DPP: The Best Scene Bracket

[rayruz.livejournal.com]

Hey guys, I know it's early but I wanted to get this up before I went to bed! Well, it's May 24th somewhere... rayruz  here, I’m taking the DPP reins for the week. Now I’m going to be hosting your regularly scheduled discussions and games, but at the same time, I’m going to be running a little bracket as well. Namely….





This is how the bracket looks. We’ll have voting on Round 1 on Tuesday, Round 2 on Wednesday, Round 3 on Thursday, Round 4 on Friday, and the final smackdown on Saturday with reveal of the best Pilots scene on Sunday.

This is what the bracket’s going to look like. I know I didn't get EVERY scene, but I picked most of the major ones

ETA: There has been a change to matchup number one! Please see below. ALSO Today is pure discussion, not voting. Voting will begin tomorrow. A poll will be posted. Thank you. Continue to enjoy. 

Now, I don’t mean favorite. I mean BEST. I want you guys to think about the implications of all the scenes. Take into account all aspects of the scene, things that it leads to, possibly deleted lines, things that we like to forget about the scene (Remember that the guy in the GIF we love so much is actually Gaius?). Here are the contenders and matchups for Round 1! Debate! Discuss! What all do you think is the BEST scene?

Match 1- Intro To Pilots



VS



Back from the dead versus Smack You in The Mouth. Our introduction to Pilots. Some people dove in and watched from the mini onwards… some of us didn’t quite want to devote 3 hours to something that they had no clue if they’d like. Which scene do you think serves our Pilots best?

Match 2- Pilots at Play



VS



Prepping for a party or prepping for security detail, these two still manage to find the fun at the end of the world. Even if there is symbolic red paint of death…

Match 3- Always Come Back



VS



Here we have two instances of Pilots coming back to each other. Kara saving her own ass in You Can’t Go Home Again… and Lee returning from pulling off a couple of beyond insane moves himself.

Match 4- Colonial Day (and then some)



VS



The Dress scene, versus the Fakeout sex scene. Both of which reveal

Match 5- Homecoming



VS



I’m mean. Yes I’m mean. I’m going to make you pick between the Welcome Home Kiss and the No Takebacks Scene.

Match 6- Once the cat’s out of the bag…



VS



You can tell that there’s something a little more charged between Pilots after Lee’s little slip of the tongue on the Astral Queen.

Match 7- Pegasus



VS



Apollo and Starbuck making themselves a pain on Pegasus, or Kara and Lee having each other’s backs?

Match 8- What’s there?



VS



I know I only have pics from the drinking scene but this includes the “Nothing there…” conversation… it goes all the way until she slams the hatch in his face. And then of course we have the famous “Are we okay?” scene.

Match 9- Unfinished business



VS




Meanness again. YES. Pick between the match itself and the flashbacks. Which is the better Pilots scene?

Match 10- The Affair



VS



Is it the Eye of Jupiter makeouts (Where Lee won’t cheat and Kara won’t divorce)? Or is when Kara finally asks the question: if she leaves Sam, will he leave Dee?

Match 11- The Eye of the Storm



VS



Their discussion in the memorial hallway? Or under the wing?

Match 12- After the storm…



VS



Lee, when he’s unable to put her photo on the wall? Or the look on his face when miracles happen?

Match 13- Hello, Goodbye



VS



Which says more about our Pilots? The way Lee runs to Kara when she comes back. Or the way he just can’t say goodbye without a kiss.

Match 14- Finding Earth…



VS



Dealing with loss, potential loss, personal loss, private loss… Pilots are there for each other. Discuss.

Match 15- After all this time…



VS



The MUTINY. Starbuck and Apollo back in action once again. Or is it that he’s Lee and she’s Kara and the rest of it isn’t worth a damn?

Match 16- THE LESSER OF TWO EVILS



VS



Okay, I’m ACTUALLY going to make you pick between the flashbacks and the poof. Which one is the BETTER scene? 



THERE WE GO.

There are you contests for Round 1. Now let’s hear what you guys have to say. Try to persuade others to take your side. Have fun with it. Be back tomorrow with the poll and another discussion… but I’ll be around to play devil’s advocate. >:}

Comments

[shah-of-blah.livejournal.com]

Okay, I’m ACTUALLY going to make you pick between the flashbacks and the poof. Which one is the BETTER scene? 
My first response: "Oh, frak you!" ;)

But seriously, this sounds like lots of fun. Do we get a prize or something if we guess the end result?

[amaliak.livejournal.com]

I'm taking bets!!! (see my comment below!)

[rayruz.livejournal.com]

Bet amongst yourselves, I wasn't planning on having any official betting, but I was hoping you guys would.

[lotus79.livejournal.com]

interesting. so we vote for one from each match, right?

[rayruz.livejournal.com]

Yes, voting will start tomorrow

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

So, we're making sixteen choices for round one? (it's late. my face is firmly planted in palm)

Any special format?

Oh, and this is motherfrakking hard in the best kind of way! I can't even get past match 1. These are toooooo hard. *gnashes teeth* :P

[rayruz.livejournal.com]

There will be a poll tomorrow.

