No Takebacks

I think that if the writers had brought them to a "together" kind of ending, it would have been pretty satisfying to me, because I always felt like their story together in BSG boiled down to not just wanting to be with each other, but not being able to really live without each other. They couldn't function well when they were estranged. (Is it unhealthy and codependent? Yeah, probably, but I don't care because they're post-apocolyptic fictional characters. ;)

As far as obstacles, I think their greatest obstacles were always within themselves, but I sure had more tolerance for their faux marriages/love interests when they were used as what they really were: contrivances to keep the OTP apart. It was the times when the show tried suddenly to imbue these other relationships with greater love/feeling than they warranted that I really got annoyed (TABFYW, Disquiet, Daybreak 2 for Kara/Sam--although I still think the thing that annoys me most about their final scene is the recycling of the "see you on the other side" line and the comparison of the goodbyes for Kara's two ships).

What's most frustrating to me about their ending is that it didn't reflect any kind of growth at all for these two people, as if they didn't deserve to grow and change and find peace with each other. And that really pissed me off.

My top five OTPs:
1) Kara/Lee--I don't think I'll ever love a ship as much. It just hits all the buttons for me because they are everything to each other: friends, family, lovers, enemies, partners, soulmates, etc.

2) Joey/Pacey (Dawson's Creek)--the only other show I've been so fannish about! I loved S1 Joey so much and Pacey is just, to this day, the most perfect TV boyfriend ever.

3) Katniss/Gale (Hunger Games)--They remind me so much of Kara and Lee that this one is kind of a gimme, but there's also the added bonus of being childhood friends, which is a trope I love. I adore that Katniss can "only be herself with" Gale. I love that as much as he hates the rebellion and wants to fight for humanity, his first instinct is that he wants to run away with her.

4) Anne/Gilbert (Green Gables)--I adore their story so much, how they changed and became friends and finally admitted their love and married and had a family.

5) Polly/Tom (Louisa May Alcott's An Old-Fashioned Girl)--My favorite trope of childhood friends becoming more over the course of the years, and Tom's quiet respect for Polly and her shy delight when he confides in her is so adorable. I love seeing them grow into responsible adults and finally get together.

Edited Date: 2010-05-11 01:58 pm (UTC)

From:

(Is it unhealthy and codependent? Yeah, probably, but I don't care because they're post-apocolyptic fictional characters. ;)

LOL. Well, I don't think this co-dependence is necessarily unhealthy... It just comes as a natural thing when you have so much in common with someone imho.

I still think the thing that annoys me most about their final scene is the recycling of the "see you on the other side" line and the comparison of the goodbyes for Kara's two ships

THIS. Don't me get started with this... So terribly unfair.

What's most frustrating to me about their ending is that it didn't reflect any kind of growth at all for these two people, as if they didn't deserve to grow and change and find peace with each other. And that really pissed me off.

Oh, word... I formed such a strong emotional attachment to K/L and their journey as individuals and as a couple that this lack of growth was really disappointing. It's been a year and it's still difficult for me. Their story feels... unfinished, somehow, and it's so frustrating.

From:

baciami2.livejournal.com

What makes Kara & Lee unique for me is they are my first ship! And after all the pain & angst of the finale, I feel as if they'll be my last. I've never been so gaga, gob-smacked, *gggggggg* over any fictional couple before. When I first logged onto the Skiffy board, I had to look up "shipper" iat urbandictionary.com to figure out what it was. After RDM's total disrespect, I'll never trust another piece of "entertainment" again to deliver on its promises. *sigh*

The finale of Lost is comiing up. I'm looking forward to it, but only a tad more than "mildly" as I'm feeling the Damon & Carlton only have a wee bit more respect for their viewers than Ron&Dave did. I mean, Sun & Jin are apart for three seasons before they're only briefly reunited. Say what? (to quote Cavil, teehee)

From:

I have always considered myself a shipper –I’ve been shipping fictional characters all my life--, and I am always drawn to romantic relationships in any story… As Tara above, my favorite trope is the best friends who become something else. I just love this sort of dynamic, probably because a belief of mine is that a profound friendship should be the root of any romantic relationship… But truth is that even though I have always shipped, Lee and Kara took my shippiness to a whole new level. I think I will never love any couple as I love Kara/Lee.

