DPP: Comparisons

[rdave1.livejournal.com]

In the past DPPs we’ve discussed movies, in which pilots could replace the actors, characters from literature that embody the spirit of Kara and Lee. 

A co-worker and I were discussing yesterday (her ship and my pilots) when the couple faces so many obstacles in their life/relationship, the “happy ending” makes the pain worth it. In our case, pilots faced so many demons and were becoming the people they needed to be to have a relationship and that was taken away without reason. In short, their trials and tribulations came to no fruitations.

So today’s question is have Kara and Lee become the bar where all other couples/ships get rated because of the ending we got? In most shows, in the end the couple gets together so does it make their obstacles a little less validating? Do you compare your current ships, previous ships, movie ships to Kara/Lee’s level of epic love? Does the thought “OMG! K/L had it so much worst, stop complaining and just get it together” cross your mind?

Also, I’m curious to see everyone’s top 5 epic couples/ships of all time. They can have a happy ending. Just explain why the order.

Comments

[ninjamonkey73.livejournal.com]

Excellent question! I'm going to have to stew on that one for a little while. :)

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

I think that if the writers had brought them to a "together" kind of ending, it would have been pretty satisfying to me, because I always felt like their story together in BSG boiled down to not just wanting to be with each other, but not being able to really live without each other. They couldn't function well when they were estranged. (Is it unhealthy and codependent? Yeah, probably, but I don't care because they're post-apocolyptic fictional characters. ;)

As far as obstacles, I think their greatest obstacles were always within themselves, but I sure had more tolerance for their faux marriages/love interests when they were used as what they really were: contrivances to keep the OTP apart. It was the times when the show tried suddenly to imbue these other relationships with greater love/feeling than they warranted that I really got annoyed (TABFYW, Disquiet, Daybreak 2 for Kara/Sam--although I still think the thing that annoys me most about their final scene is the recycling of the "see you on the other side" line and the comparison of the goodbyes for Kara's two ships).

What's most frustrating to me about their ending is that it didn't reflect any kind of growth at all for these two people, as if they didn't deserve to grow and change and find peace with each other. And that really pissed me off.

My top five OTPs:
1) Kara/Lee--I don't think I'll ever love a ship as much. It just hits all the buttons for me because they are everything to each other: friends, family, lovers, enemies, partners, soulmates, etc.

2) Joey/Pacey (Dawson's Creek)--the only other show I've been so fannish about! I loved S1 Joey so much and Pacey is just, to this day, the most perfect TV boyfriend ever.

3) Katniss/Gale (Hunger Games)--They remind me so much of Kara and Lee that this one is kind of a gimme, but there's also the added bonus of being childhood friends, which is a trope I love. I adore that Katniss can "only be herself with" Gale. I love that as much as he hates the rebellion and wants to fight for humanity, his first instinct is that he wants to run away with her.

4) Anne/Gilbert (Green Gables)--I adore their story so much, how they changed and became friends and finally admitted their love and married and had a family.

5) Polly/Tom (Louisa May Alcott's An Old-Fashioned Girl)--My favorite trope of childhood friends becoming more over the course of the years, and Tom's quiet respect for Polly and her shy delight when he confides in her is so adorable. I love seeing them grow into responsible adults and finally get together.

[cosetteferaud.livejournal.com]

(Is it unhealthy and codependent? Yeah, probably, but I don't care because they're post-apocolyptic fictional characters. ;)

LOL. Well, I don't think this co-dependence is necessarily unhealthy... It just comes as a natural thing when you have so much in common with someone imho.

I still think the thing that annoys me most about their final scene is the recycling of the "see you on the other side" line and the comparison of the goodbyes for Kara's two ships

THIS. Don't me get started with this... So terribly unfair.

What's most frustrating to me about their ending is that it didn't reflect any kind of growth at all for these two people, as if they didn't deserve to grow and change and find peace with each other. And that really pissed me off.

Oh, word... I formed such a strong emotional attachment to K/L and their journey as individuals and as a couple that this lack of growth was really disappointing. It's been a year and it's still difficult for me. Their story feels... unfinished, somehow, and it's so frustrating.

[cynicalshadows.livejournal.com]

Anne/Gilbert! I loved them so much, especially in the tv miniseries. They just had so much chemistry.

[rdave1.livejournal.com]

not being able to really live without each other

I absolutely agree with this. I think as much as they drove each other nuts sometimes, they had a calming effect, a sense of peace or home with each other. I wouldn't say that they coudn't function when they weren't with each other but they weren't at their best. It's like their conscious wasn't there to tell them if they were doing something wrong.

I think one of their greatest obstacle was themselves. They needed to come to terms with who they were as individuals and also accept the other person as who they were without any expectations. By the time they reached that point, sadly they weren't worth it.

I hated the fact the fact they used K/L line for K/S. I just makes me mad.

[owldark.livejournal.com]

as if they didn't deserve to grow and change and find peace with each other. And that really pissed me off.

Totally with you there. I keep going over an over in my mind what was happening in the writers' room at that point. If I was tasked with writing an end to one this epic, complex space opera I would never choose to show 2 of the main characters not actually growing in a relationship with each other.