Also, matchup 1 has changed.

[amaliak.livejournal.com]

wait, is this where we vote? or will a poll follow?

Ray, some of these match ups are EVIL. like, really evil.

HAHA. I love it!

Also, I can't BELIEVE that the Mini "you're not dead" handshake didn't make the Season 1 cut. ;P Plus, I'm also a fan of THE towel scene. Because you know that Kara totally took a good look (haha j/k).

I'm so excited about this.

WHO WANTS TO PLACE BETS??????
(Fanfiction. Bets begin @ 10 words.)

cheers.
--Lex

[rayruz.livejournal.com]

Poll will be tomorrow!

I know, I know. I should've put the You're not dead, up there... I think you're right... hold on I'm going to make that change.

[kag523.livejournal.com]

Exciting! (and frustrating) I'm obsessively writing right now, How will I have TIME to do this??? Sheesh!

Can't wait to see what happens!

Votes, Part 1

[ecstaticdance.livejournal.com]

Match 1 - I vote Smack You In The Mouth. Both scenes are great, but (and I think this will end up being a theme in my votes) to me the Viper Sex theme is more about Kara than it is about Pilots. Yes, they're interacting, and it's nice to read it as Kara saving Lee's ass. But it's also possible (probable?) that she's saving the ass of another pilot just because she can, regardless of who it is. They all know that anyone who isn't on the ship is dead. I suspect she'd have done the same for Duck or even Kat if Kat had been a pilot at that time. Because that's who Starbuck is. She leaves no man behind if she can do anything about it.

Match 2 - This one is harder. Finger painting was SO FUN! And it gave a good glimpse into the playfulness that Lee and Kara brought out in each other. Colonial Day was playful and fun, but we also got a bit of seriousness and Planning!Pilots -- I think it showed more depth of their overall characters. I think I'm picking Water Fight. Because it does show more of them, while still capturing the playfulness.

Match 3 - Again, hard, but I think I'm going with the scene from You Can't Go Home Again. That one is about Kara and the other is about Lee, but You Can't Go Home again is also about Pilots as a collective -- he just *knows* that it's Kara in that Raider and while the duct tape explains what's going on, it's his gut that tells him it's true even before she climbs out -- where the Hand Of God scene is really all about Lee. There was tension and anxiety, and Kara's Damn proud of him when he gets back from that mission, but there wasn't that connection/drawing together that I saw in You Can't Go Home Again.

Match 4 - The Dress Scene gets my vote. As fabulously hot as the sex scene is, it's all about Kara and her repressed feelings. The Dress Scene is about Kara and Lee and their feelings for each other and how they tie each others' tongues and have fun doing so -- again, it's about Pilots, collectively.

Match 5 - Yes, you're evil. But in a good way. I think part of what makes this one so hard for me is that in a lot of ways I see them as parts of the same arc/event. It opens with the kiss, and closes with Kara telling him that he can't take it (the "I love you," but also the kiss) back. So I think from that perspective, I'm going to have to go with No Takebacks as the better/more defining scene.

Match 6 - I think Oxygen Deprivation. Sexy Poetry was fun and flirty, but I don't think it did/would have lasting repercussions. Saving each others' lives, though... That would run deeper. Especially for these two, with all their history and baggage and Kara's particular concern about destroying everyone and everything she loves.

Match 7 - Having Each Others' Backs. Being a pain together is hot and fun, but didn't really do anything with regards to Pilots as Pilots. I mean, it possibly/probably led to some angst re: Kara's promotion and Lee's demotion. Likely some post-shooting angst on Lee's part, as well (See also: You get away with shit and I'm left cleaning up the mess). But ultimately, they were just being the Outcasts. Having Each Others' Backs was about Pilots being there for each other. It led to Lee's major angst about not being there for Kara and I think was ultimately part of what pushed him away from her and toward Dee (especially when you combine it with the whole debacle that was the aborted sex in Scar). He had to look back and see that, see that he'd failed to be there for her and maybe that's why she didn't feel she could trust him to be anything more than a good lay.

Re: Votes, Part 2

[ecstaticdance.livejournal.com]

Match 8 - Ack, ack, ack! Ummm.... Okay. Bright shiney futures and porch swings and hot out-making and aborted sex featuring cock-blocking dead guys and insane amounts of denial vs. Pilots coming as close to opening up and being honest as they ever do and coming back to each other because they just can't help it. I... pick Are We Okay?. For the honesty. I know there's a lot of subtext and a lot of denial still happening, but they're trying and they're communicating and they're being as honest as they know how, given what they've seen (or more specifically not seen in their lifetimes) of open, honest relationships. And it's pilots coming back to each other, even if they can't get it right. Whatever happens, even if they can't admit what they feel, they can't help coming back to each other.

