no_takebacks | DPP: Fading into the Background

callmeonetrack.livejournal.com posting in

Morning everyone! So a quick update, thanks for signing up for those DPP slots, there is just one left open between now and 2012 if anyone wants to do the honors!

Also, don't miss the four brand new ficlets from yesterday's touch meme! Tomorrow, we explore....SMOOCHAGE!

But today, a question about a fandom practice that I've noticed...

It seems to me that when I see big epic fics posted by other shippers, there are often secondary background romances in them...but seldom are they Kara/Lee. Why do you think this is? Are they just too attention-getting? Too complicated? Do they not work in the background? Is it a fandom fatigue thing--where the writer feels like they already have a lot of fic based around them and chooses to focus on other couples (and yes, I've seen that as a reason to not like Kara/Lee)? Are they just the kind of characters/ship that you either love or hate? (There's a lot of hate in the latter seasons once the Quad starts up.) Inquiring minds would like to know!

Prompt: Recommend some fics that feature Kara/Lee as a secondary ship, and if you write, perhaps try your stab at writting a ficlet that features them as background ship to the main action.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

callmeonetrack.livejournal.com

See, the comments reaction at Mark Watches seems like such an anomaly to me (probably colored by Mark's own reaction/interpretations) because the iconic couple of BSG is unarguably Starbuck/Apollo. I mean they are the ones people remember and talk about in the wider realm of "people who watch BSG (but are not really fannish about it)". I mean even in fandom, how many Kara/Sam shippers are there really? Compared to K/L? The numbers can't even approach comparison I would think.

I too am totally surprised by the aversion to fictional infidelity, especially in light of the other crimes and horrors depicted in the show that people don't really even sniff over.

Re: Alias - I was disappointed they took the easy way out and made Lauren a total villian. But it certainly does "protect" your OTP if you do that. I mean, imagine if they'd revealed Sam was a cylon right from the start or alternatively that Dee was, and that they had agendas? Would anyone still ship Kara/Sam or Lee/Dee, marriage or no marriage?

From:

workerbee73.livejournal.com

What's up over at Mark Watches? I haven't been following since Scar.

((Also? FWIW, His Twlight recaps are EPIC. The Mark!rage over those books is so gloriously entertaining.))

From:

winegums.livejournal.com

Oh, I loved those (despite my own shame over initially liking the first book)! My soft spot is his Harry Potter recaps, which put me at risk of Death By Choking On My Ow Laughter especially when he'd write out the occasional book review from the PoV of Harry's owl. (quote: DEAD RAT MMMMMMMMM)

From:

winegums.livejournal.com

Hahahaha, so much for me trying not to spoil Alias! But seriously, that show made as much sense as gobbledygook by that point, I just kept watching it for crack value (and because Michael Vartan was hot).

And you're probably right about MW, though I gave up on that place for other reasons too, not just shippy ones. Back when I was a mod at a Harry Potter forum, we had rules covering Character Bashing/Shades of Grey (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=113673) - sometimes I think they should apply across fandoms , though I've probably broken each and every one of them when it comes to BSG.

It's not really the aversion to fictional infidelity that surprises me so much as the apparently commonly-held notion that marriage basically makes any couple THE BEST and their relationship henceforth should be indestructible (with the only decent way to finish it being turncoating/death), even if the reasons for the marriage were terrible ones to begin with.

From:

kdbleu.livejournal.com

It's not really the aversion to fictional infidelity that surprises me so much as the apparently commonly-held notion that marriage basically makes any couple THE BEST and their relationship henceforth should be indestructible (with the only decent way to finish it being turncoating/death), even if the reasons for the marriage were terrible ones to begin with.

I too find this curious. It smacks of insecurity on the part of people shipping the married couple to me for some reason. But maybe I just don't consider marriage to be the end all be all of relationships anyway. *shrugs*

From:

winegums.livejournal.com

I can't hazard a guess about the motives behind shipping, but I did find it very strange that people cannot handle the concept of characters who are so messed up actually doing things that are messed-up and hurting other people as a consequence.