I think as a writer you have a duty to the audience - if they've invested in a ship and a pair of characters, and if you've spent time building up that ship, then you *have* to pay it off somehow. I'm not saying they needed a happy ending (hell, I never expected them to get one) - but they (and we) deserved a palatable, emotional piece of writing where the characters came together.

/rambly

[baciami2.livejournal.com]

What makes Kara & Lee unique for me is they are my first ship! And after all the pain & angst of the finale, I feel as if they'll be my last. I've never been so gaga, gob-smacked, *gggggggg* over any fictional couple before. When I first logged onto the Skiffy board, I had to look up "shipper" iat urbandictionary.com to figure out what it was. After RDM's total disrespect, I'll never trust another piece of "entertainment" again to deliver on its promises. *sigh*

The finale of Lost is comiing up. I'm looking forward to it, but only a tad more than "mildly" as I'm feeling the Damon & Carlton only have a wee bit more respect for their viewers than Ron&Dave did. I mean, Sun & Jin are apart for three seasons before they're only briefly reunited. Say what? (to quote Cavil, teehee)

[cosetteferaud.livejournal.com]

And after all the pain & angst of the finale, I feel as if they'll be my last.

That's exactly what I think :)

[rdave1.livejournal.com]

I think you summed everything up really well. When I first met those two, I went in guns blazing into fandom. I needed everything to catch and what everyone else thought about episodes and such. I found a group of people who had the same amount love and craziness for the pilots.:)

After RDM's total disrespect, I'll never trust another piece of "entertainment" again to deliver on its promises.

I totally agree with this. It's hard for me to get excited about another ship because I don't want to get my heart handed back to me in pieces. I suppose that's why I compare them to pilots and the reason for this post.

I do hope the Lost finale is what the fans want. I haven't watched in a while but did they kill Jin? I heard the fans were pissed to say the least.

[cosetteferaud.livejournal.com]

I have always considered myself a shipper –I’ve been shipping fictional characters all my life--, and I am always drawn to romantic relationships in any story… As Tara above, my favorite trope is the best friends who become something else. I just love this sort of dynamic, probably because a belief of mine is that a profound friendship should be the root of any romantic relationship… But truth is that even though I have always shipped, Lee and Kara took my shippiness to a whole new level. I think I will never love any couple as I love Kara/Lee.

Also, I don’t think their epicness is a result of the lack of a happy ending for them… On the contrary, their epicness comes from their journey together (of course the apocalyptic setting helps a little… But they’d have been epic in a more mundane scenario, that’s for sure). I think their dynamic is what makes them so extraordinary and compelling, the fact that they represent everything to each other but can’t embrace their feelings precisely because of it. They are epic because their story is an honest, raw portrait of romantic love. They are challenging on so many levels. Awful but wonderful. And of course they have all those obstacles that keep them apart… I love angst --and K/L have plenty--, and that’s possibly the reason that made me fall so hard for them… But paradoxically, the most frustrating thing about them is that all those buckets of angst didn’t mean a thing in the end… What was the point of their story since they didn’t have a proper resolution? All that pain for nothing? But well, I have been thinking that maybe part of what makes them so epic and unforgettable is that lack of closure… I mean, look at me, it’s been more than a year and I can’t let them go!!

(as for ‘ships… I have had plenty of them, but I’d call them “minor” ships, because all pale in comparison with Lee and Kara, my one and only OTP: Joey/Pacey (Dawson’s Creek), Felicity/Ben (Felicity), Buffy/Spike (Buffy), Mulder/Scully (X-Files), Doug/Carol (ER), Rose/Jack (Titanic), Catniss/Gale (The Hunger Games), Anne/Gilbert (Green Gables), Rogue/Gambit (X-Men), Elizabeth Bennet/Mr Darcy (Pride and Prejudice), Jamie/Brienne (ASOIAF), Watanabe/Midori (Norwegian Wood), Nana/Yasu (Nana), Noah/Allie (The Notebook)… And the list goes on and on and on :D)

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

Ben/Felicity! I forgot them briefly! You know it's interesting because it's hard for me to think of shippping in terms of books and movies. Especially if it is just one book or movie. A series is a bit different, but if it's only one book/film, your total length of experience with the couple is only for the time of that book/film.

I feel like to get fannish about something I need a lot of time, so TV shows or a series of books/movies would have to do it.

[jeeshee.livejournal.com]

I recently picspammed my top 5 ships (http://jeeshee.livejournal.com/246531.html), although since Glee came back I've gone off the Will/Emma boil!

I think all of the ships I listed have common qualities - a deep friendship as well as attraction, lots of UST and complications that prevent them being fully together! Only one of my ships is 'wrapped up': Sam/Annie from Life on Mars (UK). I hope it's not too spoilery to say that in their series they had a happy ending (well, depending on your interpretation, slightly, and discounting what Ashes to Ashes tells us). This definitely gave their relationship and in fact Sam's entire story a very nice rounding off.

