DPP: The Sparring Leads to Sex (ficlet day)

[deborah-judge.livejournal.com]

Pilots fight. Pilots love. Sometimes they do both together.

Here's an interesting article about the trope of sparring leading to sex. It gives some examples of how it can work, different things it can look like, and what kinds of things (in the author's view) can make it hot.

What do you like to see in a sparring leads to sex fic? Please tell us in a prompt. Then look at other people's requests and see if you can fill them. As usual, please warn for violence, blood, or anything else that needs a warning.

Comments

[rirenec.livejournal.com]

Great article! (Hope I'm setting this out right?)
Totally and completely emotionally unhealthy place at the start. (Maybe post NC.) Bit of drunk & angry verbal play, hitting their weaknesses. One going to run off (don't mind which.) Then them being grabbed and pinned where it plays out.

[deborah-judge.livejournal.com]

I really like it when they're angry at each other for some good and legitimate reason (and they've got lots) and instead of sulking they just hit each other until they're done. I also really like when one of the provokes the fight for this reason - so it looks like they're picking a fight, but really they're trying to take care of the other by providing a catharsis.

So I'm particularly fond of (from the article):
A: [slap]
B: Oh you can do better than that.
A: [slap] [slap] [slap] [pant]
B: Feel better?
A: Yeah.
B: So do I. Now fuck me.
A: [kiss]
B: [okay!]

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

Which is why Unfinished Business works so well. It's very very difficult to think of any other way they could've gotten past what happened without that messy, awful, brutal, self-punishing, cathartic(!) physical brawl.

(Before I started BSG, if someone had told me I'd find an episode where the two characters I love most try to beat the shit out of each other to be my favorite of the series and also the most romantic of the whole series...I would've told them they were smoking crack. Hee. Oh pilots.)

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

I think the beauty of UB is that the whole idea of settling grudges via boxing was sanctioned. It's different than the bare-knuckled fights I've seen in fic. Those are very hard to take sometimes. When I was writing my Fight Club fic, I remember walking a very fine line between sanctioned violence and going over the top. The violence had to mean something and not just be pilots hurting each other, so I saved the big fight for a big moment of angst and revelation where that heightened physicality had been earned.

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

Maybe, although Kara does cheat anyway by using her feet. And it's not like anyone referees it. So it's not exactly sanctioned? But it also doesn't come out of nowhere and that's pretty important. It has more context then certainly.

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

But it is sanctioned by Bill when he talks about it being an old tradition in the Fleet. No, Kara's leg sweep isn't exactly on the menu, but the entire thing is sanctioned and relatively common. (And I am sure Kara's leg sweep wasn't the first illegal move in the entire history of The Dance.)

ETA: And there was a referee of sorts: Saul and Cottle were on hand and my guess is that they stopped things when they needed to.

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

But Saul leaves before they start fighting, remember? He says it's over and haven't you had enough fighting Starbuck and then she stalks at Lee all "where the hell do you think you're going?"

So technically K/L's fight is NOT sanctioned even though the night/event of "dancing" is. So I think it actually hues a lot closer to Fight Club. But it's not someone just picking a fight with the other *exactly*. I mean it kind of is, but it is still within this context of a bigger event, which kind of makes it okay. I don't think Kara would've come at him at any other time/way--like just tossing him a pair of gloves on the flight deck or in the mess or anything. Maybe in the gym, if there were only two of them there. Hey THERE'S A PROMPT FOR SOMEBODY!

PROMPT: Take the fight from UB and transplant it to another location. How does that change things (if at all?)

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

Yes! I agree completely. I don't think they'd have had a knock-down, drag-out fight without the boxing gloves and the loose structure of the event to contain it. :)

Excellent prompt!

[pennyante.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that is a fine line. I've read (and loved) your Fight Club fic, but I can remember how nervous I was initially about the premise. But fics are another country! It worked.

That idea of "sanction" is a really interesting one. I mean, part of the issue is that the status of women in colonial society starts off being (more) equal, so that all the fears/hang-ups we have about violence against women are somewhat muted. Women are less culturally vulnerable, there? Part of the "sanction" of the fight comes from stuff like co-ed professional sports teams. I love it.

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

(sorry this is so late)

Thank you for the lovely comment on my Fight Club fic. I am glad you enjoyed it and that the way I handled the fighting seemed to work. I so appreciate it! <3

[winegums.livejournal.com]

I think the beauty of UB is that the whole idea of settling grudges via boxing was sanctioned.

That and boxing was repeatedly shown to be a part of their daily routines in the early seasons, UB works so well partly because it picked up on that detail and put it front and centre of the episode.

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

From that article:
"For the same reasons I don't want to read about A just humping the furniture, I don't want to read about A just hitting B because B is there and A wants to hit something. That is not The Sparring Leads to Sex."

Lol. Oh hello there, Demetrius sex.

It's an interesting article. I'm not particularly in love with violence turning to sex as a trope but I do like the kiss me or kill me vibe for pilots--obviously it's a very natural one and I've used it to provoke sex for them or at least kissing in a few cases.

