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no_takebacksThe Captain's Hand is one of my favorite episodes of BSG because it's primarily about pilots and it runs the gamut of emotions. We get all different varieties of pilots including:
HALF!NAKED!PILOTS!
STALKING!PILOTS
WTF!PILOTS
ANNOYED!PILOTS
WORDSMITHING!PILOTS
SWEATY!PUSHUPPING!PILOTS!
GUILTY!PILOTS
TERRIFIED!PILOTS
GLEEFUL!PILOTS
PLAYFUL!PILOTS
SWEET!PILOTS
So what's your take on Captain's Hand? Did Kara and Lee really not talk/see each other for a whole month leading up to this episode? Why not? What do you think was really going on?
What do you think of Lee's summary that he was pissed because she gets away with things and he doesn't?
Do you firmly believe they would have been frakking five minutes after this episode ended because that hug was not a "JUST FRIENDS" kind of hug? Huh, huh, do ya, do ya? ;)
Write some funny captions for the pics above if you like. Their faces! They kills me!
HALF!NAKED!PILOTS!
STALKING!PILOTS
WTF!PILOTS
ANNOYED!PILOTS
WORDSMITHING!PILOTS
SWEATY!PUSHUPPING!PILOTS!
GUILTY!PILOTS
TERRIFIED!PILOTS
GLEEFUL!PILOTS
PLAYFUL!PILOTS
SWEET!PILOTS
So what's your take on Captain's Hand? Did Kara and Lee really not talk/see each other for a whole month leading up to this episode? Why not? What do you think was really going on?
What do you think of Lee's summary that he was pissed because she gets away with things and he doesn't?
Do you firmly believe they would have been frakking five minutes after this episode ended because that hug was not a "JUST FRIENDS" kind of hug? Huh, huh, do ya, do ya? ;)
Write some funny captions for the pics above if you like. Their faces! They kills me!
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no subject
Date: 2010-03-09 08:17 am (UTC)As for whether or not I believe Lee's summary... Yes and no. I think it's more the attitude that bothers him than the fact that she gets away with things. Like, not only does she get away with hell, she walks around as if she's entitled to do so and simultaneously Oh So Wronged/Put Upon. And yes, I do believe that the combination gets under his skin because he does get called in to pull her back in line or to clean up her mess. And hardly gets away with anything when he tries to skirt the rules. (See Resurrection Ship -- Lee's idea, he gets demoted and Kara gets promoted. I wouldn't be surprised if that was still eating at him, too, in Captain's Hand.)
But it really is a fabulous episode, if for no reason beyond putting Pilots back together again.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-09 10:10 am (UTC)So what's your take on Captain's Hand? Did Kara and Lee really not talk/see each other for a whole month leading up to this episode? Why not? What do you think was really going on?
Kara got shipped off to Pegasus where she sulked and licked her wounds and was basically very unpleasant to everyone because she broke her best friend and was eaten up with guilt, while Lee spent the month recovering and sexing up Dualla while building up a shit load of resentment towards Kara. But if Lee has to have a sex life that doesn't involve Kara, I suppose Dee is better than the prostitute. <== look at me trying to find a silver lining!!
What do you think of Lee's summary that he was pissed because she gets away with things and he doesn't?
There were so many canonical things Lee could've been upset with Kara about, but what he said touched none of it imo. Lee said words but to me he didn't actually reveal anything of honesty except for the fact he was pissed off at her. It was such a perfect set-up for Lee to reveal something of himself and was wasted. Unless the purpose was to reveal that Lee gets jealous of Kara, but we already knew that in Hand of God.
Do you firmly believe they would have been frakking five minutes after this episode ended because that hug was not a "JUST FRIENDS" kind of hug? Huh, huh, do ya, do ya? ;)
The extended scene firmly ruins any pilot!fantasies I might've had so my answer is no: Dee walked in, broke up the hug and then Lee took her to bed. But on a friendship level I really adored K/L in that moment. If I ignore the words coming out of their mouths and just concentrate on the body language and the lengthy hand holding, then it all seems much more positive and soothing. I wonder if holding hands is the way pilots recharge the friendship batteries?