I wouldn't say I compare to K/L that much, though. Every couple I ship has something unique to them, and although pilots will always be my number one I don't find their lack of closure (however annoying in terms of their stories) impacts on my other ships.

[rdave1.livejournal.com]

Lovely picspam.

Deep friendship growing into something more seems to be common thread amongst many of the other ships mentioned. I haven't watched Life on Mars, so I'll take your word on that. I did hear that the UK version was better the US remake.

It's interesting! It's nice to see how much impact K/L has had in other aspects of our tv viewing. Does it ever bother that less well written ships that you may have get closure then Kara/Lee who were so well defined early on?

[amidala-thrace.livejournal.com]

I definitely compare my ships, and in fact doing so actually helped me to come to a point where I was able to accept the finale. Not necessarily like, but accept, and not be so bitter about it anymore.

You see, my other primary fandom is the Star Wars fandom, and in that fandom, my primary ship is Obi-Wan Kenobi/Padmé Amidala. Not only is Obi-Wan/Padmé not canon, it's also one of the most hated ships in the SW fandom. So a few months back when I was contemplating the BSG finale, I thought to myself, "Why am I so bitter about Kara/Lee's ending? Obi-Wan/Padmé never even got a canonical KISS, let alone make-out time and an actual sex scene!" (Not that there would be sex scenes in SW, but you get the idea.) And I realized how lucky I was to ship Kara/Lee, a couple that got kisses, gropes, UST, a sex scene, and way, way, WAY more than Obi-Wan/Padmé EVER did or ever could have. Not to mention the fact that there are actually people in the BSG fandom who like Kara/Lee, whereas proclaiming yourself to be an Obidala shipper in the SW fandom gets you much the same reaction as saying you eat cute fluffy kittens for breakfast every day might. What can I say, coming from SW fandom to BSG fandom, I felt spoiled. ;)

My top 5 pairings:

1. Obi-Wan/Padmé: Always will be my number one top romantic pairing EVER. Sorry, K/L, but it's true. What I like most about this couple is that their ideals and life goals are so similar, so complimentary, that you can see them forming a connection to each other and a close relationship based on that alone. They are healthy for each other, good for each other, which I suppose is something you might not be able to say about K/L, but whatever. Obi-Wan is very similar to Lee, at least in my view, so it's got that going for it as well. ;)

2. Kara/Lee: They're screwed-up, they're angsty, and they were ultimately doomed, but they have a connection to each other as well, and my shippy brain could not overlook that when I became a BSG fan. I loved them for their potential when the show was still on, but after BSG ended, I started seeing different sides to them, things that I could love even knowing how everything turned out. I just love Kara, period (much as I love Padmé) and Lee is such an interesting character to me. :D

3. Han/Leia: They are sort of a proto-Kara/Lee, and I LOVE them. Were it not for the fact that I ship Obidala and K/L like crazy, Han/Leia would have been top of my list. You've got snarkiness, banter, a small bit of angst, and awesome chemistry. Love, love, love.

4. Picard/Crusher: Some of you will understand what I mean when I say I shipped this couple way before I even knew what shipping was. I am a Trekkie, born and bred, ever since being introduced to it by my father at the tender age of five. P/C too were ultimately doomed (gee, are we sensing a pattern here or what?), but again, you can see the chemistry and the rightness and oh, the angst. And I didn't spot any of that as a kid and I STILL loved the idea of them together. Now that I think about it, they have elements of Kara/Lee as well, in that Beverly was married to Picard's best friend for years and years while Picard was secretly in love with her, and then her husband died on his watch and he had to be the one to tell her. I guess I am rather predictable in my shipping choices, and was that way very early on. ;D

5. Anakin/Padmé: Yes, I do happen to be a multishipper in every fandom. Hee. This one is canon, so you get to see is actually happening, though the resolution leaves something to be desired even though you are expecting it. It's got that trainwreck-can't-turn-away quality about it, and angst by the bucketful, both of which I happen to enjoy.

Honourable mention has to go to Kara/Sam ... I need at least ten spaces for all my favourite ships!

[rdave1.livejournal.com]

After reading this, I feel bad complaining about Kara/Lee. I can definitely see where you are coming from, when you have a ship that's not even recognized (by fandom or canon) the lack of a satisfactory conclusion doesn't hold much weight.

You might hate me for saying but I've never gotten into SW, haven't even seen the movies.

Feel free to add more of your ships if you like, I figured 5 seemed like a good number. Hey do 20 if you like.:)

[eternal-nomad1.livejournal.com]

I sort of had a complex relationship with shipping before I even knew what shipping was - the first couple I was really into broke my heart at the tender age of 11, way before I knew what shipping was, so for a long time I shied away from it. I did enjoy a few more doomed and not-so-doomed couples along the way, but nowhere near with the same intensity. Looking back, one of the reasons I was so into Kara/Lee was because I came to BSG during a very difficult time in my own life, and I could project some of my hope for a good outcome onto them. Thankfully, my own issues resolved in a much better manner than Kara/Lee. So, my favorite doomed and not-so-doomed couples of all time:

1. Lymond/Philippa from The Lymond Chronicles by Dorothy Dunnett - mega-angst, lots of baggage, internal and external issues, war, politics, betrayal, and did I mention the mega-angst? But in the end they manage to overcome everything and let themselves be happy, so that's why I put them at number 1.