Also, I don’t think their epicness is a result of the lack of a happy ending for them… On the contrary, their epicness comes from their journey together (of course the apocalyptic setting helps a little… But they’d have been epic in a more mundane scenario, that’s for sure). I think their dynamic is what makes them so extraordinary and compelling, the fact that they represent everything to each other but can’t embrace their feelings precisely because of it. They are epic because their story is an honest, raw portrait of romantic love. They are challenging on so many levels. Awful but wonderful. And of course they have all those obstacles that keep them apart… I love angst --and K/L have plenty--, and that’s possibly the reason that made me fall so hard for them… But paradoxically, the most frustrating thing about them is that all those buckets of angst didn’t mean a thing in the end… What was the point of their story since they didn’t have a proper resolution? All that pain for nothing? But well, I have been thinking that maybe part of what makes them so epic and unforgettable is that lack of closure… I mean, look at me, it’s been more than a year and I can’t let them go!!

(as for ‘ships… I have had plenty of them, but I’d call them “minor” ships, because all pale in comparison with Lee and Kara, my one and only OTP: Joey/Pacey (Dawson’s Creek), Felicity/Ben (Felicity), Buffy/Spike (Buffy), Mulder/Scully (X-Files), Doug/Carol (ER), Rose/Jack (Titanic), Catniss/Gale (The Hunger Games), Anne/Gilbert (Green Gables), Rogue/Gambit (X-Men), Elizabeth Bennet/Mr Darcy (Pride and Prejudice), Jamie/Brienne (ASOIAF), Watanabe/Midori (Norwegian Wood), Nana/Yasu (Nana), Noah/Allie (The Notebook)… And the list goes on and on and on :D)

From:

And after all the pain & angst of the finale, I feel as if they'll be my last.

That's exactly what I think :)

From:

jeeshee.livejournal.com

I recently picspammed my top 5 ships (http://jeeshee.livejournal.com/246531.html), although since Glee came back I've gone off the Will/Emma boil!

I think all of the ships I listed have common qualities - a deep friendship as well as attraction, lots of UST and complications that prevent them being fully together! Only one of my ships is 'wrapped up': Sam/Annie from Life on Mars (UK). I hope it's not too spoilery to say that in their series they had a happy ending (well, depending on your interpretation, slightly, and discounting what Ashes to Ashes tells us). This definitely gave their relationship and in fact Sam's entire story a very nice rounding off.

I wouldn't say I compare to K/L that much, though. Every couple I ship has something unique to them, and although pilots will always be my number one I don't find their lack of closure (however annoying in terms of their stories) impacts on my other ships.

From:

amidala-thrace.livejournal.com

I definitely compare my ships, and in fact doing so actually helped me to come to a point where I was able to accept the finale. Not necessarily like, but accept, and not be so bitter about it anymore.

You see, my other primary fandom is the Star Wars fandom, and in that fandom, my primary ship is Obi-Wan Kenobi/Padmé Amidala. Not only is Obi-Wan/Padmé not canon, it's also one of the most hated ships in the SW fandom. So a few months back when I was contemplating the BSG finale, I thought to myself, "Why am I so bitter about Kara/Lee's ending? Obi-Wan/Padmé never even got a canonical KISS, let alone make-out time and an actual sex scene!" (Not that there would be sex scenes in SW, but you get the idea.) And I realized how lucky I was to ship Kara/Lee, a couple that got kisses, gropes, UST, a sex scene, and way, way, WAY more than Obi-Wan/Padmé EVER did or ever could have. Not to mention the fact that there are actually people in the BSG fandom who like Kara/Lee, whereas proclaiming yourself to be an Obidala shipper in the SW fandom gets you much the same reaction as saying you eat cute fluffy kittens for breakfast every day might. What can I say, coming from SW fandom to BSG fandom, I felt spoiled. ;)

My top 5 pairings:

1. Obi-Wan/Padmé: Always will be my number one top romantic pairing EVER. Sorry, K/L, but it's true. What I like most about this couple is that their ideals and life goals are so similar, so complimentary, that you can see them forming a connection to each other and a close relationship based on that alone. They are healthy for each other, good for each other, which I suppose is something you might not be able to say about K/L, but whatever. Obi-Wan is very similar to Lee, at least in my view, so it's got that going for it as well. ;)