I'm not really a fan of Captain's Hand except for Kara's puppy dog eyes for Lee to forgive her. But there is one thing that is very revealing about Kara, though, and it's the fact that she doesn't really care who he sleeps with as long as he is still her friend. Gotta love her for that.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-09 10:41 am (UTC)Okay so Kara is obviously disturbed that she shot Lee,that makes sense, but Lee having this delayed reaction and being pissed about something that happende a while ago is ridiculous, I get that he sometimes gets jealous but i think he knows that's his problem.
I think it would have made more sense if they had made it about how Lee thinking Kara wasn't there for him and not contacting him about his recovery and closing off or something like that,idk
Perversely I quite like the standoff in the cell,it's ugly but you can see Lee feels horrible the second he mentions the shooting,it's really written on their faces. You can see that they don't really enjoy hurting each other but can't help it.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-09 10:48 am (UTC)I don't really get the resentment about Lee taking up with Dee (apart from their annoying rhyming names). The last thing he heard Kara say was she was hung up on a resitance leader, sure he could hang around and wait for her but for all he knows she's in love with someone else, why not try and find happiness with someone who actually shows some interest in him romantically.
(I don'T want to stirr anything up though)
no subject
Date: 2010-03-09 12:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-03-09 12:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-03-09 01:01 pm (UTC)Yes, the friendship is incredibly important to them. I love that it has not yet been abandoned by the writers.
And I haven't watched the extended scene. And from your description, ain't gonna. ;P I prefer to stay firmly planted in K/L fantasyland. Feh.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-09 01:10 pm (UTC)The thing is, once they gave Kara Sam as a foil for Lee, they decided they needed the same thing for Lee, a foil for Kara. The problem was there was no one really suitable other than Dee (who actually works kind of well as a foil) but they didn't take the time to set it up. We never saw what Lee presumably suddenly saw/was attracted to in Dee. The Kara/Sam thing was just as sudden but it also relied on an easy trope, since he was the new guy, the summer camp fling, etc. And they took pains to show us the ways in which he was a foil to Lee, namely in his easygoing attitude when Kara's a bitch the morning of The Farm.
A lot of people say L/D got a disservice because all their scenes were deleted but I think it's a bigger problem because it was too messy right from the start. They started shuffling scenes around into different episodes and cutting them and the start of it was all tied up with his depression and the shooting and Billy's death and you never really got insight from Lee that this was actually WHAT HE WANTED. They went right from him rebuffing her in the gym to them on a date and they relied on fans to do too much conjecture about how they got there. Presumably Scar's aborted sexing/there's no us was the last straw for Lee, but they needed I think one small scene where we saw him CHOOSING DEE purposefully. Just like we saw Kara CHOOSING SAM, albeit illogically, in the last scene of the Farm and then again in Scar.
They really did that relationship a disservice early on and if they had taken some time to show us that they did want each other (I would've hated it as a Kara fan probably but) it would have helped later when he goes back to her and tries to make the marriage work in TABFAYW.
Cracktastic Subtitles
Date: 2010-03-09 01:18 pm (UTC)I'm gonna take your side, Commander, because she shot me
and I'm totally pissed right now.
Hmmmm....Dear Lee, Sorry I shot you. Please don't sleep
with Dualla. Love, Kara. Yeah. That oughtta do it.
I'm completely pissed because you shot me, but I also love
you and wanna strip those pants right off and frak you here.
Holy crap, I have the con!!!
no subject
Date: 2010-03-09 01:25 pm (UTC)Some of the deleted scenes would have reduced the "shock" value of Lee waking up next to Dee. You know, they show him in bed with someone - maybe it's kara - and then we see it's Dee. Feh. Sometimes I feel totally manipulated by the writers. (Of course, I am, but just hate it sometimes.) Stupid writers are stupid.
(I'm not so coherent this early!)
Just like we saw Kara CHOOSING SAM, albeit illogically,
LOL!