2. Kara/Lee - well, what is there to say? I think the thing that annoyed me most about the outcome was that they both submitted to the great annoying destiny thing, when I wanted them both so much to overcome it and rescrue themselves.

3. Bussy/Diana from The Countess of Montcereau by Alexandre Dumas. This is the couple that broke my heart at age 11. They overcome all sorts of obstacles, you think everything is going to be fine, take a deep breath, turn the page and everything goes to hell in a handbasket. Typical 19th century novel gimmick, but I didn't know it then. Cried for days. Oh well.

4. Catherine/Almasy from The English Patient. Epic. And pretty. And they got to be together in eternity (I think), which is more than many other fictional couples get.

5. Bobby/Diane from NYPD Blue - they had their ups and downs, but I think they could have been happy if Jimmy Smits didn't have contract issues. But they had a good run.

[rdave1.livejournal.com]

Awww! That's so sad that you got your heart broken at such a young age. *hugs*

I've had a few other people who have told him that a ship has helped them in real life. It has given them hope when they had littel or determination to achieve something. In a weird way, our ships and us do have a give and take relationship. They don't just entertain us but some of them leave a lasting impression in our lives.

I'm glad your real life difficulties were resolved in a better way.

[cynicalshadows.livejournal.com]

A while back, I wrote some meta on what makes me a shipper (http://cynicalshadows.livejournal.com/308680.html) because while I like lots of couples, I only really ship a few and they all have common traits. You could say that I have a clearly delineated 'type' of couple that I ship:

1. Opposites attract (couples the are inherently wrong for each other)

2. Forbidden fruit (guilt inducing reasons couple should not hook up)

3. Stronger together (combination of cheerleader and asskicker)

4. Moment of recognition (realization of feelings beyond attraction)

5. I don't want to be in love (one is resistant to romantic entanglements)

6. Major UST (especially after the deed is done)

7. You always hurt the one you love (repeated attempts to drive the other away)

8. Happily ever afters are overrated (The greatest love stories ever told are not about the couples that make it. They are about the ones that don't.)

My Top 5 Epic OTPs

(http://s452.photobucket.com/albums/qq244/aliciaEjames/Scrapbook%202010/?action=view&current=spuffyedit.jpg)
Spike/Buffy (Buffy the Vampire Slayer)
The snarky vampire falls in love with the vampire slayer, kicking and screaming the entire way. This couple had it all. The first time they slept together, they brought the house down...literally, in a scene that has been voted the best television sex scene ever! Sorry pilots, Spuffy will always be my number one.

(http://s452.photobucket.com/albums/qq244/aliciaEjames/Scrapbook%202010/?action=view&current=KaraandLee.jpg)
Kara/Lee (Battlestar Galactica)
Oh pilots, they broke my heart again and again and again, and like an addict I kept coming back for more. It saddens me that they got so little time together, but those few moments are some of my favorites in the entire series.

(http://s452.photobucket.com/albums/qq244/aliciaEjames/Meta%20Pics/?action=view&current=BrianandJustin.png)
Brian/Justin (Queer as Folk)
This relationship was like a case study of what happens with communication breaks down, each partner has different expectations of the relationship, and different understandings of what constitutes love. It was fascinating to watch and painful as hell.

(http://s452.photobucket.com/albums/qq244/aliciaEjames/Scrapbook%202010/?action=view&current=chuckblair.jpg)
Chuck/Blair (Gossip Girl)
The anti-couple. She loves him. He loves her. They never seem to be ready to be together at the same time, yet they can't stay away from one another. Exquisite pleasure! This is the reason to watch Gossip Girl. Screw the other characters. Give me Chuck and Blair fighting and flirting anyday and I will be content.

(http://s452.photobucket.com/albums/qq244/aliciaEjames/Meta%20Pics/?action=view&current=SonnyBrenda.png)
Sonny/Brenda (General Hospital)
The reason I got addicted to General Hospital in the early 90's? The passion between these two. The fire. That thin line between love and hate. They had it all and I loved it. Their's was an epic romance, and one of the few times I have seen love not being enough portrayed realistically on television (or as realistically as you can get on a soap opera). This was the Romeo and Juliet of daytime television: "These violent delights have violent ends."

[ninjamonkey73.livejournal.com]

Oh, you went soap opera... Now I have to rethink the list I was about to post. :) That's a whole genre I forgot about, and did I 'ship the soap couples back in the day.

Also, Spuffy made me laugh out loud. I 'shipped before we made everyone into a couple name, yo. Now I need to find the official couple names for everyone. *grin*

[rdave1.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I had never compared couples to see what the hardest journey and therefore making their union that much sweeter. But since the finale and the lack of resolution for Kara and Lee, my mind always wanders when I watch a show that some of these couples don't have half the issues that Kara and Lee had yet somehow they can't get themselves to be together. It's odd feeling because I'm always such a sap for romantic couples and I want them to be together.