2. Kara/Lee: They're screwed-up, they're angsty, and they were ultimately doomed, but they have a connection to each other as well, and my shippy brain could not overlook that when I became a BSG fan. I loved them for their potential when the show was still on, but after BSG ended, I started seeing different sides to them, things that I could love even knowing how everything turned out. I just love Kara, period (much as I love Padmé) and Lee is such an interesting character to me. :D

3. Han/Leia: They are sort of a proto-Kara/Lee, and I LOVE them. Were it not for the fact that I ship Obidala and K/L like crazy, Han/Leia would have been top of my list. You've got snarkiness, banter, a small bit of angst, and awesome chemistry. Love, love, love.

4. Picard/Crusher: Some of you will understand what I mean when I say I shipped this couple way before I even knew what shipping was. I am a Trekkie, born and bred, ever since being introduced to it by my father at the tender age of five. P/C too were ultimately doomed (gee, are we sensing a pattern here or what?), but again, you can see the chemistry and the rightness and oh, the angst. And I didn't spot any of that as a kid and I STILL loved the idea of them together. Now that I think about it, they have elements of Kara/Lee as well, in that Beverly was married to Picard's best friend for years and years while Picard was secretly in love with her, and then her husband died on his watch and he had to be the one to tell her. I guess I am rather predictable in my shipping choices, and was that way very early on. ;D

5. Anakin/Padmé: Yes, I do happen to be a multishipper in every fandom. Hee. This one is canon, so you get to see is actually happening, though the resolution leaves something to be desired even though you are expecting it. It's got that trainwreck-can't-turn-away quality about it, and angst by the bucketful, both of which I happen to enjoy.

Honourable mention has to go to Kara/Sam ... I need at least ten spaces for all my favourite ships!

From:

eternal-nomad1.livejournal.com

I sort of had a complex relationship with shipping before I even knew what shipping was - the first couple I was really into broke my heart at the tender age of 11, way before I knew what shipping was, so for a long time I shied away from it. I did enjoy a few more doomed and not-so-doomed couples along the way, but nowhere near with the same intensity. Looking back, one of the reasons I was so into Kara/Lee was because I came to BSG during a very difficult time in my own life, and I could project some of my hope for a good outcome onto them. Thankfully, my own issues resolved in a much better manner than Kara/Lee. So, my favorite doomed and not-so-doomed couples of all time:

1. Lymond/Philippa from The Lymond Chronicles by Dorothy Dunnett - mega-angst, lots of baggage, internal and external issues, war, politics, betrayal, and did I mention the mega-angst? But in the end they manage to overcome everything and let themselves be happy, so that's why I put them at number 1.

2. Kara/Lee - well, what is there to say? I think the thing that annoyed me most about the outcome was that they both submitted to the great annoying destiny thing, when I wanted them both so much to overcome it and rescrue themselves.

3. Bussy/Diana from The Countess of Montcereau by Alexandre Dumas. This is the couple that broke my heart at age 11. They overcome all sorts of obstacles, you think everything is going to be fine, take a deep breath, turn the page and everything goes to hell in a handbasket. Typical 19th century novel gimmick, but I didn't know it then. Cried for days. Oh well.

4. Catherine/Almasy from The English Patient. Epic. And pretty. And they got to be together in eternity (I think), which is more than many other fictional couples get.

5. Bobby/Diane from NYPD Blue - they had their ups and downs, but I think they could have been happy if Jimmy Smits didn't have contract issues. But they had a good run.

From:

Ben/Felicity! I forgot them briefly! You know it's interesting because it's hard for me to think of shippping in terms of books and movies. Especially if it is just one book or movie. A series is a bit different, but if it's only one book/film, your total length of experience with the couple is only for the time of that book/film.

I feel like to get fannish about something I need a lot of time, so TV shows or a series of books/movies would have to do it.