ETA: You know, I just never thought Lee seemed attracted to Dee EVER. No chemistry there. Safe. Easy. BORING. (Ok, feel better now.)
no subject
Date: 2010-03-09 01:37 pm (UTC)As for Lee hooking up with someone after Scar, of course he has every right to do so. But it's his choice and once he makes it (because let's face it, both Lee and Kara thought Sam was dead or at the very least would never get rescued - which means Kara was never going to stay an old maid forever, she just needed time to deal with the guilt of breaking her promise to Sam) no one should feel sorry for Lee when Kara finally gets to rescue Sam and has someone to be happy with too, the way Lee gets to be with Dee. And, ahh, did Lee ever actually ask Kara to be with him before she rescued Sam? I think he was playing it cool when Kara was free and single and then later he was hip deep in a prostitute and pining after his dead girlfriend Ghianne while simultaneously flirting with Dee. Lee was a busy boy. Kara knew Lee was attracted to her, hence the 'let's get what we can right now frak' but I doubt she had any misconceptions he was in love with her. And by Lee's own mouth he never realised how he felt about her until after they sexed her on New Cap. I think Kara did her best with the signals Lee put out - you're a whore who can't keep her pants on, no I won't accept your apology, hug and kiss and thanks for bringing in the trash, you're dreaming it, is busy seeing a prostitute flirting with Dee and pining about Ghianne, slow the sex down and what about us, immediately hooks up with Dee and wishes her luck in finding someone else. Did I miss anything?
It became Kara's problem when she left Lee naked that morning and she paid a high price and had to fight her way back into his life. It's just such a shame Lee wasn't able to forgive her when it came to the crunch.
I suspect I should apologise because this topic makes me want to type a million words a minute. I'm promise I'm not arguing, but simply offering another point of view.
And to end my point I'm using this icon from Scar...and if Lee's response to being kissed like that from Kara was that there was never a hope for him ever then there's nothing more to be said.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-09 02:24 pm (UTC)From Lee's perspective should he have gone "you might be in love with someoneelse but he's probably dead so let's go ahead anyway". if she's in love with someone else, the question if he's dead or not, doesn't change that.
also I don't blame kara for being happy when sam's back (the teasing is a bit much and quite cruel of her, but I guess she was drunk...)
I just prefer lee with dee than him pining for her season after season and let's face it kara would have been happy with sam, while lee's standing on the sidelines emoing and being angry and alone isn't something I'd like to watch. even if Lee/dee were using each other (which I don't really agree with) they're not openly harming anyone else, not to their knowledge anyway. (apart from billy of course, which dee didn't handle very well, but she hardly did anything worse than Kara and Lee did later on in the series and it had to do with the actor leaving, so I think she could be forgiven).
anyway nevermind i didn't want to upset anyone and I don't want to turn this into a lee vs kara debate.that would be very much against the original intent.You know maybe she was better off with sam, kinda happened in the end anyway. i just don't like to see everything lee does as a betrayal, I don't thinks that's quite fair.
I don't think this is the kinda thing for me, that's why i deleted my lj last year. feel free to delete this comment or ignore!
no subject
Date: 2010-03-09 03:01 pm (UTC)I kinda understand where Lee's anger comes from... I mean, rationally he knows that Kara never meant to shoot him and that she probably felt terribly guilty about that, but he also needed her to visit him in sickbay and show him that she truly cared (because our boy is insecure like that as far as Kara's feelings are concerned!). And the fact that Kara never showed up --while he was awake or course ;)-- pisses him off in a kind of irrational, self-centered way. Besides, we all know how stubborn Lee is and how well he can hold grudges... And then he meets Kara in the Pegasus with her typical Starbuck attitude, and that becomes the perfect excuse for him to be openly pissed at her without bringing up all the you-shoot-me issue straightforwardly (and I find it interesting that even when he throws it in Kara's face --it was inevitable after all--, he never says "since you shoot me" but "since I was shot" (or something similar)). Also, let's not forget the rivalry/jealousy component of K/L relationship... I see the logic of Lee admitting that thing about Kara getting away with things while he doesn't... Because, in Lee's eyes, Starbuck is the top gun who can buck authority and it's fine, and he --being the Almiral's son and the CAG-- must be perfect and live up to everyone's expectations.
Also, my two cents on the Lee/Dee issue... I agree that the Lee/Dee storyline is poorly writen (and maybe that's why I never took Lee's feelings for Dee too serioulsy), but I get why Lee openly embraced his relationship with Dualla after "Sacrifice". It's not only the "Sacrifice" incident, but also Kara's brutal rejection in "Scar." What was he supposed to do? He made a big step confessing that there actually was an "us", and Kara promptly dismissed him as an "easy lay" and admitted that she was in love with another guy.
(And hey, just for the record, I am not trying to blame Kara here --I am a rabid Kara's apologist!--, it's also that it's easy for me to understand why Lee decides to give his relationship with Dee a try. And maybe he is not being honest about his feeligns towards Dee and/or Kara, but Kara isn't, either).
(also, Lee half naked in that scene with Dualla is incredibly hot. OMG, his body looks glorious here! And there is something about his boxers... ;P)
no subject
Date: 2010-03-09 03:04 pm (UTC)You'd think it'd be easier to find good screencaps of that bit of hotness? NOT SO MUCH! ;)
no subject
Date: 2010-03-09 03:36 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-03-09 03:44 pm (UTC)My issues with Lee/Dee just have a lot more to do with disliking Dee than anything Lee does, just cause I take the entire relationship in its own contrived terms. It really squicked me how she seemed to be trying to fill up her daddy issues by marrying Lee, since she was insanely jealous of Kara's relationship with Bill Adama. That all came out in deleted scenes, but it stuck to the character for me because it made everything make so much more sense.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-09 03:55 pm (UTC)--The frakking title. It's all about their handshake. No question. (Who calls it The Kara's Hand? I forget now. Indi?)
--Half-naked Lee. Alone or not, it's hot. Boxer briefs=hotness. Good choice Leland.
--Kara skulking and waiting for Lee. BECAUSE SHE MISSES HIM.
--Kara storming into the head and cussing a whole hell of a lot of big, half-naked men out. Her pissed off faces = so much win.
--Lee barking that they all need to stow the laughter.
--Kara and Case having a brainstorming session. Female friendship! Bechdel test scene WIN! AND THEY FIGURE IT OUT!
--Sweaty pushups.
--"Alright, here we go. FINALLY."
--DID ANYONE ORDER AN ANGST PIZZA OR 12?
--"You're the best pilot we have." "About time you admitted that."
--Kara's gleeful upside down face in the cockpit as she screams out orders to her squadrons and blows up cylons!
--Faux punchy boxing gloves banter about mornings with Tigh!
--Kara's face before she sticks out her hand. All open and worried and proud and hesitant.
--The way Lee grabs it and won't let go. And tries to tell her what's bothering him (even if he isn't being fully honest).
--"You should see the way my brain works."
--"Are we okay?" (There is totally an "us.")
--"You have a brain?"
--The little smack on the shoulder she gives him.
--Their faces right before they pull into the hug.
--Kara's relaxed face over Lee's shoulder and the way she just sags into him. ♥ ♥
no subject
Date: 2010-03-09 04:48 pm (UTC)I love this episode. How can I not?
There is naked Lee (even if it is with Dee), pilots being fun and bantering and the hug. I love their hugs. Lee being emo and pissed at Kara for stupid reasons but then realizing he needs her and they kiss and makeup. Okay, the kissing part happened in my head.
Our pilots surely know how to hold a grudge. I can see them talking only about work and finding it hard to talk about the elephant in the room so to speak. I think Kara was probably feeling guilty about shooting Lee and he was being an ass because he thinks she doesn't care about him and that's why she didn't come to see him. She totally does care and she did come and see him after Dee left.
Lee's reasons for why he was pissed with Kara was a load of crap. They both have just as many responsibilites but Kara knows how to have and be silly to relieve that stress while Lee just has stick up his ass. And Kara gets away with little shit because she is smart and she has activities that she enjoys. Lee likes to sulk in the corner while everyone else is having fun.
Of course, they were frakking five minutes after the episode ended! What kind of a silly question is that?:)
no subject
Date: 2010-03-09 04:48 pm (UTC)The conversation was getting a bit serious. I rather not talk about Lee/Dee or Dee/Billy but just Lee/Kara.
Great highlights of the episode, Tara!
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Date: 2010-03-09 04:59 pm (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2010-03-09 05:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-03-09 06:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-03-09 06:07 pm (UTC)