As I mentioned above, my co-worker and I were discussing a good or rather a satisfying resolution to a ship no matter what their journey. Like many of you the ending of Kara and Lee didn't take into account their journey, their growth (as individuals and as a couple) and I think that's why it hurt more.

I don't there will ever be a ship that will get me this involved like Kara and Lee did. I have shipped in any show where that was possible but no one seems to hold a candle to pilots.

Let's see some of my ships: Tom/B'elanna(ST:V), Janeway/Chakotay(ST:V), Harm/Mac(JAG), Jack/Rose(Titanic), Chuck/Sarah(Chuck). The list is probably endless.:)

[rachelindeed.livejournal.com]

I have rooted for many a fictional romance in my day, and almost none of them have worked out, so I feel like an old pro at this :) It's become the rule in television to assume that happy couples can't be interesting to watch, which in my opinion is terribly wrong-headed and leads to a lot of storylines that waste my time with contrived unpleasantness. So I've developed a fairly philosophical attitude about it all, and no longer allow my heart to be crushed under the writer's boot-heel :) I savor the parts of the story I enjoy and shrug off the parts that I dislike, although some days that's easier to do than others. I think it helped me to come to BSG late, and watch it all on DVD, as I didn't have to go through months of expectation-building. Plus, fanfiction helps to remind me that there are always possibilities :) Plus, I've been through enough fandoms at this point to know how to keep my expectations cautious as the story moves along. And it's kind of nice, because I expect certain parts of the story not to work, and I can rewrite them in my head while appreciating the many things that *do* work and make me love the canon story and characters in the first place.

I will always love Kara/Lee. My earlier doomed fictional romances include:

~ David and Maddie on "Moonlighting." This is the couple whose implosion established the never-let-your-romatic-leads-get-together rule that we all have to live with now, but I can't blame them for it. The writers just didn't have faith that watching these people in a relationship would work, so they pulled in every cliche from running away to marrying someone else to losing a baby in order to keep them apart, and eventually exhausted the goodwill of their audience. But the two characters were so fresh, so brilliantly written, and the actors had such amazing chemistry. These two will always hold a special place in my heart, and even though the comedy of the show was exhilarating, the depth of emotion they reached was even more memorable.

~ unrequited Snape/Lily. What can I say? In fiction I'm a sucker for sarcastic, intelligent, angry, redeemable villains. I thought Snape was a fascinating character and it surprised and delighted me to find that his ultimate story arc was fundamentally about love and the painful processes (and limitations) of self-transformation. I've written more about this pairing than any other, and enjoyed myself very much along the way.

~ unrequited Lennier/Delenn. Yes. I'm one of the ten or so people who not only enjoyed Babylon 5 but who adopted Lennier early on as my favorite character. The conclusion of his story set my personal benchmark for frustration and betrayal with a long-running television show, so whenever I get upset about the way other stories are going, I can think to myself, well, at least this isn't as bad as *that*! But I digress... I love watching the Lennier and Delenn's scenes throughout the series, they are so quietly supportive, so unexpectedly funny, so gentle and complicated and...classy.

~ Kira/Odo. I, too, am a dyed-in-the-wool Trekker, and this couple was the one I invested the most into. I was in high school when DS9 was on the air, and I rooted for them so passionately. I still look back on them with great affection. One of my favorite lines of theirs, which I think sums up a lot of doomed romances, came about when Odo thought they were probably both about to get themselves killed: "Well, I was hoping for a long and happy relationship, but I guess I can settle for short and exciting." I think this is a pretty healthy attitude :)

~ Buffy/Spike. Like many others, I loved these two; I've enjoyed all of Whedon's shows, but Buffy was closest to my heart and this romance had such beautiful moments (though I hated the second half of Season Six when a lot of their actual relationship took place, and loved Season Seven when they were mainly making moon-eyes at each other, so I recognize my tastes are not for everyone :)

The end! :)

[rdave1.livejournal.com]

Is it weird that I admire your answer? I agree that if a couple gets a happy ending doesn't make them any less interest; it just means that there is closure for everyone(fans) involved. The writers aren't blind to the fact that there is fanfiction out there, that's why they don't need to put every detail on paper. They realize that we can read between the lines.

One of favorite shows, JAG, the couple had so many issues between them and individually but in the end they overcame them both to be together. The end of the show left a few things to the viewers imagination but nothing like what they did with Kara/Lee.

I came into BSG fandom closer to when S4 was ready to start. But when I was watching them on DVD, I fell so hard and there was consistency in the writing to support a conclusive end for Kara and Lee. And they decided to go totally in the opposite direction towards the end. That is probably one of the biggest reason we all feel jilted and from now on I'll be so cautious as to who I give my heart away to(ship wise of course)

[ninjamonkey73.livejournal.com]

I have 'shipped for almost as long as I can remember. In thinking about my top 5 today, I've come up with too many and been trying to pare the list down.