Match 9 - The moonlight/flashback scene shows them at their most vulnerable. Open and honest and listening and walls down and... I'm actually not a fan of the yelling to the sky bit. But that aside, it just puts everything out on the table and they really come completely clean about where they stand. Or at least Lee does. But Kara never manages to fess up to how absolutely terrified she still is by the enormity of what it is between them. So I think I need to say The Match is the better scene. Because Kara puts it out on the line, and they *both* admit how important they are to each other. No reservations, no hedging, nothing held back.

Match 10 - GAH! I actually have a love/hate relationship with both of these scenes. I understand the reason they both fell out the way they did, and deleted lines and etc. I love where they were going, but they both have that one little moment where one of them throws up a wall out of habit or fear or self-preservation instinct that just... didn't need to be thrown up. Raptor Make-Out is the hotter scene, no question. "If I go will you" shows Kara taking the initiative with Lee which is... pretty much unheard of elsewhere in their relationship, so gets points for that. Can I take a pass on this one? Alright. Raptor Make-Out, because of the intensity of the emotion, and because it leads to Lee's "If she dies, I'll let you [kill me]" line with Sam.

Match 11 - Would you believe that I have only vague recollections of the hallway discussion? Based exclusively on the grounds of how memorable the scenes were for me, I'm voting Under The Wing for this one.

Match 12 - The look on Lee's face When Miracles Happen. Because the scene at the memorial wall is about Lee, and how he feels about Kara, not about Pilots as a collective. And it doesn't move the story forward. It reviews what's gone before.

Match 13 - This one is tough. I think I'm going with the Brig Kiss, though. I love the running across the hanger deck. Completely love it. But it's about Lee. Kara doesn't have a clue, and while her little "yeah, me too" is nice and speaks volumes, it's outweighed by everything else that's going on in that scene. The Brig Kiss is about Lee and Kara and where they were and are and mean to each other. Because he really can't just walk away, and she can't let him.

Match 14 - Both of these scenes show a lot about how Pilots have grown and matured. Both scenes show Kara stepping up and being supportive. But I think in a lot of ways the Post Dee's Death scene shows regression on Kara's part. While she's grown enough to not make it All About Her (which is huge! Don't get me wrong!), she's also repressing her needs and desires. I see why it happened, and can't imagine it happening any other way without resenting that Kara didn't recognize Lee's loss, but I think it was a step backward in their development. So, Walk Those Halls gets my vote for best scene in this pairing.

Match 13 - Vote for the Brig Scene Goodbye!

[aurora-0811.livejournal.com]

Do we vote here or will there be a poll? I'm a little confused so I'm just going to campaign for one of my favorite pilot scenes ever. MATCH 13. Hello vs. Goodbye.

BRIG SCENE GOODBYE FTW. First of all while the hello scene is beautiful and he can't wait to get to her, they are totally interrupted by Sam. Now nothing against anyone who likes Anders but NO thank you. I like my pilot moments free from spousal interruption.

The brig scene is just about the most epic moment ever for them. Emotionally they are completely honest with each other "I think I know what you meant about having a destiny", "I never could say no to anything" "Except me" "Especially you"., "Good luck on your journey Lee Adama".

Then to top it off she calls him back. Kara Thrace breaks down that wall she fights so hard to keep up and calls him back! Lee is her rock, he will always be there for her and she knows it. He will always believe in her and he doesn't fail to lift her up when she needs it most.

The kiss is IMO their best kiss ever. It's passionate and filled with everything they don't have enough time to say. They touch each others faces and brush foreheads and there is hand holding. It calls back to all the tender pilot moments.

Not to mention the extended scene where Lee gives her the Aurora figurine that his dad gave him, that she gave his dad. All that one little figure symbolizes...family, hope, promises, love and it continues to come full circle for her with the Adama men.

Basically it's awesome. You know it, I know it and the world knows it. Ok cheering campaign over. VOTE GOODBYE FOR MATCH 13!!!!

Re: Match 13 - Vote for the Brig Scene Goodbye!

[aurora-0811.livejournal.com]

and I needed to give it a little extra visual love too.

(http://s272.photobucket.com/albums/jj185/aurora811/BSG%20Season%204/4X04%20Six%20of%20One/?action=view&current=0007xd3d-1.gif)

(http://s272.photobucket.com/albums/jj185/aurora811/BSG%20Season%204/4X04%20Six%20of%20One/?action=view&current=foreheadtouching.gif)

(http://s272.photobucket.com/albums/jj185/aurora811/BSG%20Season%204/4X04%20Six%20of%20One/?action=view&current=Aurorafigurine.gif)

[somethingusual.livejournal.com]

Ok, I should be lesson planning not doing this so I'm going to be brief:

Match 1: Smack you in the mouth

Match 2: Hose fight

Match 3: Couldn't have done it better

Match 4: The dress

Match 5: No takebacks

Match 6: Running out of clothes

Match 7: Trust

Match 8: Why don't we

Match 9: The match

Match 10: Outmaking

Match 11: Whatever it takes

Match 12: AATW

Match 13: Have to go

Match 14: Sometimes...

Match 15: Mutiny

Match 16: The Flashback

OK, very brief I know. Perhaps I'll come back later and describe why.