I actually think in this particular pairing, a few writers have over-relied a bit on how physically violent they can be, and you'll be reading a fic where there's tension and arguing, and then suddenly Kara's "fists are curling/arm is raising" and wanting to punch Lee because.... she did it in canon once? IDK, context is everything and I think in K/L fic some writers mistake their tendency for being hotheads who aren't afraid of physical altercations for meaning any punching/physical violence between them is warranted. It can sometimes overshadow their other tendencies (I think they're supportive and kind to each other far more often than not), which kind of puts me off on the trope as well. I think it can be difficult to execute well and I think a lot of writers (even very good writers, writers whose other fics I really like a lot) cross a line for me where it turns into ... caricature or just unnecessarily hurtful and distasteful to me. (This is true of both verbal and physical fighting honestly. In a few instances I've read things the pilots say to each other that just make me go--oh no, that's too much. AND no way would A let B start smooching with them after that.)

Shall try to think of worthy prompts later.

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

Yes, there is always a risk for things to get ugly and distasteful. I love this trope when it is done well and the violence is not abusive. I agree that there needs to be the appropriate context for it to work. They're very physical, but doesn't always mean hitting. That said, if one is writing kink specifically (which often pushes tropes to their limits), then I'm not a concerned very much with context. :)

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

Yes. I also hate that ...non-shippers often look at these scenes (UB and the punching in KLG1) and call the relationship abusive because of that. I find that to be so...ignorant of context and simplistic. :(

What do you consider "writing kink specifically" to be? Just porn without plot? Or something that's supposed to be subversive/go too far or farther than usual to shock?

I find that if kink twists their personalities too much, I can't enjoy it. Brain just says "nope sorry -- Lee is not that pathetic or Kara is not that cruel" or whatever. But then again, I'm super (overly?) picky about characterization always.

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

By writing kink explicitly, I generally mean taking a trope, such as violence-related sex, and pushing it its limits by (usually) taking a character trait and expanding it. And yes, it often pushed people out of character, but for my preferences, that's okay in that context. I see it as an exploration of potential extremes of behavior and I like that idea.

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

EEEEEEEEEEE! THIS IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE TROPES EVER. *swoon*

H/C fic where the comfort comes because pilots have physically hurt each other. I want to see Kara pissed off and storming around the ship until Lee pushes her into exploding and hitting him. He can hit her back or not, or just keep provoking her until they start kissing and have sex. Then I want tenderness and comfort about their bruises and ouchies. :)

[embolalia.livejournal.com]

Agreed - excellent trope :)

I've particularly enjoyed with Kara/Lee the stories where their violence comes less from a place of anger and more from fighting/sparring being an acceptable way to interact and be hot/sweaty/close to each other when for many reasons sex is a bed idea. I've touched on that in drabbles and I know there are a couple great fics out there, but feel free to write more, team :D

[winegums.livejournal.com]

I've particularly enjoyed with Kara/Lee the stories where their violence comes less from a place of anger and more from fighting/sparring being an acceptable way to interact and be hot/sweaty/close to each other when for many reasons sex is a bed idea.

I see what you did there ;)

And the same goes for me too. The idea of them fighting not just each other, but their feelings for each other, is so very hot (and UB absolutely nailed that), but I love when things shift from fighting to what we all want them to do.

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

I'd actually like to see actual sparring, like boxing in the gym as recreation, where one of them takes it a little to seriously and they end up wrestling. And frakking. ;)

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

I have a half-finished fic of this ilk. Sadly I have not been able to finish it in MONTHS. I can't seem to nail down the emotions. :(

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

Ooh. Maybe this is a sign that it's time to try again! :P

[word-vomity.livejournal.com]

I personally have no real squicks with their violence with each other. I would in so many other pairing and fandoms, but in this setting, with these characters...I don't know, it just fits. It's the end of humanity for pete's sake. All rules and expectations just shift in that scope. Plus, they always stand on such equal footing that I never worry much about the ethical dilemmas that follow their run-ins.

Not that I want or would enjoy seeing them beat on each other consistently, but now and again, it's nice. OK not 'nice' but deeply emotive. Maybe because it's finally an actual admission of their connection? I mean we needed something and somehow sweet nothings always seem pretty danged impossible with them.

I'm glad it was used sparingly in canon, but I definitely enjoy a heaping dose of it in fic. When their fire turns to passion and guh! Yes please. And it's always so meaningful and telling when it happens. It's never just violence for violence sake. It's always about so much more that they can't say to each other.

It's unhealthy no doubt, but still pretty hot.

OK, someone hurry up and write some! ;)

[word-vomity.livejournal.com]

i like it when pilots say something they only meant to be a little bit mean, but it was actually incredibly hurtful. and one of them storms off (preferably kara) all like, "frak you," but what she actually means is, "hold me, please, because you just fucking gutted me emotionally."

this is very much exactly how I feel. It just kills me in such a wonderful way.