1) Kara/Lee (BSG)- It's all been said before; it will all be said again. For me, I get all caught up in the "best friend's who can no longer deny their feelings" story, as evidenced by most of the other 'ships below. I married my best friend (after dating and breaking up twice before the third time stuck), but I was into this angle looong before I met him. It resonates differently now.

2) Janeway/Chakotay (Star Trek: Voyager)- I have this thing for powerful women with hero complexes. *g* Janeway (at least my head!Janeway) agonized over her responsibility to her crew and denied herself the luxuries of not being Captain 24/7. As the effective highest ranking Starfleet officer in the Delta Quadrant, how could she not be on duty? THIS is the 'ship that brought me into fanfiction. And they were never canon. Also, I taught myself how to write HTML to make myself a webpage back then, and many other PC skills I still use.

3) Rita/Chris (Silk Stalkings)- Talk about show's screwing the pooch on their fans! The show was this whole buddy cop dynamic with UST and best friendship and undercover callgirls and male strippers and horrible latenight cable schlock. When the lead actress decided to leave (and got pregnant in RL), TV Guide leaked the final 5 episode story arc (without seeming to notice) so I was angry in advance of it airing. The throwaway remark in the article about her leaving was along the lines of "in the course of the next 5 episodes, they hook up, she gets pregnant, and he dies". Oh. Hells. No. And true to TV Guide's word, I got my canon for 5 weeks, including the tying in of the replacement cops making a mess of things, and I was done with the series after trying to watch a few eps of the new cops. I may have bought the 5 episodes in question when the series went up by episode at Amazon. Maybe.

4) Scully/Mulder (X-Files)- Chris Carter, or the first man I ever hated without meeting, thought he was soooo funny. He tweaked his nose at the 'shippers and had an alien pretending to be Mulder hit on Scully. Then in the Big Damn Movie, they come thisclose to kissing and she gets stung by the crazy black-ooze bee. I did not come back to the show after that first movie (that oddly enough, I own on DVD). Seriously. I held that grudge. And I still haven't seen the second movie. K/L is so much easier to deal with having seen how a creator can hate on you and not just leave them totally a non-canon pairing.

(The 1st 4 came to me right away but the 5th one is harder to separate out... I think I'll let myself off the hook by being honest.)

5) Kermit/Miss Piggy (The Muppet Show/movies)- I said I 'shipped for as long as I can remember. I wasn't kidding. Huh. Again with the strong, ass-kicking female. Hi-ya!

That's the top 5. Also needing mention for my lesser 'shipping tendencies:

* David/Maddy (Moonlighting)- ruined TV UST couples with their writer!fail, but I loved them so unreasonably
* Mal/Inara (Firefly)- If the show had lasted more than a half season and I'd watched it live and not on DVD, there would be fanfictions written to their angsty denials. Maybe when we rewatch it, I'll write one.
* Bo/Carly (Days of Our Lives)- Can't even remember why I was so obsessed at the time.
* Britta/Jeff (Community)- They replaced Jim/Pam of The Office as my sitcom 'ship.

(Oh my God. I'm such a liar. I totally 'ship Castle and Beckett up there at number 2. It's the only other 'ship community I do here on LJ. Did I actually bump them to include Kermit the Frog in the top 5? Yes, yes I did. *g*)

[rdave1.livejournal.com]

Everyone has been saying that they've shipped for as long as they have, is it the case for me and I don't recall? Must be from the days when I didn't know what shipping was.

I thought that Janeway/Chakotay was hinted numerous times on the show or was it my imagination. I thought the feelings were mutual especially when they get stuck on that planet building boats and hot tubs. Hated Six for getting in the way.

I love that you included cartoon characters as a ship. I honestly can say that I had never thought about shipping cartoons. I do love Miss Piggy!

Castle and Beckett are adorable! Did you watch Monday's episode yet with Trucco? That's okay to bump Castle/Beckett for Kermit/Miss Piggy; they've been around a lot longer.:)

[owldark.livejournal.com]

Kara/Lee are totally my top ship -- because of the complexity and pain and struggle they had to go through. It was a ship that I loved from the word go (that scene in hack FTW!) -- but also a ship that I kept falling in love with because it was alwasy changing the way real relationships changed.

I have always loved the friends/coworkers/forbidden coupling sort of ship - but Kara/Lee just took it to a whole other level. I loved that they were friends, rivals, coworkers, pseudo-siblings, lovers, etc.

My top ships....

1 >> Kara/Lee see above. I fell hard, and the fact I'm still thinking about them might be partially down to the fact that their ending just utterly didn't work for me. As taragel says above, the fact that they didn't grow, they didn't change (according to the show) makes me continue to think about their stories, their arcs - it makes me want to keep talking, to keep writing, to keep shipping. Perhaps, if they had been given an ending that I liked, I wouldn't think about them so much.

2 >> Mulder/Scully Mulder & Scully are very close to Lee & Kara for me. I loved the subtleties in their relationship, and loved their banter and snark. I started off wanting them to get together and then grew to love the possibility that they were best friends, and their relationship was almost unclassifiable. The show totally jumped the shark... and I'm not really convinced by the (various) endings. But early Mulder & Scully remain a ship close to my heart.

