Thursday DPP: The Incomparables

[pennyante.livejournal.com]

We like to think of the pilots as unique. And of course they are; our gutsy but screwy Kara and noble but flawed Lee, simmering away in their tortuous stew of baggage and war and Hero Problems and temperamental differences—they’re in a class of their own.

But do we see other duos in pop culture who have something in common with their dynamic? Mulder and Scully’s way of perfectly complementing each other, professionally? Dharma and Greg’s exaggeratedly mismatched approaches to law and social conventions? From Casablanca, Rick and Ilsa’s situation of being separated by side effects of a culture of war?

Do we know other individual characters who are like either one of them? (Is it just me, or does Dawson Leary tell us something about a young Lee Adama? Tell me if you hate that idea, I can handle it.) Some of the characters who remind me most of Kara are strong female characters on nighttime soaps, like Sandra Oh’s Christina on Grey’s Anatomy and Blair Waldorf on Gossip Girl. ‘Cause ladies who are both powerful and  flawed ain’t the easiest to come by.

Though I haven’t read it yet, I know there’s an impressively scaled Hunger Games/BSG crossover fic out there. I wonder if Katniss, Peeta, and Gale tell us anything about Kara and Lee (and Sam).

So—to whom should we compare the pilots?

Who do we see in shades of Starbuck and Apollo? In what ways? Too many of my examples above are from American TV (sorry), but let's allow our brains to roam through whatever we want. TV, movies, books, graphic novels—nothing’s off the table. This would also be a great time to rec crossovers that tap into an AU dynamic.

Comments

[pennyante.livejournal.com]

Does anybody here read the Wheel of Time? Just as I was about to head off to sleep (I'm on a backwards sleep schedule), this struck me:

Perrin and Faile.

Now, look; they're fine, but they're definitely not my favorite characters. Still, Faile's volatile boldness is Kara-esque, in its way; and Perrin's blacksmith/warrior business has a kind of Lee Adama "am I a lawyer or a soldier?" quality, maybe?

I *wish* a lot of those female characters were more like Kara...

[wicked-sassy.livejournal.com]

Yes, from what I remember of WoT, I agree!

[cosetteferaud.livejournal.com]

I read the first few books ages ago, but yeah, Perrin and Faile. I didn't love them either but there's a certain pilots vibe to them, yeah. And since you brought up WoT, Aviendha reminds me a bit of Kara: she was very feisty, loyal, fierce and badass --at least until she became friends with Elayne (and part of Rand's harem. Ugh).

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

I'm with you on this. Even if I always seen Kara more like the Sarah Connor from T:SCC. But the one from T2 also.

[kittykiernan.livejournal.com]

There's another big one I know of that just isn't coming to mind right now because it's 1 am and I am braindead.

But I've been watching Supernatural lately, and Sam and Dean actually remind me a lot of the sibling/friendship aspect of the relationship between Kara and Lee. Lots of teasing, lots of bickering, lots of punching... They're very different people - total opposites in some ways - and they don't always get along. In fact, sometimes they downright can't stand the sight of each other. But when it comes down to it, they are best friends, mean more to each other than anyone else in the world, and they would die for each other in a heartbeat.

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

Waw - there are a lot of characters out there that remind me of them in one way or another.

I won't even start on the whole Aeryn/John stuff beucase then we'll all get angry that some couples get happy endings and some don't.

But I will mention Sarah and Harm from JAG. From Mac's problems with drinking and guys to Harm leaving flying in order to become a lawyer and their interactions.

Then, even if I know that some of you don't particularly like the books I do see a lot of Kara in Eve Dallas (from JD Robb's In Death series). troubled childhood, sense of justice and duty, inability to express feeling, a lot. BUT, and it's a big but, even if I just LOVE-LOVE-LOVE Jamie as Roarke because he would rock in that role, there is no way that Lee and Roarke have something in common except looks and a great capability to love.

I'll end this for the moment with a guilty admission. I marathoned through BH90210 in the last couple of months and all the time I saw Brandon as a very young (less troubled) Lee.

