DPP: Expectations

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

Today, a discussion about what we expect in pilots fanfic and how we characterize the "fixes" to pilot problems. Like everyone, I've read a lot of k/l fanfic that moves their relationship to a better place using some similar tropes. One of those tropes is that Lee changes to be more patient and trusting and uses the "drip-drip-drip" approach to getting Kara to trust him. Given the prevalence of this trope, I'd like to ask you all a question that someone once asked me:

Do we expect too much of Lee?

In other words, do we expect him to be endlessly patient and accepting and willing to wait Kara out on her fears? If so, why? Secondarily, if we do, is that fair?

Additionally, if their genders were reversed, would we expect Lee to wait for Kara in the same way or would we consider that unfitting or stereotypical for a woman to wait for a man to sort out his issues?

I have a lot of "maybe??" responses to these and can see the answers being quite fic/situation specific, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

In giving your thoughts about the idea, consider your OWN expectations and then consider the body of work in the BSG fandom: Does it uphold the expectation that it is Lee who changes to make their relationship work? Also, if you are a writer, what other ways have you "fixed" their relationship to make it work?

This question is in no way designed to judge any character or opinion that anyone has. I expect everyone will be kind and thoughtful in their responses. Thanks!

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WISHING WELL UPDATE:

WISHES FULFILLED!
Wish granted for sci_fi_shipper: Scar and EoJ icons (shareable) by kl_shipper1.

UNCLAIMED WISHES
We have many pilots shippers whose wishes have not been claimed! Here is a list of the wishes requested. (I've summarized the longer ones, so please check the link for specifics.)

Wish for "Crack!vid of LMFAO’s ‘Sexy And I Know It’ starring one, Leland Adama" HERE.

Wish for "Humor piece from Kara’s POV post-poof as she watches life on Earth go on without her" HERE.

Wish for "pretty, colorful cool Kara-centric icons" HERE.

Wish for "pre-mini ficlet featuring Kara, Lee, and Karl" HERE.

Wish for fic of Zak realizing Kara and Lee have feelings for each other and doing something about it HERE.

Wish for "ficlet about Kara and Lee when they've grown old" HERE.

Wish for "fic about Lee learning the origin of Kara's callsign" HERE.

Wish for "Kara finds out Lee's marrying Dee and it's enough of a shock to make her try to interfere" HERE.

Wish for "a BSG vid to the song Unsettled Scores" HERE.

Wish for "post-canon Kara/Lee + Bill/Saul family fic" HERE.

Comments

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

Aw *huggles Leland* I don't really blame him. I mean I do hate that he reacts so harshly (TELLING HER HE WOULDN'T MISS HER!!), but I also feel like I understand he can't control that spite/bitter/jealous/fearful strikeout. That it's just who he is at that point in his life, just like Kara's fear and tendency to run and shut down are her at those points. Sigh. Oh Kids. YOU DO THE ANGST LIKE NO OTHER COUPLE HAS EVER DONE THE ANGST! ALL OTHER SHIPS PALE IN COMPARISON! <3

That's interesting about Captain's Hand exchange. I think at the time I first watched it, I wanted him to say something sweet, but somehow his quip did seem like *so them*, retreating to that safe, kids just teasing each other place. Because they don't say that kind of stuff at that point in canon. It's just too emotionally naked. That's why I'm such a big fan of their growing and changing. I always wanted them to get to the place where Lee can say to her "I don't care, You're Kara, you're here, this is all that matters" that he gets to at the end of S4. Granted, I wanted Kara to get to that place too! I wish there had been one (aside from UBEX) declaration of her love for him. But again, hers is always in actions not words. Maybe that's why I think she's more damaged? I just can't ever see her expressing it in canon. (So I guess that harkens back to your question about it seeming too OOC for Kara to be putting it all out there declaratively.)

OMG SO MANY WORDS TODAY! WHO KNEW I HAD ALL THIS META STILL RARING TO BE LET OUT? LOL! Thanks bb. DITTO! *Hugs*

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

I wish there had been one (aside from UBEX) declaration of her love for him. But again, hers is always in actions not words.

this is probably one of my biggest (if not really the only big one except that IF that is haunting me) problems with her. people that are damaged in the way that Lee is damaged by the silent neglect of parents need to be told that they are loved. two little words (that are not asked for but given willingly) or an unprompted hug are more important for this kind of person than grand gestures. at lest it does in my experience.

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

Sigh I know. Their issues are SOOO SIMILAR. They both come from such bad backgrounds, places of fear, such big self-worth issues... It makes sense that they're both so afraid, yet... it's so sad that they can't show that love to each other more.

And sometimes what makes it worse is that canon shows Kara being so easily demonstrative with Sam and Zak. Lee is pretty much always stiff and uncomfortable from what we see of his interactions with Dee and Gianne (if that counts)--although weirdly he's pretty loose with Siobhan. Maybe cause he's paying for her. IDK!

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

And sometimes what makes it worse is that canon shows Kara being so easily demonstrative with Sam and Zak.

Gah. This is so hard to see and understand and explain. Is it because Sam and Zak are easy going and affectionate and they set the stage for their physical contact during ordinary times? Lee is physically more closed off, stiff and often using his body language as a barrier to Kara. But when he does embrace her, my gods, it's like the sun has come out after a long dark winter. They needed more times to be calm and easy and I think even at his most happy, that was never easy for Lee. It's one of his traits that is often well shown in fic, but not really talked about, i.e. how he uses his body language to keep Kara away, just like Kara uses other people to push between them. I don't know if it's that black and white and probably doesn't equate, but it's interesting to ponder. I tend to think it has to do with him being insecure and wary around Kara - that she's unpredictable and he does not like that. It's very good for him, but I think it's difficult and he stays guarded a lot of the time. His guarded stance says to Kara might make her feel disconnected from him. That's why pilots need LOTS AND LOTS OF HUGS. (And kisses and much much more!)

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

So sad!! So frustrating!! ... But....soo epic! <3

Also great analogy abt sun coming out after long dark winter when they touch each other. I swear if they could just keep one hand on each other at all times!! Their touches are so grounding! There is such relief on their faces, like they can finally relax and take a breath when they are in each others' arms!! **flail** **swoon** **sigh**

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

SSWA

Perfect hugs. Perfect together. PILOTS <3<3<3<3<3