From:

A while back, I wrote some meta on what makes me a shipper (http://cynicalshadows.livejournal.com/308680.html) because while I like lots of couples, I only really ship a few and they all have common traits. You could say that I have a clearly delineated 'type' of couple that I ship:

1. Opposites attract (couples the are inherently wrong for each other)

2. Forbidden fruit (guilt inducing reasons couple should not hook up)

3. Stronger together (combination of cheerleader and asskicker)

4. Moment of recognition (realization of feelings beyond attraction)

5. I don't want to be in love (one is resistant to romantic entanglements)

6. Major UST (especially after the deed is done)

7. You always hurt the one you love (repeated attempts to drive the other away)

8. Happily ever afters are overrated (The greatest love stories ever told are not about the couples that make it. They are about the ones that don't.)

My Top 5 Epic OTPs

(http://s452.photobucket.com/albums/qq244/aliciaEjames/Scrapbook%202010/?action=view&current=spuffyedit.jpg)
Spike/Buffy (Buffy the Vampire Slayer)
The snarky vampire falls in love with the vampire slayer, kicking and screaming the entire way. This couple had it all. The first time they slept together, they brought the house down...literally, in a scene that has been voted the best television sex scene ever! Sorry pilots, Spuffy will always be my number one.

(http://s452.photobucket.com/albums/qq244/aliciaEjames/Scrapbook%202010/?action=view&current=KaraandLee.jpg)
Kara/Lee (Battlestar Galactica)
Oh pilots, they broke my heart again and again and again, and like an addict I kept coming back for more. It saddens me that they got so little time together, but those few moments are some of my favorites in the entire series.

(http://s452.photobucket.com/albums/qq244/aliciaEjames/Meta%20Pics/?action=view&current=BrianandJustin.png)
Brian/Justin (Queer as Folk)
This relationship was like a case study of what happens with communication breaks down, each partner has different expectations of the relationship, and different understandings of what constitutes love. It was fascinating to watch and painful as hell.

(http://s452.photobucket.com/albums/qq244/aliciaEjames/Scrapbook%202010/?action=view&current=chuckblair.jpg)
Chuck/Blair (Gossip Girl)
The anti-couple. She loves him. He loves her. They never seem to be ready to be together at the same time, yet they can't stay away from one another. Exquisite pleasure! This is the reason to watch Gossip Girl. Screw the other characters. Give me Chuck and Blair fighting and flirting anyday and I will be content.

(http://s452.photobucket.com/albums/qq244/aliciaEjames/Meta%20Pics/?action=view&current=SonnyBrenda.png)
Sonny/Brenda (General Hospital)
The reason I got addicted to General Hospital in the early 90's? The passion between these two. The fire. That thin line between love and hate. They had it all and I loved it. Their's was an epic romance, and one of the few times I have seen love not being enough portrayed realistically on television (or as realistically as you can get on a soap opera). This was the Romeo and Juliet of daytime television: "These violent delights have violent ends."

From:

ninjamonkey73.livejournal.com

Oh, you went soap opera... Now I have to rethink the list I was about to post. :) That's a whole genre I forgot about, and did I 'ship the soap couples back in the day.

Also, Spuffy made me laugh out loud. I 'shipped before we made everyone into a couple name, yo. Now I need to find the official couple names for everyone. *grin*

From:

I came late to the BtVS fandom, so Spuffy was already established as a couple name. It makes me giggle though.

And while I don't really watch soaps anymore, I had to include Sonny/Brenda. I was so addicted to them, and if they ever brought her back to the show, I am sure I would start watching again.

From:

Anne/Gilbert! I loved them so much, especially in the tv miniseries. They just had so much chemistry.

From:

That miniseries is maybe the most perfect book to film adaptation ever! ♥ ♥ (Just the first two anyway--not the war one)

And since I know you watch both...doesn't Jonathan from Dancing with the Stars remind you of Gilbert (played by Jonathan Crombie) a little? He always does to me!

From:

Yeah, I don't even know what was up with the war one. It was so bad.

And now that you mention it, Jonathan does remind me of Gilbert. *grins*

From:

Aw, your icon! I need a Ben/Felicity one! :D

I feel like to get fannish about something I need a lot of time, so TV shows or a series of books/movies would have to do it.

