DPP: Pilots and PapAdama....... (a.k.a. We Are Family)

[winegums.livejournal.com]

Today's DPP is something that I'd be willing to bet all of us have thought about at some point or other: the fact that Bill Adama sees both Lee and Kara as his children. He can also clearly be a (inadvertent) source of friction between the two of them, given that in their very first scene together in the miniseries, he was the first thing they argued about - but what impact does he have on the way Lee and Kara relate to each other?




In canon, PapAdama seems to be completely unaware of the fact that Lee and Kara have a connection that's more than just platonic or familial, especially since they often act like siblings when they're around him. (see below: it's rather telling that Kara is the one who knows the story and not Lee).


On the other hand, pilots in canon seem to see their relationship with each other - and especially the romantic part of it - as completely separate from their relationship with Bill. (sample: in UB and also afterward, neither of them brings up his reaction as a possible obstacle to them getting together). So how do you see them, shippers?

Comments

[requialexa.livejournal.com]

I wonder if I can conjure up the mental resources to write some rhetoric on "Why I think Papadama is Fully Aware"? I doubt it.

But even after watching UBEX for the first time last weekend, and paying closer attention to Bill telling Lee about Kara's wedding, and keeping in mind how blind you all say he is, I still didn't see it. From the first time to the most recent time I saw that scene, I have always assumed that Bill is gauging Lee's reaction, even choosing to tell him personally so he doesn't find out from another source...not that he knew about the night Lee & Kara had, but because he knew Lee would be upset. I think he wants to see Lee's reaction, professionally in order to see if Lee's really pro enough to handle command, and personally because he wants to make sure Lee's gonna let her go without a fight and without making a scene (both because of regulations and because he does indeed care about his son saving face)

I believe Papa wishes his two most favorite kids could be together, but this is so not the time (and it never will be because it's war and then End of the Worlds) so they need to pull it together and do the sensible thing, you two are officers of the Colonial Fleet for Gods' sake!!

Like he would never, ever, encourage Lee to declare himself (until laaate, maybe, when he finally says "Frak professionalism, you only live once" in his own love life). And, like any man, would rather die than get involved in the woman's half of the love life. So from any angle, he's the last to interfere.

I think he has one hell of a poker face, especially where his oldest son is concerned. It's so good, Lee has no idea how the Old Man feels about him until the End of the Worlds. He just pushes, and inspires and pushes more and it's all out of love, of course, but Lee doesn't see it 'cause we're all just kids where our parents are concerned.

I know there's more, but I really, honestly think Papa knows that they feel Very Strong Things about each other, and may even suspect that they've been Up to No Good at least once or twice but his commitment to duty prevents him from openly acknowledging any of that. I think duty-wise, he even feels badly for having his son under his command, because it so jeopardizes the rest of the fleet to have the Commander biased toward one officer (he's more practiced with separating Kara). I guess it all plays out the same...he can't help in any way, but I think he'd do more harm than good anyway ;)

[winegums.livejournal.com]

I really, really wish I could see it that way, but the thing is, he's really never known them together before the Cylon attacks - he didn't even meet Kara until after Zak's death, and she and Lee were presumably estranged from then up until the decommissioning.

He probably knows they are friends, and that they've been close because of Zak - but as for their relationship independent of it, and the massive tangle of complicated feelings that pilots bring along as baggage, I don't think he is that good at sussing that out. He loves Lee, but I could say he doesn't really know him very well - in a lot of ways their relationship only began after the war. I do agree that if he did know, he'd be the last to interfere, but I never, ever got so much as a hint that he sensed something was up between them.

I can buy it that Laura knew easier than I can buy his knowing about it - even the way he broke the news of Kara's marriage in UB, it isn't the way I've ever known anyone to break bad news to someone they knew might be upset by it. And as far as Bill knew, it wasn't bad news to Lee.

[requialexa.livejournal.com]

I think I fangirled Papa before I became a shipper, so I'm biased :D
I see him as borderline omniscient :D But srsly, I do think that in order to lead well, he needs to be able to read people very well and with all the eyefrakking, etc, that Pilots do, someone as good at reading people as he would need to be could not have missed it. Yes, he'd miss the details and no he wouldn't swear to it, but he'd have strong suspicions about their feelings. Or fears about them, more like. Like he knows the two of them enough to know they're great together (chemistry-wise).
I think I assume a lot about Papa that may not be supported in canon...but I had to pick it up somewhere...I didn't come to BSG an EJO fangirl so I wasn't biased to begin...
And the way he broke the news I just assumed was ultra-casual to cover for how not casual the moment really was. It was an subliminal cue to Lee to Hold It Together, son, this is not Your Beeswax.
Papa sees all. :P
ETA:typo fixes and a bit of clarification...not enough, though, I'm afraid :)

[winegums.livejournal.com]

all the eyefrakking, etc, that Pilots do

See that's just the thing, I never see them do it around him! With PapAdama, they basically turn into children when they're not in soldier!mode, so it'd be that much easier for him to block out anything he didn't want to process. I mean, even when they basically try to kill each other in the boxing ring and end up hugging like children in front of an audience that includes their spouses...nothing from Daddy.

I love him as a character too, so I really don't think I'm biased either - though maybe I am, since I really wanted him to notice what was up between pilots/acknowledge it in some small way, at least to himself or in the wake of Kara's death.

[requialexa.livejournal.com]

at least to himself or in the wake of Kara's death.

Word. But I reserve the right to believe we just didn't see that part :P

Yeah, I think I can concede that I have a tendency to see what I wanna see (maybe that's why I like Papa so much *snicker*)...

[winegums.livejournal.com]

But I reserve the right to believe we just didn't see that part :P

I wish we had :( Though I do still not believe in this the way I do in Lee and Kara going much further than just Raptor outmaking during the affair :)