3 >> Buffy/Spike I adored Buffy & Spike and really did just want them to snuggle up in a crypt and fight over the remote control. Too cute.

4 >> Aragorn/Eowyn I loved these two. I remember reading Lord of the Rings for the first time and getting to the end and being so cranky that they didn't end up together. I'm afraid that feeling never went away. Arwen is lovely, and giving up her immortality, very cool, but ARGH. Shipper in me LOVES Eowyn, she's totally kick-ass like Kara, and she would be epic with Aragorn. *sigh* I'm never going to get over it.

5 >> Remus/Sirius Totally canon to me. Probably completely based on fanfic... but they're brilliant together in all their mopey, sexy, English glory. Tea and kissing and summertime and angst and I don't care what JKR says.

[rdave1.livejournal.com]

It was hard not to fall in love with Kara and Lee from the moment we set our eyes on them. Kinda of like them, I suppose. Their relationship was like no other on television and never will be. It was one of the most realistic relationships ever portrayed, they never sugar-cotted anything.

Their friendship and the banter was so endearing from the beginning. No matter what else happened in their lives, their friendship was the foundation that just couldn't be shaken. And we know that they've pushed each other to the limit.

What you've stated above is exactly why the ending just doesn't work. According to the show and the writers never grew but we witnessed their growth. A man like Lee who never believed in anything that he couldn't justify logically, threw it out the window after Kara came back. He accepted her because she was Kara Thrace and nothing else mattered, didn't matter if she was alive, dead, ghost or an angel. For those reasons the end was as you put it UTTERLY wrong.

[stripes13.livejournal.com]

OK, my drive-by top five:

1) Kara/Lee (BSG): These two are epic in every way possible, it is impossible for me to love another pairing more than these two.

2) Josh/Donna (West Wing): Before I met Kara and Lee, I had met these two wacky people who worked at the White House. He's one of the brightest political minds in the country. She's a UW-Madison dropout who left her Med Student boyfriend to join a campaign and find herself.
Josh: If you'd been in an accident, I wouldn't stop for a beer.
Donna: If you were in an accident, I wouldn't stop for red lights.

3) Rose/Doctor (Doctor Who): This is a very recent ship for me, and until a few days ago it was Nine/Rose. But after finishing s4, I'm changing it to just Doctor....doesn't matter which number

4) Buffy/Angel (BtVS): Here's another ship that I've hung onto since I first saw them. I like Spuffy, but they aren't as huge for me as these two.

5) Luke/Lorelai (Gilmore Girls): One word...BANTER!!!!!

Honorable Mention:
Buffy/Spike (BtVS)
Faramir/Eowyn (LotR)
Link/Zelda (Legend of Zelda Video Game)---> Don't laugh!!! I've played the many incarnations of this game since I was an Itty-Bitty little thing!! Get past the fact that it's a game, and look at the story there is a ton of shippy potential

[rdave1.livejournal.com]

So Say We All!! So Say We All!!

Totally agree with you on K/L front. I think everyone has mentioned anyone I might have left out. I miss Josh/Donna and Luke/Lorelai had great banter, no where near the fun banter of pilots but the next best.

Someone mentioned soap opera ships, cartoon character ships. I think it's only natural that video games should be included.

I love this list, it's so varied but K/L and their reasoning is almost the exact in all of them.

[(Anonymous)]

I shipped Sam/Jack on Stargate SG1 but nowhere near the intensity of my shipping of Lee/Kara...Lee/Kara are my #1 ship and Sam/Jack are a distant second

I'm a little surprised I haven't seen anyone else mention Sam/Jack yet...

[rdave1.livejournal.com]

Now I feel like a bad shipper. Before Kara/Lee ate at my head, I was totally enamored by Sam/Jack. They wanted so badly to be together but those damn frat regs got in the way until the end. I loved that show runners never forgot the fans. They gave us hints about them long after the show ended. It was nice not to have my love just thrown away.

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

OK, so I've been at work all day eager to get home to post my five favorite ships for this most awesome of posts!

1. Kara Thrace/Lee Adama - I ship this because the chemistry screams off the screen, they are best friends and lovers who should be together for a hundred reasons, they kick ass all the time, they can fight and still be friends, the have a shared history and there is angst, lots of delicious, painful, breathtaking angst.

2. Rose/Ten (Dr. Who) - This is my newest ship, as of about a month ago. The Doctor, 900 years old, dark and lonely with bright spots of joy, needs someone to help him soften his need for vengeance. Rose is a beautiful soul who tempers his rage and loves him.

3. Buffy/Spike (BtVS) - He's a frakking bad ass, no guilt, big attitude vamp who adores him some slayer. One of the hottest sex scenes evah! He died for her.

4. Michael/Nikita (La Femme Nikita) - Because Michael is emotionally remote and is supposed to be above falling for his agent, but she's so beautiful and full of emotion that he cannot resist her and risks everything to be with her in the end. And he cried blood. O.M.G.