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

I was thinking about the John/Aeryn thing this morning. I actually see John as Kara and Aeryn as Lee. I know, it's probably not what most people think, but Aeryn is a SOLDIER, and even though she's sexy and flirty and BADASS, she doesn't have the swagger which I think John has that reminds me of Kara. I also don't think Aeryn is broken at all - she's alien. I know people feel VERY differently, so I'll wear body armor today. I like John = Kara because they are both smartass, funny and tend to wear their hearts on their sleeves (although I know Kara often hides her REAL feelings, she is pretty on the surface about likes/dislikes, etc.) In reality, I think they don't match up all that well for Kara/Lee, although there are shades of them for sure.

And yes, they got a glorious ending. Well-earned and deserved. RDM should have taken notes. Jerk.

[eridani8.livejournal.com]

When I saw this question I thought of Mac & Harm too! The overall arch of the pairing is pretty similar as well; frequently on the edge of something but generally out of time with one another, whether because of career, significant others, crazy obessions etc.

And there are a lot of personality parallels, as you pointed out. Of course the ending went nothing like Kara/Lee's did...

[wicked-sassy.livejournal.com]

I'm quite fond of the movie "Run Lola Run," and keep hoping someone will do a BSG crossover with it. Lola & Kara are similar to me in that they are very athletic, definitely think outside of the box, they go to great extremes for their loved ones, and kick the asses of anyone who gets in their way. Lee is stubborn similar to Lola's boyfriend Manni, but Manni is less principled and sensitive than Lee.

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

Katniss and Gale remind me soooo much of mini-versions of Kara and Lee with Katniss being such a fierce closed-off little huntress and Gale being all about democracy...and Katniss. Rayruz wrote a wonderful Hunger Games crossover (http://tulipfic.livejournal.com/63004.html) that sets up a lot of similarities between Kat/Gale and Kara/Lee actually. It's excellent, and the backstory with Zak just guts me.

Another fictional couple that reminds me of pilots is Rob Ryan and Cassie Maddox from Tana French's mystery novel In the Woods. They're cop partners and they do get entangled and...manage to spectacularly fuck themselves up. But this K/L graphic (http://no-takebacks.livejournal.com/30358.html#cutid1) with a quote from In the Woods that I made really symbolizes that bond I think. Such an excellent book!

I see shades of pilots and their relationship in other characters here and there but these two are the most strongly reminiscent of them for me.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

YES to the Rob/Cassie comparison. So heartbreaking, and still so good. To me, they're the only ones who've ever come close to pilots, even though I can see the Katniss/Gale thing going there if it'd been allowed to develop.

[rachelmack.livejournal.com]

WHATEVER, LEE IS TOTALLY PEETA BECAUSE HE'S A WOOBIE AND WOULD TOTALLY BAKE FOR KARA

[cosetteferaud.livejournal.com]

But oddly the ending of MJ makes me feel so differently than BSG canon. Lol. I want Gale to go off and be happy with Johanna. And I never want Lee to fall for anyone else.

Same here! I think it’s because Mockingjay ruined Katniss for me. By the end of the book I didn’t care for her anymore, I could barely recognize the character I loved in the previous books. All I wanted was to slap her in the face LOL (Gale defintely deserved someone better --like Johanna!) And of course, this never happened with Kara. I adored her right to the bitter end --and that’s why I want Lee to grieve forever! (pretty unrealistic and definitely unhealthy, poor guy, but I guess this is my greedy shipper heart talking :P).

And yes to all the Cassie and Rob similarities, of course! They never reminded me much of Kara and Lee individually but their dynamic as friends and their romantic story arc is very pilot-y indeed. The whole thing is just so horrible --like Unfinished Business without the making up LOL. I just can't thank you enough for reccing those wonderful books! <3 <3

[pocochina.livejournal.com]

Oh, like my actual favorite pairing of ever?

(http://s1118.photobucket.com/albums/k614/pocochina/?action=view&current=fivebyfivestuffed-ghost.gif)

#don't need no canon

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

I love Faith so much. This makes me want to rewatch Angel.

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

S3 pilots are Catherine and Heathcliff all the way (no gender swap required *g*).

[rachelindeed.livejournal.com]

I've been rewatching Star Trek: Deep Space Nine lately, and I've come to the conclusion that if Kara and Lee had a lovechild, it would be Major Kira Nerys from that show. I feel like she combines a lot of their attributes in interesting ways. Because RDM was very involved in that show, a lot of people see Kira as a precursor to Kara, but in some ways she's a lot more stable, less self-destructive, and more confident in herself than Kara ever was. But she still has moments of doubt, and extreme anger, and times when she's not really comfortable with her violent past. It's interesting how, after a history of occupation and genocide, she wars with herself regarding her view of Cardassians. Sometimes she reaches out to individuals, but she also has an abiding hatred that just won't let her apologize for the civilians she killed during the occupation. I feel like she's a split of Kara and Lee's attitude toward Cylons.