It's like, you celebrate this character/s for being three-dimensional and flawed, but the moment they do something wrong as a result of that flaw, you start squealing about how wrong and bad and awful they are.

From:

kdbleu.livejournal.com

But I think people get uncomfortable when their wonderful three-dimensional characters move out their comfort zone without considering whether or not that bad behavior is in character. They want their characters to stay to true not to the character but to them.

It never even occurred to me to think that Kara and Lee cheating was anything other than perfectly natural for them, dealing with their particular issues in a rational adult sort of way would never have entered the picture. Not at the point in the story where they were cheating anyway.

From:

callmeonetrack.livejournal.com

Word. It's near on impossible for me to imagine any other outcome from the events of Unfinished Business than what Kara did. Seriously. I can't even fix-it fic that scenario. I just can't imagine her not running. Anything else would be so OOC.

The same with EOJ, although somewhere between that arc and TABFAYW is where they dropped the ball for me. That is when marriages started outstaying their (already hesitant) welcome and things started getting repetitive and claustrophobic and frankly logic-straining. Execution needed to be better esp. in TABFAYW and more scenes/insight between Rapture and that eppie was needed so we could understand what the hell they were thinking.

From:

cosetteferaud.livejournal.com

I agree. I think that TABFAYW was the point where the whole infidelity plot became completely contrived. But UB and EOJ were in character to me and I mostly loved the whole thing (maybe I have some issues with Kara's reluctance to divorce but I give it a pass).

From:

kdbleu.livejournal.com

The same with EOJ, although somewhere between that arc and TABFAYW is where they dropped the ball for me. That is when marriages started outstaying their (already hesitant) welcome and things started getting repetitive and claustrophobic and frankly logic-straining.

I totally agree. Suddenly no one was quite in character or at least not the way I had always interrupted their characters. It never rang true that Lee or Dee stayed married or that Kara went back to Sam without seeming to bat an eye. "Oh, well, guess that didn't work" never seemed very Kara to me, not enough fight I guess.

From:

callmeonetrack.livejournal.com

Alias is so long gone that I don't think spoiler alerts are still necessary. ;)
Michael Vartan, hot but incredibly bland.

See, me? I can't really ship married people. There's nothing there to root for! I mean you know they're never going to get divorced (people don't get divorced on TV very often right?) That's why I never understood the fuss over Mr. & Mrs. Coach really. Too solid to ship. I need some question of if they'll make it, angst, obstacles. etc.

From:

winegums.livejournal.com

Hey, I inadvertently spoiled you for His Dark Materials thinking it was long gone and well-known, so :(. Poor Vaughn, he couldn't help but be bland, lol.

I can't really ship married people either, unless the marriage is fucked up/there is some push-and-pull that makes things interesting (not that that made me root for either of the married couples in the Quadrangle of Doom) with the exception of Zoe and Wash on Firefly, who are probably the lone pair of happily marrieds I would ever read a fic about.

From:

cosetteferaud.livejournal.com

It's not really the aversion to fictional infidelity marriage basically makes any couple THE BEST and their relationship henceforth should be indestructible (with the only decent way to finish it being turncoating/death), even if the reasons for the marriage were terrible ones to begin with.

This, I feel the same. What's the difference between being married and being in a a steady relationship? Why a married couple is better than a not married one? (At least on TV). It's the same to me. As for infidelity... I just don't understand this animosity towards it. I mean, of course it's not right, but the whole thing depends on the circumstances... Cheating doesn't necessarily make you a horrible person *shrugs* But well, I like my characters messed up :)

From:

kl-shipper1.livejournal.com

I mean even in fandom, how many Kara/Sam shippers are there really? Compared to K/L? The numbers can't even approach comparison I would think.

Well, I just checked out FF.net to see how many fics were listed under these pairings...

K/L-- 1131 fics

K/S-- 106 fics

This is not including LJ , or eliminating fics by the same author, but it should give you a good picture that there are a lot more K/L shippers out there.