DPP: Shifting The Sides of the Quadrangle of Doom

[winegums.livejournal.com]

One of the most common complaints when it came to canon and pilots is that pilots' alternate love interests (aka Dee and Sam) just didn't seem to work as credible obstacles to keep pilots apart, and that they weren't even all that interesting to watch as relationships, which ultimately resulted in the turn for the stupid that was TAB.

Today's question is, what if you could pick new secondary love interests for pilots? Is there anyone in the massive extended cast of BSG who could have actually brought more and better to the Quadrangle of Doom than Sam and Dee? Would the story have been more believable if the "dead guy" Kara was hung up on in Scar was Helo (leave aside the fact that he's back on Galactica by then) or the woman Lee discovered an unexpected attraction to was Athena/Boomer (forcing him to reconsider his hatred of Cylons), or Laura?


Pilots contemplate picking out other people to romance/frak since they can't have each other...not fun but they'll do it.


Is there any way at all to make the Quadrangle of Doom palatable/worth our time, shipper nation?

Comments

[rachelmack.livejournal.com]

I always thought that Helo should have been Lee's competition, not Sam.

How that could have affected the Helo/Sharon/Boomer/Chief dynamic might have been interesting, too.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

me too!

Don't get me wrong, I love the fact that Helo and Kara's friendship is totally platonic - but if anyone in the storyline was to serve as actual competition to Lee for Kara's affections, he would have been a lot more believable than Sam.

[sugarhaven.livejournal.com]

I kind of prefer the Kara/Helo relationship to be platonic. She needs at least one friend that is not constantly trying to get into her pants. I don't think Helo is actually that much more developed compared to Sam. He's definitely quite a doormat like Sam and not sure if he could really challenge Kara. On the other hand, Helo and Kara knew each other for quite some time and they have a great dynamic, so it would be easier for me to believe that there were genuine feelings between them.

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

Umm, if she'd stuck around longer, I always thought Kendra would have been really hot with Lee.


....and with Kara too. : )

[winegums.livejournal.com]

ooooh, yes! I like this idea...

[ninety6tears.livejournal.com]

Agreed on both counts :)

[cosetteferaud.livejournal.com]

I couldn't agree more :)

[kdbleu.livejournal.com]

ooh, yes. Kendra would have been great with either or both.

[sugarhaven.livejournal.com]

I love that idea. Lee and Kendra are certainly very hot together. She's also as tough as Kara and Kara both hates her and respects her. I could never understand whether Dee was stupid/naive or bold/courageous to step between Starbuck and Apollo. The Kendra/Lee dynamic would be much less the unequal 'hero-worship' Dee/Lee and much closer to the push and pull like the Kara/Lee. Lee/Dee and Kara/Sam are just pretty pathetic and the show makes it obvious that these are not good or healthy choices for our pilots. I think thinks wouldn't be so black and white if Lee was with Kendra and Kara with Helo (or more developed Sam).

[kag523.livejournal.com]

I actually rather enjoy the Sam / Kara attraction. *ducks* But I think the main issue is that we see so LITTLE of what Sam's character has been founded on, and how he gets that way that he ends up being a cut-out of who he could (potential)be, but never is.

Ditto goes for Dee (who I actually loved FAR more than I love Lee in the first season) *ducks again* but who was written into becoming a 'stand by her man' type woman, when I certainly didn't feel she was depicted like that in Season one. In fact, it felt like an affront to all the potential she'd had early on. *end rant*

SO although I realize this ISN'T today's assignment, I'd say that what I needed was some genuine backstory and character building for me to believe that the relationships could have (realistically) been a threat to the Kara / Lee relationship.

Now... if I am forced to answer your question:

Kara jumps back to Caprica and discovers... James "Sawyer" Ford (from Lost, obviously) with ALL the messy backstory that we discover about him along the way. I TOTALLY could have believed that. And actually, I think Katee and Holloway could have had a ROCKING dynamic together.

As for Lee...? He heads over to Cloud 9 to hang with Gianne, but she's busy, so he ends up going to the bar instead where he meets up with a young woman named Buffy Summers. The kickass blonde is CERTAIN there's another reason why cylons keep coming back time and again (almost like they can't be killed) and Lee is intrigued enough to listen to her. (Again, Bamber and SMG. Yes? YES???)

OMG people, fic crossovers are EATING MY BRAIN! GAH!

