Daily Pilots Post

[lyras.livejournal.com]

Hi everyone! Firstly, I'm sorry I've been a bit quiet on the commenting front over the past couple of days. It's harder for me to get online at weekends. *eyes nosy boyfriend* I will hopefully catch up with comments later today!

The answers to Friday's 'guess the episode' quiz have been edited into the post, in case you'd like to check them out.

Okay, your final prompt for the week is:

unfinished business

As always, feel free to post anything you like in response, as long as it's to do with Kara and Lee. :)

My final question for you all is: what do you feel are Kara's and Lee's best and worst traits, and how do these traits affect their relationship?

For me, in both cases their worst traits can also be their best, depending on the situation. Kara is so unforgiving (for example, of Gaeta in season 3), but I feel this is because she gives so much of herself in any situation, and she can't understand why others don't do the same. She treats herself just as harshly as she treats others ("Because I'm a frak-up, Lee", she says early on in the show). Similarly, Lee can be ridiculously stubborn, but the points he tends to be stubborn about are those that his sense of honour requires him to uphold.

I think what I love about their relationship in the final two seasons (and there is much I don't love) is the way both Kara and Lee confront the worst about each other and end up in complete acceptance. Kara, in a way, is willing to encourage Lee in his desire to be honourable even when he himself isn't really sure where he's heading. And Lee's unconditional support for Kara in those later seasons just makes me swoon.

Thoughts?

Comments

[rachelindeed.livejournal.com]

Nice analysis! I agree with what you say, though I'm surprised that you don't consider the behavior you've described as disrespectful ("using her husband as little more than a sex object") or selfish ("he decided to get married when he knew the chances of that really working out were pretty slim"). Maybe it's just a case of potato/po-tah-to, but choices like that were what I had in mind when I chose my adjectives :) "Dishonest" is a bit more debatable, I suppose, but Lee did spend time making out with Kara while married to Dee and as far as I can tell never admitted to this and acted like his wife was paranoid when she brought up her suspicions in TABFAYW. The fact that Dee knew the truth about Lee's emotional and physical involvement with Kara doesn't mean that Lee told it to her.

But I digress :) I agree with all your sentiments, and you are right that these particular hurtful behaviors and decisions seem rooted in deeper emotional issues which make them comprehensible and influence Kara and Lee's lives in wider forums than just their marriages.

[damao2010.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I didn't express myself very well. (You are so much better at this than I am. LOL). I didn't mean to imply that their behavior wasn't disrespectful or selfish, but rather that despite that behavior, they were not really dishonest or disrespectful people at heart. Just as Lee can occasionally act like a real jerk but he isn't really a jerk. And Kara can occasionally be extremelly hurtful when deep down she is really a very caring person.

I think they ACTED in a sort of dishonest way towards their spouses (more Lee than Kara) but it wasn't really their intention as their biggest lies were the ones they told to themselves. And they were selfish, but I don't think they realized how much, and because intent is something important, I'd cut them some slack here. I think they did act in a disrespectful way towards their spouses (more Kara than Lee, or at least Kara seemed to do it more often, though we can never be sure since we didn't see as much of Lee and Dee being intimate as we saw Kara and Sam). And this is more difficult to forgive.

I also think, however, that Sam and Dee are not exaclty innocent victims here. They were certainly more respectful of their spouses, probably because their feelings towards them were stronger, but one could argue that they were also dishonest (more Dee than Sam) and selfish. Dee knew Lee was in love with Kara (she might even have realized that before Lee himself was able to admit it). She knew it wouldn't last long (just till Kara or the cylons allowed it to)and she was OK with that (she wanted to get whatever happiness she could, while she could). So when Lee "lied" (to himself and )to her saying he wanted to make their marriage work she tried to play it like she was more of a victim than she really was. Perhaps she decided to lie to herself as well, I don't know. But they were also rather selfish too,because they knew that Lee and Kara were in love with each other but they put their own interests, their own needs of having some semblance of happiness first.

[rachelindeed.livejournal.com]

Very well put! I agree with you on all counts, particularly about the fact that Sam and especially Dee were not simply victims. No one forced them to persist in unhealthy relationships, they made that decision themselves and they seemed quite aware of what they were doing. I think that the Lee-Dee proposal scene offers examples of selfishness on both sides, and I think Dee used Lee for her own comfort both in their marriage and in her last actions before her suicide. Obviously I don't think she was a terrible person because of this, I think she was carrying around a lot more guilt and despair than Lee ever noticed. But that doesn't mean she was blameless for the problems in their relationship.

I actually think the series sprinkles hints throughout its run that Dee was seriously emotionally damaged. I wish they had spent a little time exploring and acknowledging this, but honestly I'm not sure that the writers recognized that the material they were writing for her was problematic. I won't go off on a huge tangent about her character, but suffice it to say that she has always struck me as a person who undervalued herself, who relied on military structures for morale and a sense of worth, and who found it easier to focus on other people's problems than on her own. I think her comment in "Final Cut" that she entered the military because she "wanted to believe in something" and then had to live with the unresolved guilt of alienating her family explains a lot about what she was attracted to in Lee, and also about her desperation to live in the present moment and to willfully ignore the likelihood of eventual abandonment.

It's funny, but I've kind of made her sound like Kara there. Never thought I'd see the day :)