DPP: Vent at Joe's Bar

[rayruz.livejournal.com]

Hey, I know I said I was going to post a two day thing? Eh... I changed my mind! :D I'm not sure if we've done this one before but I figured I'm going to go for it anyways. Tomorrow's post is going to come a little bit late in the day and I might do the two-day challenge then, because it's a little involved and takes a bit more time.

Anyways, what are we venting at Joe's about? 

Unpopular Pilots (and other Fandom) Opinions.

I thought some of these might be coming up since we've been thinking so much about the scenes and the voting. Ever feel alone in what you think? Are you afraid to speak your mind sometimes because the other shippers don't agree with your opinion? Well pull up a barstool, get a drink, and spill it. Bartenders are, of course, the everyman's therapist.

Comments

Re: Unpopular Opinions

[rachelindeed.livejournal.com]

Hee! Your unpopular opinions entertain me, thanks so much for sharing them.

I think Lee was largely unlikeable in the miniseries ~ purposely so, in fact. So I'm not shocked at all by that opinion, I quite agree. Jamie Bamber said something about that in an interview way back when, that one of the things he liked about Lee was how much room he had to grow. He said something along the lines of: "When we started out, he wasn't what I expected at all from the young hero. He was chippy, and adolescent, and not sorted." I think that describes miniseries!Lee to a T, plus it's charmingly British (I love Jamie Bamber!) The director of the mini even says in commentary that he gives kudos to Jamie for playing Lee with an edge of unlikeability. There are a few scenes in the mini where you see his potential - the brig, "the lady's in charge," slowly hugging his father back - but also lots where he's just plain being a jerk. Though I have to admit his delivery when his Dad starts to ask if he's alright and then switches to asking about his plane and he just says, "We're both fine. Thanks for asking" gets me every time. Sometimes bratty!Apollo is fun. But no, although I always *wanted* to love Lee, I didn't *actually* love him until Bastille Day. That's when I understood what was remarkable about him. It's interesting that you saw him as a pure Viper jock early on, actually. I don't think I ever saw him as that - if anything he seemed unhappy to be stuck in Vipers for most of the miniseries and didn't relish battle the way Kara did, and in 33 it was clear he wasn't confident and needed to be pushed into settling into his leadership role. He questioned himself more than most characters, even from the earliest episodes. That doesn't say "jock" to me - Kara always seemed to fit that image more in my eyes, though that was never all she was.

I also think Sam was telling the truth. I don't think Kara was incapable of fidelity and commitment, but I think she was pretty casual about that particular relationship (except in moments of crisis), and I think she was miserably unhappy in her own off-screen way for much of that year.

I have sympathy for Dee, though I think her suicide was selfish. The writers suggested that she walked into a - not completely loveless, from her perspective, but definitely not honest or truly loving - marriage with her eyes wide open, and that speaks to me of desperation. She lived like she was dying all the time; she focused so much on others in part because I don't think she liked looking at herself very much. She tried to take charge of relationships and be the voice of reason because it gave her a sense of worth, I think; I truly think she felt she had to be useful to be valuable, and in part that may explain why she gravitated to Lee over Billy - helping him was a way to be more important, more useful, more valuable. It's a messed-up way of thinking, but all these people are messed up. I don't think she and Lee knew each other very well, I honestly don't think they paid that much attention to the people they really were underneath the people they pretended to be. But I'm sorry for her because she was betrayed and unloved and she had to live through hell over and over, and because she ultimately despaired. I think it was cruel to use Lee for a last artificial burst of happiness without thinking for one second of how it would make him feel when she killed herself, but people who have reached the point of suicide are incapable of contemplating how their loss will hurt others. I'm sorry for her, and though both of them made terrible choices I still think Lee has a lot to answer for in the way he handled that relationship.

Tigh as a Cylon - it did come out of the blue, and it's *really* hard to imagine him as being some kind of scientist inventing resurrection technology, but I enjoyed the fallout so I didn't mind :)

Re: Unpopular Opinions

[kag523.livejournal.com]

I really enjoyed your commentary on Jamie Bamber and the way he was willing to play up the unlikeability aspect! To expand, (and explain), my "viper jock" comment is actually based on Lee's behaviour during the first scenes were he lands his viper on Galactica. Galen Tyrol is trying to talk to him, and Apollo pretty much just blows him off. 'Jock!' was my thought when watching it. Later, in the pilot ready room, Apollo has an irksome moment when asked to fly his father's viper. Its these two scenes that are my basis for the comment.

Does that mean anyone (besides me) needs to agree. NAAAH! But that tells you where I'm coming from.

You ROCK, by the way, Rachel! I always LOVE LOVE LOVE your thoughts and opinions. Seriously, I want to steal your brain next time I'm working on a fic. LOL

Re: Unpopular Opinions

[rachelindeed.livejournal.com]

You don't need to steal anyone's brain writing fic, you are putting us all to shame! Bravo!!

Also, I can completely see how those two establishing scenes spelled "jock" to you, he really does come off as clearly thinking he's too good to be on this creaky old ship, and it was seriously NOT COOL of him to take out his annoyance on Tyrol and/or his fellow pilots. If you want to yell at Dad, Leland, then yell at Dad, don't deflect and make everyone else pay for your bad mood.

I think the end of the world was good for him. The boy needed to grow up fast.