There are many elements of her character that relate to Kara: her strength and skill as a soldier and leader, her religious faith, her personal loyalty, her inability to avoid telling idiots what idiots they are. But there are also elements of Lee's character in her: an uncompromising moralism, a "this is all that matters" patience and support for her lover and his many identity struggles, and a deep investment in the political freedom of her people.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

idk if this is as well-known as it should be, but Rob and Cassie of Tana French's In The Woods (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Woods-Tana-French/dp/0340924748) remind me VERY strongly of pilots, especially when it comes to the way they interact - it's almost as easy and instinctive as pilots (and they're not lovers, but there is still UST between them).

It's funny, because it is Rob who reminds me of Kara and Cassie doesn't remind me of Lee so much, but somehow together, they remind me very much of pilots - which is rare in any other work.

I also like the JAG comparison. And in Firefly, Mal and Inara's back-and-forth sniping and strong awareness of their mutual attraction (while refusing to change their respective ways and holding each other at a distance) is a bit like pilots too, though they're less casually intimate with each other/don't have the best friends-and-everything-else connection that pilots do.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

I also think Will and Lyra of His Dark Materials are a bit like what pilots might have been as children - Lyra is a bit of a wild child, an orphan who is used to fending for herself and doesn't give a fig for rules but is fiercely protective of "her" people in much the same way Kara is, while Will (like young!Lee) has an absent father and a mother who's not quite all there, and he has to be responsible for her like I imagine Lee was for Zak (though Will's mother is not abusive, thank goodness).

[winegums.livejournal.com]

Also, I will probably provoke lols with this but - Sherlock Holmes and John Watson in the new Sherlock.



There's something about the way they balance each other out - Sherlock as the wilful genius who doesn't care about not making the top brass look stupid, or sparing people's feelings (complete with a seeming death) - he even sits down with his enemy across a table for a little one-to-one and lets him get under his skin almost like Kara did in Flesh and Bone, while John looks like the one who has it all together, but started off trying to come to terms with his identity after leaving the military (and he might seem unassuming, but he's the one who keeps his service revolver on hand to shoot people who endanger Sherlock).

And he is, again, the one left completely devastated by Sherlock's death but who believes in him no matter what - like a certain Viper pilot-turned-President we all know and love.

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

I love this comparison. : )

I don't ship John and Sherlock (I love them best as besties) but I adore this comparison.

Also-- PIC!!!!

also, this

[winegums.livejournal.com]

Mainly for the falling-in-love-with-your-baby-brother's-girlfriend thing (and for the having guilt about that for years and years), as well as for the trying-and-failing-to-make-it-work thing, and then them both marrying other people.

Tristan and Susannah are nothing like Lee and Kara in character (except for Tristan's protectiveness over his own younger brother, Samuel) but the similarities are uncanny.

And speaking of Tristans, there's also a hint of Tristan and Isolde in pilots, with the sheer dumb luck of meeting the wrong person first and their guilt over betraying people they both care for with the infidelity.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

Also, I cannot believe no one has mentioned these two - Mary and Matthew Crawley of Downton Abbey:



They're not really similar as characters to our pilots, but they're the only tv couple I've ever seen who even come close to being as good at looking at each other longingly. And then there is Mary's contrariness (a product of her time more than her family life) and her tendency to self-flagellate or step nobly aside because she believes Matthew loves someone else. And Matthew is the classic good boy who really truly believes they're doomed and will only hurt everyone around them.

Still not NEARLY as angsty as pilots, though, even if Michelle Dockery is the first actress I've seen since Katee herself who is as good at saying things non-verbally.

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

OMG YES!!!! ALL THE OMGS TO THIS!!!


CAPSLOCK X 1,000,000,000,000,000


And Mary-- wow. She's such a complicated, layered character. Took me forever to warm up to her but once I dod --WOW. Fangirl for life. And Matthew is just .... <33333333. And them together OMGYESSOMUCHPILOTYNESSOMG.