[lotus79.livejournal.com]

Match 6: Running out of clothes

*raises eyebrow* Did I miss a vital component of that scene or was that a freudian slip?

[lotus79.livejournal.com]

Match 1: you know what? It was actually the brig scene that hooked me onto pilots rather than the vipersex one. Though I liked vipersex too. I would definitely go with smack you in the mouth though. Love the way Kara tells Lee off for letting her get away with insubordination, hehe. Classic.

Match 2: Oh so hard to choose! I think the hose scene just edges the paint out for me, cos, you know, there's contact. And wrestling. But then the paint scene has nice juxtaposition with the explosion that follows. So in terms of best I think I need to say the paint scene but it's hard.

Match 3: YCGHA. Because Lee is so relieved to see her safe!

Match 4: Yeah, I think the bum knee gets it for me. Fake out sex has Baltar, eww.

Match 5: Difficult! But the kiss. It just suprises both of them so much. Though I love that the no takebacks thing was all adlibbed!

Match 6: Another toughie. I think I like the rifle range, though Kara quoting poetry is just supercute.

Match 7: The first one. Not that I don't love the trust and the hug and the having each other's back! I just love that Lee sits and takes the new CAG's shit while Kara mouths off (exactly as predictable, IOW) and then Lee the Sneaky, knowing Kara the Loudmouth as he does, has got her the camera and equipment to go and do what she does best (i.e. break rules and save the day.)

Match 8: Silly question. Really silly. SCAR!

Match 9: I like the way they juxtapose with each other, so this is hard. But seriously, how can I not pick the flashbacks? The fight is nothing without the flashbacks.

Match 10: EoJ, though (surprisingly!) not just because of the outmaking this time! Angst is my thing. And tragedy. And this is perfect tragic angst - they are utterly hoist by their own petards. The second one, while tragic in that he now says no when she says yes... doesn't work for me because I don't believe Lee choosing Dee over Kara, ever. I love Dee to bits, but no.

Match 11: Another toughy. The raving lunatic line is one of my favourites. And I don't like Lee saying he's all happy with his wife when it makes little sense given the evidence... but I do like the full circle thing of the CAG and the problem pilot with the huge unspoken thing that still is and always has been/will be between them. So under the wing. Just.

Match 12: TSAR! No contest again - I was crying buckets at that scene. Kara reappearing was anticlimactic for me (mainly because I was spoiled, but still...)

Match 13: OMG YOU ARE EVIL! These are my two favourite scenes. I can't choose! I won't choose! YOU CAN'T MAKE ME CHOOSE!

Match 14: I DO like that Kara goes to Lee with her problem, and then that she recognises he isn't in the right frame to deal with it. BUT I like the first one better. Especially that fourth picture - it's so nicely framed with her leaning on the desk half looking over her shoulder. It kinda made me question my sexuality a little bit.

Match 15: The mutiny. Because they do the wondertwin thing again, and kiss, and Starbuck saves Apollo's ass. A (momentary) return to the things I love about this show! Not that the hallway scene isn't sweet and nice.

Match 16: AAARGH. I choose the flashbacks, because I can pretend the table didn't happen. The rest was awesome. The poof was utterly irredeemable.

[rayruz.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the opinions. Just so you know, actual voting begins tomorrow. There will be a poll.

ETA: Pilots also made me question my sexuality... although, it was Lee's doing, not Kara. I knew I was queer. I just didn't know I was bi.

[elzed.livejournal.com]

Wow - impressive amount of work there ma'am. And tough choices - I shall mull it over ahead ofthe poll...

[acsgrlie.livejournal.com]

1. Vipersex. Loved Kara's recklessness but there was no way she was going to leave Lee behind and Lee secretly loved her for it.

2. Tough one but I'm going with Prepping for security detail. It's such a rare moment that we get to see our pilots having fun and for me the scene on Cloud 9 was more Lee/Kara than Apollo/Starbuck.

3. Definitely YCGHA. The whole episode of Lee's determination to rescue her and his excited face when he read the bottom of the raider just spelled out his love for her.

4. The Dress scene.

5. No Takebacks. The kiss itself was great but it kinda gets pushed away by Sharon showing up. I love Lee teasing Kara a bit and then becoming real sincere with her knowing that something must've happened on Caprica.

6. It's terrible but I can't really remember the "running out of clothes" scene so I'll choose the Running out of air scene. I love this hot of both their hands gripping the gun.

7. Having each other's backs. It was nice to see Lee and Kara being sneaky and smart but the second scene is all about them being there for each other no matter what. I love how Lee's like "you know better than to ask me if i'm with you. OF COURSE i'm with you."

8. Are we okay. Coming back together.

9. ooh EVIL! I love how carefree and happy they are in the flashbacks and their declarations of love for each other but there's so much good angst and feelings in the boxing match. I choose the match. Finally forgiving each other and admitting their feelings in front of other people, in front of Sam and Dee.

10. Epic makeout.

11. Under the wing. I love how everything kinda comes full circle before Kara goes boom! They're right back where they started.