Same here. It takes me a lot to get emotionally involved with characters. I need time, I need to know them --*really* know them-- and obsess over them, "internalize" the characters somehow I can feel mildly shippy about a pairing from a book or a movie, but the experience is totally different when it comes to TV shows or series of books, when you obsess over them for years and those characters become --literally-- like your family, a part of your daily life.

From:

Honestly, I had never compared couples to see what the hardest journey and therefore making their union that much sweeter. But since the finale and the lack of resolution for Kara and Lee, my mind always wanders when I watch a show that some of these couples don't have half the issues that Kara and Lee had yet somehow they can't get themselves to be together. It's odd feeling because I'm always such a sap for romantic couples and I want them to be together.

As I mentioned above, my co-worker and I were discussing a good or rather a satisfying resolution to a ship no matter what their journey. Like many of you the ending of Kara and Lee didn't take into account their journey, their growth (as individuals and as a couple) and I think that's why it hurt more.

I don't there will ever be a ship that will get me this involved like Kara and Lee did. I have shipped in any show where that was possible but no one seems to hold a candle to pilots.

Let's see some of my ships: Tom/B'elanna(ST:V), Janeway/Chakotay(ST:V), Harm/Mac(JAG), Jack/Rose(Titanic), Chuck/Sarah(Chuck). The list is probably endless.:)

From:

not being able to really live without each other

I absolutely agree with this. I think as much as they drove each other nuts sometimes, they had a calming effect, a sense of peace or home with each other. I wouldn't say that they coudn't function when they weren't with each other but they weren't at their best. It's like their conscious wasn't there to tell them if they were doing something wrong.

I think one of their greatest obstacle was themselves. They needed to come to terms with who they were as individuals and also accept the other person as who they were without any expectations. By the time they reached that point, sadly they weren't worth it.

I hated the fact the fact they used K/L line for K/S. I just makes me mad.

From:

I formed such a strong emotional attachment to K/L and their journey as individuals and as a couple that this lack of growth was really disappointing. It's been a year and it's still difficult for me. Their story feels... unfinished, somehow, and it's so frustrating.

Well put. I think we all got so attached them, we felt their pain, we laughed and cried with them; so for the end to be so inconclusive is just sad. Their unfinished business never got around to being finished.

From:

I think you summed everything up really well. When I first met those two, I went in guns blazing into fandom. I needed everything to catch and what everyone else thought about episodes and such. I found a group of people who had the same amount love and craziness for the pilots.:)

After RDM's total disrespect, I'll never trust another piece of "entertainment" again to deliver on its promises.

I totally agree with this. It's hard for me to get excited about another ship because I don't want to get my heart handed back to me in pieces. I suppose that's why I compare them to pilots and the reason for this post.

I do hope the Lost finale is what the fans want. I haven't watched in a while but did they kill Jin? I heard the fans were pissed to say the least.

From:

Lee and Kara took my shippiness to a whole new level

That is so true for me as well. There will never be anyone like them in my life. Probably my first and last true ship.

That's not what I meant. I didn't mean they were epic because of their lack of ending. Their story and like you said their journey was what made them epic. I was comparing their epicness to other ships, does it even compare.

You are so right in everything you've said in the second paragraph. They were so different but so alike, they had so much to overcome and they did and yet in the end none of mattered.

All that pain for nothing?
I think that's one of the reason it's so hard to accept their end. Why did we all suffer along with them if they were never going to get anywhere. Why tag us along? Had we gotten closure, would that have made them less epic? I don't think so. We all knew that they were not anywhere near bright shiny futures with porch swings and rugrats but all we really wanted was there to be a chance of that.

Somehow I think if you ask me next year around the finale, I'll still be just as attached.

From:

placesofthunder has made some lovely Ben/Felicity, Pacey/Joey and Kara/Lee icons. (She's

mintenergy's sis. And she runs the Kat/Gale comm

quietmoments_hg.

From:

Lovely picspam.

Deep friendship growing into something more seems to be common thread amongst many of the other ships mentioned. I haven't watched Life on Mars, so I'll take your word on that. I did hear that the UK version was better the US remake.

It's interesting! It's nice to see how much impact K/L has had in other aspects of our tv viewing. Does it ever bother that less well written ships that you may have get closure then Kara/Lee who were so well defined early on?

From: