DPP: For those who couldn't make the rewatch...

[shah-of-blah.livejournal.com]

...or just can't contain their squee to a single post (and an afterparty).

Today's DPP is all about Eye of Jupiter (with maybe a bit of bonus Rapture as well).  I decided a few days ago that one of my ideas for the DPP was lame, so I started looking around for a replacement post...and then I remembered, of course, that this is a rewatch comm.  And obviously yes we have the rewatches, but we used to have other episode-themed posts as well.  So, for this week anyway, we have an all you can post EoJ rewatch day!

A little motivation:



Obviously, this is a noteworthy episode in the story of our pilots, but it's also a fairly controversial one.  How did you feel the first time you saw it, when Lee walked into Kara's Raptor and then we got pretty much the hottest scene in all of BSG?  Were you surprised?  Were you angry that they were cheating?  Sad that Lee wouldn't cheat (oops) and Kara wouldn't divorce? 

I remember being absolutely thrilled, and I loved the way they did the reveal.  Later, it gave me hope throughout much of season four that one day we would just turn a corner and see them randomly outmaking and it would be like "Oh hi, didn't you know we've been sleeping together all this time?"  Of course, it didn't exactly happen that way.  But at least EoJ gave us the possibility.

As for them having an affair...well that's kind of a complicated question for me, since while I don't think it was right I also can't quite fault either of them for it.  Which makes me feel like something of a hypocrite, as I normally cannot forgive anyone who cheats on their partner, no way no how. So why do I continue to love them and sympathize with them?  Maybe because I was already attached to the idea of them as a pair before their significant others showed up.  Maybe because I can forgive Kara anything.  Maybe it's because I know it meant something to them and wasn't just meaningless frakking around.  Or maybe it's because I'm so drawn to the idea of them as characters who are so incredibly screwed up that they marry the wrong people...characters who are so lost that the only moment they have together is one that's stolen and fleeting.

Or maybe it's just because I'm a crazy fangirl.  Thoughts?

Now, this doesn't have to be all somber reflection.  Bring the pics.  The gifs.  The squee.  The random thoughts you have about this episode.  The recs!

Of course, I have a fic rec to start us off. 

The Chandrasekhar Limit by vnilla : This fic does not directly deal with the events of EoJ, but is all about that twisted and all-too-fleeting period between Unfinished Business and Maelstrom.  And it's beautiful.

Go ahead and rec your favorite fics about EoJ/Rapture, or the events surrounding it.  Have you written an infidelicious fic yourself?  Don't be afraid to do a little self-promotion!

P.S. Congratulations on the overwhelming participation in the friending meme!  My inbox is still recovering (I was afraid that turning off notifications would jinx it and nobody would join in...).  Well done, shippers.  Well done.  Although I'm a little disappointed that nobody guessed my name.

Bonus: I had intended to do a line on the friending meme about favorite pairing(s) other than K/L (because such a thing does exist).  Somehow, this got lost, so if you want to answer it you can do that now.

Comments

[rachelindeed.livejournal.com]

Giving in to emotions (and desires) that went way beyond what they felt for their respective partners was weak but forgivable, because it lacked the intention to hurt and deceive. To go on with that, that would be shameful. I'm glad Lee prevented that from happening. But I'm sad that Kara didn't accept to divorce Sam, and that Lee decided to keep his marriage to Dee anyway (although he was not cheating anymore, he still dishonest,IMO).

I pretty much agree with all you say here, though I'm not sure their affair lacked the intention to hurt and deceive (I think that is a more believable characterization of the table thing in Daybreak, which I feel was less convincingly emotionally motivated, but also less premeditated - both of them were drunk out of their minds and had clearly completely forgotten about Zak's existence). But Lee, at least, seemed pretty aware that he was both hurting and deceiving Dee by the time we get to EoJ. It was bothering him, as well it should have, but he didn't break off his rendez-vous with Kara until she made it clear that the messing around they had started with was not going to graduate to a more open and honest relationship. I, too, am glad that he broke things off at that stage. I think you're right that their feelings were deep and powerful, and that their weakness in giving in to them was understandable and in character. I just found it sad to watch them stay tangled up in the quadrangle mess with no end in sight, and I thought their making-out-sessions-that-are-not-leading-to-any-improvement-in-their-actual-relationships probably only made things worse. However, as I said in another comment, I think they could have behaved a lot worse. They were facing an awful situation (largely of their own making), but I believed in the depth of their desperation and emotion at this point in their relationship. I guess for many that made it easier to enjoy this part of the story as a portrayal of their forgivable and believable flaws - a humanizing element, as you say. But as for me, I just got depressed, perhaps because to me this episode seemed to signal that their feelings for each other were going to play out in a destructive way rather than in the beautiful way I had so much wanted to see.