5. Mulder/Scully (X-files) - This was my first hardcore ship way back when it originally ran. Mulder's half-baked, alien-believing, emotionally-scarred self falls for the uber rational, scientific Scully. It took them so long to get together and in the end it was so painful anyway. I don't actively ship them much these days, but gods, when I re-watch, it's just awesome.

Honorable Mentions:
Eowyn/Faramir (LotR)
Sawyer/Juliet (Lost)
Paul/Chani (Dune)
Neo/Trinity (The Matrix)
Tyler Durden/Marla Singer (Fight Club)

[rdave1.livejournal.com]

Awww!! You make me blush.:) That's so sweet!

Just a hundred reasons? I'm if we really wanted to make a list, it would be a lot longer then that, may that should be a post one day this week.:)

I totally didn't think about Tyler and Marla from Fight Club. Mulder and Scully were so out there, well at least Mulder was and somehow Scully was able to deal with that.

[kag523.livejournal.com]

There are a number of TREMENDOUS answers already, and some of what I'm going to say has already been covered, but I'll throw mine in. (Tonight's editing is done).

First, I think that Lee/Kara SHOULD be the bar for other couples. They worked through the issues, they got to a place (Earth 2.0 and in their personal lives) where none of the earlier issues mattered and they SHOULD HAVE been given the bright, shiny future I was pining for. This is actually the reason I started writing fanfiction at all... THE WHOLE REASON. I absolutely loved BSG, but that last Lee / Kara scene scarred me. I just couldn't move on from the idea that "this is just so frakking wrong!" So I took all the things that left me wondering "why" and wrote an extended ending (After the End).

I personally have made this my own version ending. I'll believe that Ron just ran out of time, and opted for special effects instead.

Fave couples and why:

1) Lee / Kara: I just love the idea that they balance each other in some cosmic yin yang way. There are too many reasons to go into but the fact is, they are perfect character foils to one another. And the chemistry between them is perfectly realized - all longing and tension. Yum!

2) Henry / Clare, The Time Traveller's Wife: They are destined to live in slightly different times. Each one knows something different about the other, and yet they make it work. A perfect happy / sad ending to the book.

3) Elizabeth / Leicester, Elizabeth: I'm a bit of a history buff, so I loved that this movie had such an epic way of retelling the story (though of course the facts were loosely put together). Robert loves her as a woman, not a queen. She loves him as a man, not a peer. They can't be together, but they hold each other together in endless ways. *sigh*

4) Elizabeth Bennet / Mr. Darcy, Pride and Prejudice (the book and the old BBC versions are my favorites): I watch this whenever I'm down, and have read it so many times my copy is dog-eared. They are wrong for each other in all of the definitions of the times, but they complete each other in ways that no one else can. Happy endings abound!

5) Laszlo Almasy / Katharine, The English Patient: This is the only movie I've loved more than the book. Their love is perfect and pristine. He refuses to demand anything of her, and never realizes how much she is actually willing to offer him. Perfectly sad. Perfectly perfect. I can't watch this enough. :>)

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

First, I think that Lee/Kara SHOULD be the bar for other couples.

THIS. I forgot to say this in my post, too. K/L Forever.

[damao2010.livejournal.com]

I have rooted for several ships over the years but few have really moved me.

1) Kara/Lee - Though they are the latest one, it is by far the one that has touched me the most.

2) Mulder/Scully (x-files) - It was my first hardcore shipper, as sci_fi_shipper wrote above. It was also the first time I read fanfic and the first time I learned there were people out there thinking what I was thinking and feeling what I was feeling about them. It was great to find out I wasn't so crazy after all. I still love them and it's the only other show I read fics.

3) Luke/Lorelai (The Gilmore Girls) - I loved the humor and the banter there. Also, an example of poor writing in the end. But at least they got together.

4) David/ Maddie (Moonlighting) - I loved the humor and the banter there as well. They were so different but it just felt right (until the writers went crazy, that is).

[rdave1.livejournal.com]

Lot of repeating ships. It looks like we like the same stuff and mostly for the same reasons. Great minds think alike, right?

Personally, I think it would hard for anyone to watch Kara and Lee and not be touche by their story. Just not possible! It was love in its purest form. They were meant to be, the real soulmates kinda love that doesn't happen very often.

[eugis.livejournal.com]

I'm so sorry for replying so late, I've been kinda busy these days.

I have lots and lots of OTPs, whether I want to admit it or not, I'm a sucker for the romanticism in everything.

Of course Lee/Kara is my #1, but I also love Booth/Brennan (Bones), Luke/Lorelai (Gilmore Girls), Ross/Rachel (Friends), Aragorn/Arwen (LOTR), Faramir/Eowyn (LOTR), Han/Leia (Star Wars), Jaye/Eric (Wonderfalls), Elizabeth/Darcy (Pride and Prejudice), Anne/Wentworth (Persuasion), Desmond/Penny (Lost).

[rdave1.livejournal.com]

No worries! Sadly RL does come first.:)

Awww! You ship Booth/Brennan too.:) They are adorable, lately with their dialogue they remind me a lot of Kara/Lee.