (if not all) our stories. They are the ones who show up uninvited, even if we try to NOT tell their stories.
They may not be a clear reflection of us, but they carry something in their being that resonates firmly with us. I would argue that almost all people to whom Lee is "their character", would find Kara's other relationships hard to manage, whereas those to whom Kara is "their character", would be totally okay with that.
Anyhow. I'm not making this questionnaire. I'm going to wait for Kate to do it. LOL
no subject
Date: 2012-02-15 05:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-02-15 06:02 pm (UTC)I'll be intrigued to see the questions :)
no subject
Date: 2012-02-15 06:03 pm (UTC)