12. Miracles happen. You know he's not going to lose her anytime soon.

13. The brig kiss. I love how he hugs her in the hangar deck but I think the goodbye kiss says more about their relationship. How he believes her when no one else will, she's actually happy for him with how he's moving on and he just can't leave without kissing her goodbye, knowing they'd see each other again.

14. Revelations.

15. I absolutely love All that matters. He doesn't care who or what she is, just that she's Kara.

16. Geez, I say the Flashback. We see the moment that Lee and Kara are always stuck, I mean for frak's sake it's their first time meeting each other and they almost cheat.

[rayruz.livejournal.com]

See seeing that the moment they're "stuck" is precisely why I hate that scene. I think they could've gotten past it if RDM hadn't been so nuts about trying to piss off the fans. Not a good story. In some ways, I prefer the poof because it reminds me of Angel.

Just so you know, actual voting starts tomorrow.

[cosetteferaud.livejournal.com]

Ray, this sounds like a lot of fun! You know, some of this matches are just IMPOSSIBLE!! (I will come later with some commentary, I have yet to think about my choices, it's too hard!).

[rayruz.livejournal.com]

Heee, I like being mean and making people pick!!

[ninjamonkey73.livejournal.com]

Fun! I can't even begin to guess which way this will shake out. And you have left some very EVIL choices to be made. I better start thinking about the first round or I'll never decide tomorrow!

[rayruz.livejournal.com]

Mwahahahaha

[damao2010.livejournal.com]

LOL. What a great idea! And a what a great selection of scenes! It is going to be very difficult to decide, especially given your guidelines - not favorites, but best. I don't have time to really get into it right now. I'll try to do it later.

Part One...

[rachelindeed.livejournal.com]

Wow. I'm so impressed with jeneviverose's masterful and fair-minded analysis of these scenes, she's very convincing.

If it were up to me, these would be my votes:

1) I prefer the miniseries reunion to the "smack you in the mouth" in 33. The bright blue-white light during this scene is unusual and lovely, and their restraint around each other in the midst of the surrounding kissing montages says so much about who they are and their tentative but deep feelings for each other. I love their awkwardness and warmth, and the wonder in their eyes as they stare at each other and hold hands and forget to let go. And the opening of the scene - that tiny smile that Lee gives as he catches sight of Kara under her Viper, and his casual "Hey," - it's just such a perfect, undramatic return from the dead, it's awesome.

2) My vote for playful pilots goes to the Cloud 9 water fight. It's just so nice to see them in sunlight, it feels like they're on summer vacation. And I love that Lee tries to explain the politics and Kara cuts to the chase ("she's already running for reelection) and then cuts off further debate with a water gun. This is totally what their relationship would have been like once his own political career started.

3) I adore the Hand of God homecoming (especially the way Lee makes Kara repeat her compliment, and then just smiles and says, "Well, thank you" and toasts her with a clink of wine bottles as well). But I agree with jeneviverose that the Raider scene in YCGHA is a better scene for pilots as a whole; the wing waggle and the "flying with serious attitude" are so joyful, and I must admit I love Kara's attempt to let Lee get closer to hitting her and then her panicked "OK, not THAT close!" :) Plus, the way she swoops behind him and then emerges flying formation is a lovely mirror to her return from the dead in her Viper in Crossroads Part Two.

4) Colonial Day - the once in a lifetime opportunity gets my vote, no question. It's that awkward warmth I love so much from season one, and Lee is *so* not smooth that it's endearing, and I love their little dance where Kara does an adorable girly shimmy. That whole sequence is so cute, and classy, and heartbreakingly short.

5) No takebacks for the win!! I *adore* this scene. I love the sweet, earnest part of their talk (and the first "I love you" between them), and the immediate teasing and recriminations. You can just feel that this was ad-libbed, it has such wonderful energy and charm. Kara's little "OK" when she spins the ball and widens her eyes at the end is the most endearing thing ever.

6) I'm going to vote for the poetry recital, because Kara is so irresistable (Can I be a suspect again? Please?) And because it shows the artistic side of her that we keep discovering throughout the series (painting, poetry - both writing and reading it - and music). Plus, I don't know why, but the shooting range scene plays a bit awkwardly somehow. Maybe I just don't believe Kara would get that silly that quickly?

7) I will vote the "we have to have trust" scene over the crafty good officer/bad officer hijinks. I think this scene was wrenching, and touching, and had one of the best hugs ever. And I also think it was emotionally important in its aftermath - Lee betrays this trust, in a moment of despair and paralysis, and I think that is the real beginning of his downward spiral. The fact that Kara doesn't blame him is interesting - but he blames himself. It was one of those rare times when his conscience actually paralyzed him - he couldn't stand to leave Kara on her own, but he couldn't bring himself to become an accessory to murder, as he saw it, either. He wanted to go down fighting Cylons for the sake of the human race, not helping the few humans left to tear each other apart or gun each other down. So he just let go and tried to let a chance accident take him out before he had to act one way or the other. It was cowardly and selfish, and he knows that even if Kara doesn't really understand what happened.

Re: Part One...

