DPP: Vent at Joe's Bar

[rayruz.livejournal.com]

Hey, I know I said I was going to post a two day thing? Eh... I changed my mind! :D I'm not sure if we've done this one before but I figured I'm going to go for it anyways. Tomorrow's post is going to come a little bit late in the day and I might do the two-day challenge then, because it's a little involved and takes a bit more time.

Anyways, what are we venting at Joe's about? 

Unpopular Pilots (and other Fandom) Opinions.

I thought some of these might be coming up since we've been thinking so much about the scenes and the voting. Ever feel alone in what you think? Are you afraid to speak your mind sometimes because the other shippers don't agree with your opinion? Well pull up a barstool, get a drink, and spill it. Bartenders are, of course, the everyman's therapist.

Comments

OH GOD THIS MAKES ME SO NERVOUS

[coffeesuperhero.livejournal.com]

I, uh, like Sam.

Hear me out! I don't want him to end up with Kara. Kara and Lee are never going to let go of each other, and I love that about them, and I wanted them to get their happy ending with each other so much that I still get ragey thinking about that damn finale.

But... I like Sam. I wanted him to live and (assuming Earth had a civilization of people already on it) find a nice Earth girl (or guy) to settle down with or something, maybe teach people to play pyramid or something.

It's weird that I feel this way now, because I hated him so frakking much from the moment that we saw him that I actually got on IMDB to see how many eps he was in, because I was hoping he kicked it and went away. I may have thrown a shoe at the television when Helo was all, "Oh, Kara, you're so in love with this guy now, your life has changed and stuff." (That is, ah, heavily paraphrased, mind.)

So like, I totally understand the hate. I don't know what happened, or when my opinion changed. Maybe during the New Caprica/resistance arc? Idk. I think I like him because I feel like when it comes to Kara, Sam is always going to lose out to Lee. As someone who thinks that Kara and Lee are Made For Each Other, that pleases me. As someone who usually roots for (the person I perceive as) the underdog, that confounds me.

So...that's my confession. Forgive me, fellow shippers, for I like Sam. How many Hail Kara's do I have to say? ;)

Re: OH GOD THIS MAKES ME SO NERVOUS

[thrace-adama.livejournal.com]

Aw, girl, no need to be nervous. You are far from alone on this. I can't say I personally am a big Sam fan--though I like him more now with some perspective and think Trucco is awesomesauce--but there have been lots of Kara/Lee shippers over the years who either also ship Kara/Sam or don't mind the Kara/Sam and like him in general.

Re: OH GOD THIS MAKES ME SO NERVOUS

[coffeesuperhero.livejournal.com]

WHEW. ::HUGE SIGH OF RELIEF::

Yeah, I'm still not sold on the way they started the K/S arc, and I don't know if I ever will be. It's a little, "Hello, left field, we found your Love Quadrangle!" for me, lol.

Re: OH GOD THIS MAKES ME SO NERVOUS

[ninjamonkey73.livejournal.com]

I agree for all of the above reasons. Hated him to start and really wanted him to have a non-dead/non-Kara ending by the finale. But don't tell the others. Oh, wait, they can read this? Frak. :)

Re: OH GOD THIS MAKES ME SO NERVOUS

[coffeesuperhero.livejournal.com]

Frak! RADIOLOGICAL ALARM!

Lol, thanks, girl! I feel better knowing I'm not alone.

Re: OH GOD THIS MAKES ME SO NERVOUS

[rachelindeed.livejournal.com]

Yup. I'm with you. I never wanted him to end up with Kara, but I thought he was a genuinely nice guy and he kept surprising me throughout the series. There was more there than I initially thought. And though I don't ship Kara/Sam, I think that relationship had some genuine chemistry, and I even understand Sam's approach to Kara and the reasons they kept coming back to each other. They felt like a casual, easy fit and I think Kara wound up caring about him a lot more than she initially expected to. Kara/Lee is my team, I can't cheer for any other, but I wished Sam the best. And I was really delighted when he and Lee supported each other after Maelstrom, that was awesome.

Re: OH GOD THIS MAKES ME SO NERVOUS

[coffeesuperhero.livejournal.com]

I think Lee pushes Kara in a way that Sam doesn't. Sam, to me, is Easy Like Sunday Morning, while Lee is more Hit Me With Your Best Shot. I can see how the former would sound good to someone after the worlds have ended, but I think Kara needs (or thinks she needs) someone who kicks, because she kicks, too. I like the equal and opposite reaction of Kara and Lee's relationship. I think it works far better for them than Kara/Sam does.

I love that scene in Maelstrom, and I love the way Trucco approached it. Way to be dedicated to your part, man.