[damao2010.livejournal.com]

I believe it lacked the intention to hurt and deceive BECAUSE it was not premeditated. It was quite the opposite, actually. After their one night stand in NC (another amazing example of spontaneity X premeditation in their relationship,IMHO), Kara was determined to keep Lee away and Lee was deeply hurt and was equally determined to stay away. After they reconnect and sort of forgave each other in UB, I didn't believe the plan itself changed, but their armours were down and they capitulated, so to speak. But it was never their intention to do so. I believe they actually thought they would go back to being friends. We will never know how the so-called affair started, but I don't see it as premeditated at all. Now, I'll give you that they certainly didn't give in to their feelings only once, and, therefore, one could argue that if the firt time was spontaneous, the next one(s) were not. That is possible. I for one don't believe they had many encounters or that they ever went beyond making out. I agree it is cheating just the same, though. After the first time(s), they obviously realized they wanted more and if that had gone on, then it would have really become something premeditated and ,as I see it, that was why Lee was not comfortable with it. He was not proud of having been weak that way, but he wanted to do the right thing - the right thing for himself (and, he believed, for Kara) and, of course, the right and honorable thing in regards to his wife.

The whole situation sucked big time but they cannot be compared to those people who truly disrespect their wedding vows and their spouses by sleeping around just for the sake of it and that want to keep up appearences at all costs. The whole thing makes me truly sad because they could have finally corrected their previous mistakes and moved on, but I don't feel disappointed in their behaviour, not really, just truly, deeply sad. And if I were to feel disappointed at all, I'd be more disappointed at Kara because she was the one who felt OK with premeditated long-term cheating.

As for the flashbacks, I think if I had seen that in the beginning of the series, it would have looked bad for them. But by time we actually saw it (on the last episode), I was already more than convinced that it was their destiny to be together. In a show that focused so much on destiny and the repetition of certain patterns through cycles of time, it was clear to me that they intended to show that Lee and Kara's love story and destiny had been connected before, in another cycle.

[rachelindeed.livejournal.com]

I hear you. Your characterization is a fair one, and I think you're right that their instances of cheating were unpremeditated to begin with. That was clearly the case in Daybreak and in Unfinished Business (though I admit one of the added scenes in UBEX that I don't view as an improvement is Lee's applecart speech, because it does make it seem more like he views what he is about to do as cheating -- he hasn't been so carried away by emotion that he's forgotten that they're both involved with other people. He seems quite calmly and rationally conscious of that; he comes across as pretty cold with that line, to me. But the reason I have fewer problems with his behavior on New Caprica than in EoJ is that in UB (and UBEX) he clearly doesn't expect either of them ever to return to their previous partners, which helps him classify his night with Kara as a functional break-up with Dee rather than as cheating on her, and he plans to tell Dee it's over immediately, the next morning. That's definitely his desire and intention. But of course that gets revised the next morning.)

I think you're also probably right that, however their affair began, it probably came as a surprise to both of them -- a moment of weakness, desperation, passion, comfort, relief. Something like that. But by the time we get to EoJ, I feel that it has reached the premeditated stage. I think the episode is designed to give that impression -- we have the awkward, guilty little talk between Lee and Dee before he heads off to meet Kara's Raptor, and in the Raptor scene Kara implies that he has been using his position as CAG to schedule her on a lot of milkruns as excuses for them to have time alone together. He clearly feels bad about his own choices, and can't go on in that way for any longer. I feel bad about those choices, too, and I think the dishonesty and premeditation are what make me react the way I do to this part of the story, though again I agree that they could have behaved much worse. I also agree that their affair seems to have been quite short, and that Lee tried to rationalize it by setting certain limits on their physical intimacy and by pushing Kara to agree with him to make a clean break from their spouses. I am more disappointed in her cheating-is-fun attitude than in his, definitely. But I think it is only fair to note that she was separated from her husband, and we have no evidence that she lied to him about her involvement with Lee. Lee was not separated from Dee, and he definitely lied. So I'm disappointed in them both. But I also agree with you that I'm mainly just sad that they couldn't find their way out of their past mistakes.

I totally understand your viewpoint on the Daybreak flashbacks, and I think you're right that the intention of that storyline was to indicate that Kara and Lee were star-crossed lovers from the very first (though I think Ron Moore's point was that they were doomed from day one, not that they were destined to be together). I think the cyclical way you interpret their instant rapport is plausible and puts their actions in the best possible light, and that's great. Personally, the table scene did not work for me, it did not speak to me with the emotional resonance of great romance or great tragedy, much as Kara's mystic destiny fell flat for many other viewers. I think perhaps it was because once again destiny was being used as a narrative replacement for the realistic development of the genuine, human characters Kara and Lee had previously been. But of course destiny and cyclical time has a context within the show that can make all of this make sense; it just didn't emotionally work for me, personally.

Always good to hear from you, by the way! :) You keep on seeing the best in these scenes, and I'll keep on being reconciled to the poof, and between us we will give a little bit of love to all the parts of Kara and Lee's story that need it the most :)

[damao2010.livejournal.com]

You keep on seeing the best in these scenes, and I'll keep on being reconciled to the poof, and between us we will give a little bit of love to all the parts of Kara and Lee's story that need it the most :)

Deal. :)*sprinkles pilotslove around*

PS.: Perhaps I'm too optimistic and biased when it comes to pilots. LOL. The most importante thing, though, is this: it's always a pleasure bouncing off ideas with you,bb. Have a wonderful Sunday!!!!

[rachelindeed.livejournal.com]

Perhaps I'm too optimistic and biased when it comes to pilots

Nonsense! Aren't we all? :)

** dances about under pilotlove sprinkles in a vague approximation of an Irish jig **

And thank you, it's always a pleasure to keep these ideas bouncing back and forth! I hope you have a lovely weekend, too :)