Daily Pilots Post

[dramaturgca.livejournal.com]

Wow, you guys are brilliant and the conversation this week has been awesome. It's been great hosting this week of DPP and I'm looking forward to my next turn in August.

To close out this DPP week, it's a Free-For-All! What do you want to say to K/L shippers? To the pilots themselves? To the world at large?

I would like to say thank you to this amazing community who welcomed me in and I hope we keep going strong. After all, there's a million and one things we haven't written yet!

Comments

Re: Ten Million Points... but should some of them be dropped on the instant recall?

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

I...am not so enamoured of the "I was afraid to admit how much I needed you, how much I needed anyone" bit in hindsight (though I liked it enough at the time) for two reasons:

1) Kara asks him "Are you sure I'm what you want?" and he says "Yes, you're what I want. And I just don't- I don't think I really knew it until I said it out loud just now." but then goes on to immediately talk about himself when she asks about Zak, saying he needs her, etc.. (I really wish he'd told her why she was more than good enough for him and what things made him love her, because I think she couldn't quite believe him without that.)

2) Later when he's making up with Dee in TABFYW, he says "You are good for me, Dee. And I need you. And I don't think I ever really realized that, till I knew that I was losing you." Which... if you think about it, is the exact same thing he did with Kara. Told her he needed her and that he didn't know it until now when she was threatening to leave. And that sucks because he should not feel the same way about Dee and Kara. Sigh.

Re: Ten Million Points... but should some of them be dropped on the instant recall?

[kag523.livejournal.com]

if you think about it, is the exact same thing he did with Kara. Told her he needed her and that he didn't know it until now when she was threatening to leave. And that sucks because he should not feel the same way about Dee and Kara

That. That! THHHHAAAATTTT!!!!!!

It may be my current writing mindset, but that particular reason bothers me even more than the Zak comment. OMG, I had forgotten it (or forced myself to pretend it didn't happen, like the on-the-table-almost-frak).

*shakes head* So wrong. Agreed.

Re: Ten Million Points... but should some of them be dropped on the instant recall?

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

Honestly, for such a good speechifier, Lee is really awful at declarations of love. I mean, his proposal to Dee is the most selfish, wrong-headed, unromantic thing EVER. And his speech in TABFYW to get her to take him back is even worse. He says she's good for him (like medicine!) and that's why he needs her, even though he'll probably always love Kara and then he proceeds to eyefrak Kara across the room as he and Dee hold hands/rub foreheads.

I don't even know... Sometimes I forget what an emotional frakup Lee is too. But then I think about this and remember. Sigh.

Re: Ten Million Points... but should some of them be dropped on the instant recall?

[damao2010.livejournal.com]

"I...am not so enamoured of the "I was afraid to admit how much I needed you, how much I needed anyone"

I love that line as I explained in another post.

"I really wish he'd told her why she was more than good enough for him and what things made him love her, because I think she couldn't quite believe him without that."

I agree with you. In his defense, I repeat that HE didn't know she needed that much reassurance and she didn't really give him time to realize that considering she ran away to get married before he even woke up.

"And that sucks because he should not feel the same way about Dee and Kara"

Well, although the words he used were pretty much the same, I don't think he was really lying to either of them when he said them and I believe he meant different things.

Rachel's analysis of Kara's and Lee's personalities has become my personal canon, so, to quote her again, "the emotional lesson Lee learned [from his abusive childhood]was that he couldn't count on other people". When he said to Kara that he needed her, he was truly opening up to her in a way he probably had never done before. When he said "I don't think I really knew it until I said it out loud just now", I think he meant he had never fully admitted it to himself till then. He knew it, but he refused to accept that truth about himself. Did he not express his idea in the clearest way imaginable? Possible. But then again, that is what conversations are for, when something is not clear, you ask for clarification. If you don't say anything, one would assume the message was conveyed.

Now, when he was talking to Dee, he was talking about something completely different. When he first asked Dee to marry him, right after having been rebuffed by Kara, he said his time with her was the happiest he had been in his life. We don't know a lot about his life before the attacks, so it was probably an exaggeration, but they certainly had good times together, she was good to him. He didn't love her like he did Kara, but he had just admitted he was afraid of needing anybody and the person he needed had abandoned him. Lesson learned: don't NEED (capital words)others, that is not safe.NEED and happiness don't go together.He NEEDED Kara and that made him unhappy. Dee was safe because he didn't really NEED her, he could have a semblance of happiness with her.

Later on, in TABFYW, when he says he needed Dee. His first words were :"You are good for me". Exacly what he said when he proposed. Again, he had been rejected by Kara. Once more, NEED and happiness proved to be incompatible. He needed Dee to maintain the semblance of happiness in his life. He never really NEEDED her. The thing I have trouble accepting, though I understand to an extent, is why he didn't accept it when Kara said she might divorce Sam. But again, communication was the issue.

Re: Ten Million Points... but should some of them be dropped on the instant recall?

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

I don't believe he was lying to them either. I think he meant it both times...but that's why it bothers me. We can fanwank it and interpret it all we want, but it bugs me that the words he says to them both are almost identical. And they make Lee seem selfish honestly. Which I don't think he truly is (though he and Kara both share the tendency to self-absorption obviously). I just think Lee is really, horribly good at lying to himself and telling himself whatever he needs to believe in the moment.

As I said to Kag above, they're both such emotional frakups, but sometimes I forget that with Lee, because he's so functional most of the time.

Re: Ten Million Points... but should some of them be dropped on the instant recall?

[damao2010.livejournal.com]

"they're both such emotional frakups, but sometimes I forget that with Lee, because he's so functional most of the time. "

LOL. He does hide it better. But he is certainly as fraked up as she is.

"They make Lee seem selfish honestly. Which I don't think he truly is."

I agree with you. But one the things I like about BSG is that you can't find the stereotypical hero there. You have lots of really good people (like Kara and Lee) who are as emotioanally fraked up as anybody else.

"I just think Lee is really, horribly good at lying to himself and telling himself whatever he needs to believe in the moment."

Absolutely. ;D
Everybody has their defense mechanisms and they are not usually pretty. In my country, we say (in a free translation) that "under close inspection, nobody is sane". That is so true. LOL

Re: Ten Million Points... but should some of them be dropped on the instant recall?

[rachelindeed.livejournal.com]

Hee! After writing a comment below, I came back up the page and found most of my thoughts once again anticipated :) Lovely analysis, throughout. You and Taragel both give Lee's speech to Dee about need in TABFAYW more a bit more credence than I did ~ but I think perhaps we are all seeing it as a sign of his talent for self-deception. I loved your point about how Dee became safe and desirable once 'need' and 'happiness' once again proved incompatible for him. What a great point!

When my husband first watched the Lee/Dee proposal scene, I told him how much I disliked it and he said, "Oh, I don't know. It seems to fit Lee's particular brand of desperate insincerity."

Desperate insincerity -- not his finest quality, but definitely very much on display at the end of UBEX :)

Re: Ten Million Points... but should some of them be dropped on the instant recall?

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

Heh. Desperate insincerity. Guess he really was cut out to be a politician.

Re: Ten Million Points... but should some of them be dropped on the instant recall?

[rachelindeed.livejournal.com]

Yep :)

I think "Desperate Insincerity" can be the name of his (jazz?) band. They can play the opening sets before "Kara Thrace and Her Special Destiny."

End of the World Free Concert! With Political Round-Table to Follow!