(http://s931.photobucket.com/albums/ad159/kag523/Gifs/?action=view&current=100-IregretNothingDance.gif)

[winegums.livejournal.com]

Hey, I'm not throwing tomatoes at anyone, I like Sam myself! And I really did enjoy their early pyramid-game chemistry in Resistance/The Farm 'cause they're hot. But the problem you cite is the exact thing that stops me rooting for Sam/Kara later, we never really get an idea of who he is beyond certain cardboard-cutout traits (nice guy, brave since he's in the Resistance, blah blah)- he's basically just Kara Thrace's love interest and that's it.

And even then I can understand why she's attracted to him, but Dee on the other hand.....she's better-developed as a character in her own right but her relationship with Lee isn't and you can't really see what's keeping those two together beyond Doormat 101. In a weird way they're like opposites, really. And I LOVED early Dee too, pity they just made her such a martyr later.

AND Katee+Holloway = brain fireworks for me anyway, but OMG, BAMBER AND SMG. THAT SO NEEDS TO HAPPEN, Ioan Gruffudd (Hornblower!) and SMG being married on Ringer brings it thisclose to happening, right? OMG BUFFY THE CYLON SLAYER. And Lee would be so much better of a love interest for her than that broody ponce Angel. *sniff*

[ninety6tears.livejournal.com]

You touched on pretty much what I wanted to say, that who they were with never bothered me as much as how the characters were treated and left a bit undeveloped. I'm not crazy about Lee/Dee, but it could have been done in a way that I wouldn't have disliked it. I don't ship Kara/Sam but I feel like I almost could have. I'm a multishipping whore, come on, it shouldn't be that hard to get me to like it.

And Sawyer/Starbuck? If I had to pick between Sawyer and Lee I wouldn't know what to do! Also, I only got up to S3 of Lost...I need to get back on that.

[word-vomity.livejournal.com]

YES on all counts! Kara/Sawyer & Lee/Buffy = SO MUCH WIN!

Congrats on having an awesome brain!

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

I luv you for that gif, K. Just sayin'.

Sam annoys me for the sheer fact that he breaks up my OTP, but other than that, I actually like the guy. (He would totally be the most fun to go drinking with.)

Character development was UBER problematic on both counts. Like you said, with Sam, there wuddn't nuthin' thar. And with Dee, it's like they stripped away all her awesomeness in favor of a Tammy Wynnette song. Boo. **throws things**

I guess I just always thought that Kara's DFI (Dead Folks Issues, to the uninitiated) and Lee's omg-she's-my-dead-brother's-ex thing PLUS their respective damaged childhoods were PLENTY reason enough to keep them apart without resorting to sitcom cockblocking antics.

You know?

[kivryn.livejournal.com]

SO much <3 for the gif! Best movie evah!

And OMG SAWYER/KARA. LEE/KARA/SAWYER/KATE QoD (I didn't watch past s2 of Lost but I think that'd be pretty hot!) And then some.... You've got crossover possibilities eating my brain too!!! (I daren't elaborate, my brain is a scary place on a good day!)

[deborah-judge.livejournal.com]

Is this my chance to make my case for Lee/Laura, Kara/Leoben? 'Cause in my head they do work very well with the Kara/Lee ship. That way each of them has another relationship that is about their destiny and what they are becoming, which compliments (and is sometimes in tension with) the history in the Kara/Lee relationship and what they have together.

I could see Laura and Lee having a short, passionate relationship based on the assumption that Laura's going to die in a few months anyway and (Laura would assume) then Lee would be with Kara, who might be in a better head-space for a relationship by then. And then when Laura doesn't die things could've gotten...complicated. They might have to face that their relationship is going to be different than they thought it was.

And Leoben wouldn't know what the word 'monogamy' means if you made him look it up in a dictionary. If Kara felt like she had to choose, or if Lee wanted her to, I think that would just confuse him. He'd probably be like, oh humans and their strange hangups, I'll just wait for her to get over this one like I waited for her to love me. Patiently or not. :)

[winegums.livejournal.com]

I could totally buy Lee/Laura especially in the early seasons, though maybe not if PapAdama also had the hots for her (one love triangle in the Adama family is enough) and I like what you have to say about Kara/Leoben - from the PoV of actually being significant, destiny-wise, it does work.

I mean, in canon Kara/Leoben usually makes me want to RUN AWAY SCREAMING, but I think if they were treated differently they'd make a nice complement to pilots. Ditto Lee/Laura, esp. from the pov of Lee's growing involvement in politics in the final season.

[adamas.livejournal.com]

YES YES YES. Really, is all I can say. Also, I love Kara/Leoben, even as a total Pilots shipper, lol.