[ecstaticdance.livejournal.com]

Re: 1 -- I'm still torn! The subtext of the Return From The Dead is amazing and it's definitely sweet and fabulous. It does a great job of showing how the whole world can just disappear for these two and nothing else that's happening around them matters. And that point echoes through the show -- Colonial Day, Home (specifically The Kiss), the actual twirly dance in UB, Kara's return from the dead at the end of Crossroads... But does Smack You In The Mouth possibly show more of the breadth of their relationship? How the world doesn't have to disappear for the two of them to light up the room and multiply the energy for everyone? How they can be in the middle of hell and still find a way to take care of each other without coddling and to make each other smile?

And maybe the answer is that it ultimately depends on what you think serves Pilots best? I think I see the divide thus: Back From The Dead shows us the romantic potential of Pilots. Smack You In The Mouth shows us the relationship potential of Pilots.

I think I'm going to argue that while the romance is lovely, my experience has been that if you want a romance to last you need to be compatible beyond the first exciting flush of romance. So while I absolutely adore the cute, sweet, awkward Back From The Dead, I think Smack You In The Mouth is still the better Pilots scene.

[ecstaticdance.livejournal.com]

Nooo! Now I have to re-think Match 1! This is a much harder match up.

Also, someone talk to me about Match 11! Am I missing something momentous in that Memorial Hall scene?

[rachelindeed.livejournal.com]

Darn it...your eloquent analysis of miniseries vs 33 is making me rethink my answer. I'll have to ponder this further.

There was nothing epic in the memorial wall scene in Maelstrom, but it had some lovely dialogue between them. It started with Kara asking Lee where he wanted his picture to go when he "bit the big one." She told him she wanted to go next to Kat - "a pain in the ass but a hell of a stick to have on your wing" - and he said he'd like to go next to Duck and Nora (who died on New Caprica) - "Good card players. Nice way to spend eternity." - They make a deal that whichever one dies first, the other will see to it their picture goes in the right place. It's very pilots. Then Kara asks Lee whether his father is going to ground her, and he tells her his father says it's the CAG's decision to make.

Kara: "Ah. And what do you say?"
Lee: "I say I trust your eyes over DRADIS any day of the week. Something could have been there, vanished in the cloud cover."
Kara: (looking vulnerable): "So you don't think I'm nuts?"
Lee: "I didn't say that. You're a raving lunatic - as demented and deranged as the first day I met you."
Kara: (grinning): "And you're a bastard."
Lee: (shrugs affirmatively)

The scene concludes with Lee saying something supportive and mother-hen-like while Kara begins to notice that the wax dripping down from the candles is forming into a mandala at her feet.

Part Two...

[rachelindeed.livejournal.com]

8) Scar versus Captain's Hand???? You can't seriously make me eliminate one of these masterful scenes in the very first round, can you?! These would both be near the top of my list of best pilots scenes. But since I am cruelly forced to choose, I would keep The Captain's Hand. I love it when they talk out their problems - they are oddly mature in this scene, though of course they fall back into infantile teasing to reassure each other that things are back to normal. I really love the way they fight, actually, both in Scar and especially in Captain's Hand - their mutual anger doesn't cut off communications between them. They *tell each other what they are feeling and what their problems are* and that is a really good sign that their relationship is growing, oddly enough.

9) In UB, I think I prefer the flashbacks to the fight (the way they wordlessly edge into their first kiss gets me every time, and the way they pull back after a moment to silently check with each other and make sure that everything's OK). But if we are dealing with UBEX then I would switch my vote to the fight, because although I love many of the flashback extra stuff, I also dislike some of the added moments and dialogue, whereas I am a total sucker for the added dialogue at the end of their fight ("Let me go!" / "Why? So you can hit me some more?" / "Yeah." / "I may not be able to walk in the morning." / "I think you busted my nose." / "How about we call it a tie?" / "Okay.") SQUEE.

10) I hate the entire affair storyline, so I'm going to have to recuse myself from this vote. I would get rid of the whole thing if I could. I don't like watching them treat their spouses like dirt. I don't like watching their relationship be selfish and hurtful. But I also don't like watching Lee decide to repair his marriage only to have the next significant scene between him and his wife be her dumping him because he stood up for his principles, while meanwhile Kara continues using her husband for bootycalls and little else. Ugh - this whole thing was a mess to me, personally.

11) Maelstrom - I, too, love the memorial corridor dialogue, but I've got to give my vote to the under the wing scene. So masterfully underplayed, so subtle, so beautifully shot. "Whatever it takes." And I think this scene is thematically interesting because in some ways it brings their story full circle with an interesting reversal of roles: I think the choice Lee makes here is somewhat similar to the choice Kara made about Zak. Both were given evidence that the person they loved most might need to be grounded (though I think Kara's evidence about Zak was a lot more unambiguous than Lee's evidence about Kara - she should have told him she was actively hallucinating). Both of them were scared of what losing flight would do to their beloved's identity and happiness, so both took a risk and put them back in the air, even though Zak gave Kara an out ("I don't want special treatment") and Kara gave Lee the same ("I'm not going back out there. I don't trust myself.") Both pushed their loved ones to get back in the cockpit, each thinking that they would be able to stay with them and make sure that if anything went wrong they would come out of it all right. And of course, both lost their lovers and realized what a horrible mistake they had made in not grounding them when they had the chance. I wish we had seen more of these emotions and their aftermath on screen (as it is, this is mostly speculation), but I suspect that Lee understood what it *felt* like to be Kara a lot better by the time she came back, which may help explain the instant establishment of a more empathetic, more mature and less angsty dynamic between them in Season 4.