Re: OH GOD THIS MAKES ME SO NERVOUS

[rachelindeed.livejournal.com]

Very well put. I like Easy Like Sunday Morning versus Hit Me With Your Best Shot, that just about sums it up. At the end of the day, Kara and Lee are equals, which is a big part of what makes them good for each other.

Re: OH GOD THIS MAKES ME SO NERVOUS

[coffeesuperhero.livejournal.com]

Exactly. I think that's why they'll always be my team-- they're perfectly matched.

Re: OH GOD THIS MAKES ME SO NERVOUS

[kag523.livejournal.com]

Just a thought based on your comment: "I think that relationship had some genuine chemistry, and I even understand Sam's approach to Kara and the reasons they kept coming back to each other."

When I saw a few of the scenes where Sam just kept accepting the crap that Kara was dishing out to him (peaking near Eye of Jupiter), I actually commented "Wow, Sam has some kind of creepy cylon-love thing going for Kara". And then - *ta da!* - it turned out he was.

An actual reason for his behavior? No. But still interesting.

Re: OH GOD THIS MAKES ME SO NERVOUS

[kag523.livejournal.com]

I like this post, and I think I feel probably much the same. I totally ship Lee / Kara but Sam's "niceness" if you will, made me torn with his ending.

Don't feel guilty... you aren't alone. I wanted him to kick off from about the first episode when he showed up, but I still thought he was likable.

Does this make me bad? Well, frankly I might be. (See my comments regarding Dee for more evidence.)

Re: OH GOD THIS MAKES ME SO NERVOUS

[coffeesuperhero.livejournal.com]

Oh, good! I was a little afraid of being drawn and quartered. I've seen it happen in other fandoms and it ain't pretty! :O

Aww, I like Dee, but we can agree to disagree. Sometimes you just don't like somebody. (I can't stand Zarek, for example. He can die in a hole, gods.)

Re: OH GOD THIS MAKES ME SO NERVOUS

[cosetteferaud.livejournal.com]

Personally, I never hated Sam, I always though he was an uni-dimensional character, but fundamentally a decent guy who loved Kara unconditionally. But that's also what was wrong with him because there was always that nagging feeling about K/S that Kara could never grow with a partner like him. He accepted her wholeheartedly, which is lovely, but never pushed her to be better or overcome all the things she hated about herself that caused her so much pain. And that’s essentially why I don’t like the K/S dynamic –especially in S3 and S4.

Re: OH GOD THIS MAKES ME SO NERVOUS

[rayruz.livejournal.com]

I just think that Sam was poorly handled as a character. I go back and forth on whether I like him. I find him so much more interesting when his plot line does not revolve around Kara... when it does I think he's... well... a doormat and a dumbass... but I liked him on New Caprica, I liked him in The Plan... he still felt a little bit stock action hero guy... but I just wished they'd done something different with him.

Also I think he and Kara were a good fling. But spouses? Epic fail, show. Epic fail.

Re: OH GOD THIS MAKES ME SO NERVOUS

[olaf47.livejournal.com]

I think Sam was *very* poorly handled as a character. I think I could have really liked him and his relationship with Kara, except the writers made him too safe. Everything was too easy with him, he took what Kara gave him and gave her whatever she was willing to take.

He was almost a Mary Sue to me. I love him on his own because he is easy and safe and strong and beautiful. But it almost seems that his only flaw is that he's not Lee (and that cylon bit). So I don't really like what they did to him--they could have deepened his character, given him so much more--but I love him still.

(Also him becoming a hybrid is bullshit and the biggest cop out in the world.)

Re: OH GOD THIS MAKES ME SO NERVOUS

[(Anonymous)]

I agree with all of this so much!
Trucco seems absolutely lovely but Sam just didn't interest me at all. I don't dislike him but he just doesn't have anything for me to bite into, not a lot of depth and those glorious contradictions that make interesting characters. I know people disliked Dee (I'm not a huge fan either) but I thought she was more layered than Sam anyday. I't this sort of balance of weaknesses and strength that they gain through these weaknesses that I love about pilots and Sam's too much of a stereotype for me to get excited about.

I had hopes about him being a Cylon, but it turned out htey just added general nervousness and vague anxiety to the mix and it wasn't enough.

I also have to say that Kara is less interesting to me when she's with him, because there is noone antagonizing her.

Re: OH GOD THIS MAKES ME SO NERVOUS

[latteaddict.livejournal.com]

I adore Sam too. I think if Kara had ever left him they still would've remained friends. Kara and Sam were never about deliberately hurting each other. And my ideal ending for Sam would've been a happy life on earth with Jean.