[identity profile] dramaturgca.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] no_takebacks
Thank you all for your comments on crossovers. It definitely made me think.

For today, we turn to meta. When I say meta, I mean the broadest possible definition of the word. Academic thoughts, thought provoking character analysis, unstructured commentary, whatever thinky thoughts you've got about Lee "Apollo" Adama.

For me, Lee has seemed to be the character with the most complete arc in the series. He starts off somewhat naive, alienated from his father, with very clearly defined standards of right and wrong. By the end, he's a deeply complex character who has learned how to fit into a world that makes no sense. RDM described Lee at least once as the moral center of the show, the conscience if you will. While he always maintained a belief in "right", his idea of what constituted right seemed to flex and expand (witness his reaction to the contaminated basestar). For me, I have felt that Lee's ending in Daybreak is at least in part because he became such a complex and human character that the writers didn't have a good way to conclude his character arc.

What do you think? What's fascinating about Lee Adama as a character?

[Preview: Yes, tomorrow will be Kara meta. Feel free to start thinking about it!]

Date: 2010-07-16 05:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scifishipper.livejournal.com
Ah, Lee.... My favorite character by far of any show/movie - ever. *sighs*

I remember watching the show and feeling incredibly connected to Lee's struggle to do the right thing under unspeakable circumstances. Time and time again, he is thrust into situations where weaker, more morally ambiguous men and women might falter. One of the things I love about him is his bravery - not in the face of physical injury, but his bravery to do what he feels is morally appropriate. Yes, at times, he does this because of *his* judgments about right and wrong. But, in the end, I think that's all anyone has - to make a set of judgments about a situation and to choose an action that falls in line with those judgments. His judgments make sense to me most of the time and fit in line with many of my own beliefs about right and wrong. So, for intensely personal reasons, his character speaks to me.

I also remember that he was the center of the show for me, followed by Adama, then Kara. (Recently, fandom has shifted my perspective and I am now much more focused on the ship than Lee himself. That said, it's nice to consider Lee as a character again.) I always felt that Lee and Adama were very morally grounded, although Adama's decisions were often made with a nod to his military training while Lee's were based on his personal set of beliefs and often against the mores of the military.

In thinking back, I remember being struck by Lee's loneliness. I know he never really made with the puppydog eyes or acknowledged his loneliness, but aside from Dee, I don't think he really ever spoke to anyone about his feelings. Even Kara, whom he loved, never really got to know how he ticked on some levels. Thinking about it now, it reminds me how much I dislike that Dee left Lee because he decided to defend Baltar. I imagine better from her (WRITER!FAIL) because she alone had an opportunity to really understand him. In my mind, she did - but on the show - not so much. Funny, though, that Kara seemed to understand his moral side a bit more clearly than Dee and never seemed to find it strange that he defended Baltar (although who knows since they were separated at the time and forever).

But I digress. I am attracted to Lee's passionate beliefs because they are tempered with thoughtfulness and sensitivity. Yes, he rages about right and wrong, but he always takes personal responsibility for his own flaws. He rarely points the finger at someone else without first pointing it at himself. (There are exceptions, of course, because he is also wonderfully flawed). I respond to passionate people who know what the believe and don't falter. I feel drawn to Lee's own struggle to think about right and wrong and admire his ability to use rationality over emotion.

In general, I have a hard time with morally ambiguous characters. While I might enjoy their antics, they are not people I'd probably be too comfortable being around. Lee gives me a sense that despite all of the horribleness in the BSG-verse, he will always be the same. I'm guessing there's a lot of arguable territory with that statement, given the writer!fail in S4, but even as his character changed from pilot to prez, I think he was able to maintain his moral center. That was enough for me.

Date: 2010-07-16 06:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] damao2010.livejournal.com
"I also remember that he was the center of the show for me, followed by Adama, then Kara. "

Me too!!!!

"His judgments make sense to me most of the time and fit in line with many of my own beliefs about right and wrong. "

That's it.
Everybody acts according to their own code of values and sees the world (and "judges" it) based on these lenses. It is inevitable. I just happen to agree with him a lot. And I admire that stood up for what he believed. And he struggled to live up to his own ideas of right and wrong. Of course, he didn't always succeed, but what makes someone remarkable is not the things or characteristics they are born with but what they decide to do it. The journey you decide to take with life. Not so much where you started from or where you get to in the end.

Date: 2010-07-16 06:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rachelindeed.livejournal.com
I feel about Lee much the same as you and damao2010 do, and I really enjoyed reading your thoughts on him. I feel like I instictively "get" Lee a lot of the time, and I often agree with him, and even when I don't agree I admire him for being thoughtful and ethically serious and willing to face his own mistakes and question himself and others. And I'm proud of him when he takes an honest stand for the things he has come to believe in, especially when he knows that decision will make him unpopular.

*And* I love the lines he draws when he opposes a person for the sake of a principle. He will protect Roslin from his father's coup, but he won't go so far as to publically denounce the Commander to the wider fleet. He will resign his commission, but he won't testify about a private conversation that would discredit his father in court. He will oppose Roslin's draconian legislation, but privately plead with her to win over the Quorum before she faces a vote of no confidence.

I like the way he can oppose people while remaining loyal to them in the ways that really matter. I love the moment right before he leads the Roslin jail-break, when he visits his Dad for the last time in sickbay. He rests his hand on his father's pillow - not touching, but so close - and says "I'm sure you won't approve. I guess that's nothing new. But I just want you to know, this isn't about you and me."

To me, moments like that are a big part of what make him so complicated and so appealing.

Date: 2010-07-16 07:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scifishipper.livejournal.com
He rests his hand on his father's pillow - not touching, but so close - and says "I'm sure you won't approve. I guess that's nothing new. But I just want you to know, this isn't about you and me."

I had forgotten about that moment. Thank you for reminding me. I love him so much. Squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Date: 2010-07-17 12:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rachelindeed.livejournal.com
Your icon in this comment totally makes me squee!! Thank you for sharing the Adama love :)

Date: 2010-07-16 07:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] damao2010.livejournal.com
"I like the way he can oppose people while remaining loyal to them in the ways that really matter."

Word.;D

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