13) Brig scene. Dude. If this doesn't win #1 I will eat my hat.

Re: Part Two...

[kag523.livejournal.com]

Your answer for 11 - WOW!

I may have to write a fic entirely based around that.

Again - WOW!

Part Three... Sorry! Last one, for real!

[rachelindeed.livejournal.com]

14) I vote for the "Sometimes a Great Notion" scene because the emotions are so powerfully underplayed, once again. I love the acting in this scene, and the way Kara shows her unselfish love by respecting his loss and soldiering on through her own confusion and trauma alone. The memorial wall scene in "Islanded" is a beautiful pay-off ~ once Lee finally does find out about the craziness that has taken over her life, he responds in the best possible way. They come through for each other, and both are willing to set aside their own immediate desires and needs to help the other get through the pain and confusion and larger obligations they are struggling with. That's not regression, that's growth.

15) Mutiny versus Memorial Wall in the first round??!! Again, unfair. I am voting for the memorial wall because I can't have both, but we all know both belong in the top five pilot moments :)

16) Given the choice between table or poof, I will take the poof every time. One of the main things that bugs me about the K/L flashbacks in "Daybreak" is that they don't feel real. One thing I always loved about Kara and Lee's dynamic from the first was that it was clear that they knew each other really well, they worked together beautifully, they teased and challenged each other - they were friends and you got the sense that their attraction couldn't help but build and build given the overwhelming strength of that foundation. They had so much in common, and even their differences were invigorating. The Daybreak flashbacks said there were no foundations but physical attraction and alcohol - they didn't have time to be friends first, they didn't have time to get to know each other. The flashbacks tried to convince us they did instantly know each other with a few exposition-heavy scenes in which Zak supposedly stripped away Lee's veneer to expose the essence of his character (a cynic?) while a few shots loosened Kara's tongue enough for her to spill her deepest secrets within a few hours (she wants glory more than life?). But this doesn't feel like real friendship, it doesn't even feel like real romance. It feels TV. Kara and Lee were not TV. That's why I love Academy fic and/or hanging-out-with-Zak-over-a-long-summer fic to explain how they gradually got to know each other and fell in love without realizing it was happening. They needed time to make me take their emotions seriously, and the flashbacks took that time away. Blegh. Plus their treatment of Zak was appalling. Double blegh. The poof was a poorly executed attempt at transcendence and tragedy, but I find it far easier to live with and/or interpret my way out of.

Sorry for once again talking so much. One day soon I will learn to be concise...

[stripes13.livejournal.com]

OMG, you are evil! This is such a great post, but it's going to be IMPOSSIBLE to choose!!!

[shah-of-blah.livejournal.com]

Okay, I'll give this a shot...

1) I'll take "thought you were dead" from the mini. Although I did see '33' long before I got around to actually watching the show (starting with the miniseries) I didn't connect with Lee and Kara until the mini. While the "smack you in the mouth" scene is great fun, I think that the long handshake and extended eye contact is a more powerful introduction to pilots. My shipper heart also adores the way their reunion is placed alongside the other romantic scenes--Chief and Boomer, Billy and Dee (if I recall correctly)...and pilots. They're not outmaking like the other couples but they might as well be.

2) Hose fight. Not much to say here. I just like it better than the finger painting, adorable though it may be.

3) This one was a little tougher, but I chose "couldn't have done it better myself." Although YCGHA is one of my favorite episodes, and I adore the flying scene, as a scene I think it is weaker than the Hand of God scene. The "It's Starbuck!" moment is wonderful, but it doesn't really tell us anything that hasn't already been said in the episode. Lee's happy she's back--well yeah, he nearly cried on the phone with the president earlier. Kara saves herself--yes, she just spent a whole episode doing it! On the other hand, when Kara gives Lee the cigar and says she couldn't have done it better, it's a real moment of growth for her and for them.

4) The fakeout or the dress? No contest. The dress. It wins on the grounds of being real.

5) Making us choose between these two scenes from Home is cruel! But after some deliberation, I think "no takebacks" is the winner. I mean, there's a reason this comm is named after it. Plus, I heard that the kiss was not in the original script, that it was Jamie Bamber's idea (he's such a shipper). And somehow I prefer the scene that was actually intended as a development in their relationship.

6) Running out of clothes or running out of air? Running out of air, hands down! The Final Cut scene is cute and banter-y, but we pilots saving each others' lives by working in concert, and cuddling afterwards? How can you beat that?