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

I don't have time to be thinky today sadly (Kara/Chief? No? Am I the only one who likes that idea? LOL.) but big kudos for this topic. I don't think we've ever discussed this at N_T before, believe it or not! Or if we did, twas ages ago.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

Aww, thanks! *blushes*

Chief/Kara is actually a possibility, frankly almost anyone who's actually spent time with her on board the G makes more of a three-dimensional love interest than Sam.

[word-vomity.livejournal.com]

The main problem with pairing up people in BSG verse is that there are just SO FEW PEOPLE!

What about Lee/Tory? They were both pretty strict and controlled on the outside, but messed up on the in.

Or Kara/Papadama? Possibly simultaneously cringe inducing but also compelling? Or just too weird? Talk about a complicated situation!

I kinda like the idea that instead of a quad, it would've just been a thing where both Lee and Kara were hooking up with the same person (Like Kendra as mentioned above) as a way to be close to each other but not too close. And she could've been the shield between them.

Idk.

[word-vomity.livejournal.com]

Or what about Lee/Kat . . . since I like Lee with girls who are more his foil than his compliment. Him with nice girls = fail! And it could be a good way to get Kara's attention.

Newbie here

[mariacms.livejournal.com]

Feels really weird, trying to board the DPP train after only reading it for so long.
I laugh like a maniac in front of the computer.
I already like all of you crazy fan girls and don't even know you, ok that's crazy.
I feel like a stalker now...moving on.
Back to the issue to be discussed, In other circumstances would have liked Dee she had some great moments and i started caring for Sam after Kara died, as love interests for the pilots they felt like processed algae being forced down my throat.
Helo? Too complicated, already part of a triangle of his own. What if the Major from wherever made an appearance, they have history. I love the idea of Kendra and Laura too.

Re: Newbie here

[winegums.livejournal.com]

Hello, and welcome! The DPPs are always glad to see a new face, and if you're here at all that makes you one of us crazy fangirls too :)

I know Helo has his own complications as a love interest and in a way I'm glad they didn't go there, but at least I could buy it if they did. Most alternative love interests for pilots would prob. need story reworking so there's not too much romantic mess (I REALLY don't want to see Lee and Papadama competing for Laura), but at least there are circumstances in which it could work. And Sam and Dee as Significant Obstacle to Pilots Romance are exactly as you said - processed algae. Bleargh, do not want.

[sugarhaven.livejournal.com]

How about Zak coming back as a cylon?

[winegums.livejournal.com]

Ooooh, whole new kettle of worms! Though it'd be hard to reconcile that with Bill and Lee's memories of Zak as a child not to mention the fact that Bill is Zak's dad since Cylons were never kids.

But yeah, dead Zak is a real complication between them, I imagine living Zak as a Cylon would be even more of one.

Off-topic question

[sugarhaven.livejournal.com]

Sorry for the unrelated question but is it a beer keg next to Kara? They sure as hell could use one on that host stinky planet but they would have to have a brewery somewhere in the fleet.

Re: Off-topic question

[winegums.livejournal.com]

late to seeing this, but it kind of looks like one of those tin drums in which they store oil/water?

I'd definitely want a lot of cold beer if I were down on that crappy planet though.

[(Anonymous)]

I actually would have loved to see Helo with Kara since Athena really annoys me.

[kozulina12.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I thnk that Helo for Kara and Kat for Lee would make the canon much more plausible and interesting. On the other hand I am gald that Kara has never been romantically involved with Helo. It made their own dynamics with Helo even more interesting. Still belive that her scenes with Helo in her apartment on Caprica belong to the best of BSG. Just two old friends who trust each other and love each other in their own way which has nothing in common with sex or smth like that.
Plus it was easy for me as ashipper to choose btw Lee and Sam. Not sure it would be as easy to choose btw Helo and Lee.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

Oh I loved their friendship too, and am glad the show kept it platonic. And I totally agree that it is easy for us as shippers to choose between Lee and Sam.

But the problem is that the show doesn't present it that way - Sam gets so little to do besides be Kara's love interest that it's hard to get any sense of who he is independent of Kara, and it becomes ridiculous to think of them as an OTP (not quite as ridiculous as Lee's Dead Blonde Girlfriend in Black Market, but then that'd be difficult). I think it'd have gone down better if she'd been with more or less anyone else on Galactica, idk even Gaeta or Chief or even (if we want to get twisted) Leoben. Sam's too much of a cardboard cutout to make it work.