7) Trust. Come on, how can you not love the Resurrection Ship hug? I will use my icon of this scene. "Take pretty pictures" is nice and all, but it doesn't compare to pilots hugging each other and trusting each other with this terrible burden. Just think about the way Kara turns into the hug in a rare moment of vulnerability, and the way Lee just wraps her up.

Okay, I've got things to do. This will do for now. :)

[kag523.livejournal.com]

Love your answer for #3 in particular the statement of "when Kara gives Lee the cigar and says she couldn't have done it better, it's a real moment of growth for her and for them". Such a perfect statement of how far they come in that episode.

Awesome!

[damao2010.livejournal.com]

Okay, here are my thoughts.

Match 1 - The "smack you in the mouth" scene. I have explained my reasons in a post above.

Match 2 - I so missed the kind of playfulness they used to have in the beginning. * sigh*
I was leaning to the finger painting scene for pretty much the same reason I chose the "smack you in the mouth": what it revealed about their behaviour at that point - Lee trying to learn to be the CAG; Kara, pushing, teasing and supporting him. However, after reading Rachelindeed's arguments in favor of the hose scene, I have to agree with her. It does show more of their personalities and I can totally see that kind of interaction taking place after Lee went into politics.

Match 3 - I'd vote for Lee's succes on the tylium mission. I simply adore the other one but I guess there is nothing really new there. We already knew that Starbuck is the best pilot ever, she is the maverick jock that always finds a way to save the day and that Lee loved her deeply.Besides, their reunion is more touching for personal rather than professional reasons. The other scene, however, continues to establish the kind of relationship they have (love, respect, challenge, support, relief the other is OK ), but there is a new element: Lee is capable of out of the box thinking and he can be the maverick who pulls crazy stunts. His success is moving for both personal and professional reasons.

Match 4 - Well, Jeneviverose said that the dress scene is "so cute, and classy, and heartbreakingly short" and it does get points for being real. But my vote goes to the fakeout sex scene because though the other scene was adorable and it opened so many possibilities, the fact was that the fakeout gave us more clues as to how frakked up their relationship really was and about the deepness of the issues that would keep them apart.

[damao2010.livejournal.com]

Match 5 - "No takebacks" hands down. Everything is there - friendship and love, forgiveness and support, tenderness, playfulness, jokes to difuse deep feelings. I really loved that the kiss when Kara returned, though. It showed to everybody who wasn't blind just how affected he was to have her back and that he loved (and didn't care who knew about it).

Match 6 - The poetry scene. It gives us new information about Kara - she does have a soft side. Besides, their playfulness is not induced by oxigen diprivation and complementing each other's actions to survive is par for the course with them.

Match 7 - I really loved the Pegasus arc. And I absolutely adore to see Lee defying authority. But we already knew he was capable of doing that and that Kara would not hesitate to go along. We also knew by then that Lee and Kara were always there for each other but most of the time we have Kara supporting Lee. The fact that he would stand by her when he felt so strongly against everything that she was asking of him, tells a lot about their relationship. And it played an important part in his future bout of depression. Also, that line about trust is one of my top ten.

Match 8 - "Are we okay?", definetely. Because at the root of their relationship is the fact that they always find their way back no matter what, no matter how hurt they have been, they will always forgive each other eventually.

Match 9 - The flashback. Because it was (probably) their only time together.

Match 10 - The making out in the raptor. Because it is so damn hot and full of possibiities... and because the other one I still have trouble accepting. lol

Match 11 - The conversation under the wing. Because they are strangely at peace with each other as they hadn't been in a while and because it is supportive Lee at his best. Again, they always find their way back to each other in some capacity.

Match 12 - When Lee is unable to put her picture on the wall. Because it is heartbreaking. And he can't accept her death. And because her return from the dead was the beginning of the plotline I have more difficulty to accept.

Match 13 - The brig scene, hands down. It is just perfect. It has everything they are about. And it has actions and words. (And one of the most loving kiss scenes in the history of TV).

Match 14 - I haven't made up my mind yet.

Match 15 - "I am Lee. You are Kara. And that's all that matters". It is one the most beautiful love declarions ever. Period.

Match 16 - I hated the poof. It didn't make a lot of sense to me. I didn't like that plotline. Kara deserved more than that. On the other hand, I really liked the flashbacks. Yes, I know they were not very nice to Zac. But they were drunk, they were able to stop themselves before it went beyond insane. And the whole point is that they were meant to be together. THAT was their destiny. From the very beginning. How adorable is that?

Match 16

[kag523.livejournal.com]

Interesting how you are one of the few willing to go out on a limb and take the make-out scene over poof. I'm still not sure how I actually feel about either scene... but I REALLY like your explanation of "they were meant to be together. THAT was their destiny. From the very beginning."

Makes me see that scene a little differently than I did five minutes ago. Hmmm... That's good writing!

[antismiles.livejournal.com]

Awww, all this talk about how hard this is is making me feel bad. I went down the match-ups and made all my choices within 10 seconds. Now I don't know what that says, if it's good or bad. :/

(I'm going to be so disappointed if my choices don't win.)