No Takebacks

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I think Helo is good for pilots in fic, but as far as canon goes, he's pretty much out of the loop. In fact, I see very few people who would have made much of a difference. BSG isn't exactly the place for heart-to-hearts and as much as I love other characters pushing pilots in fic, I am just not sure how it would have worked in canon.

I think pilots knew what they wanted, and even with someone else pushing them, their own junk got in the way too much. Maybe if they'd been locked in a room or something? Hee!

I do enjoy fics where everyone in canon knows about how they feel about each other and they're shocked and thrilled to find out.

*goes to live in fic worlds forever*

Edited Date: 2011-09-12 12:58 pm (UTC)

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adamas.livejournal.com

Yes! I'd love to read a fic where say Helo and Athena get sick of the will-they-won't-they and lock the pilots in a closet to deal with their issues on a slow day on the ship!

As far as canon goes, I guess I always just sort of figured everyone knew how they felt, if a little even. Dee, Sam, Baltar... there had to have been others, right?

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It seemed so obvious! (Says my extreme shipper brain that watches everything through kara/lee colored glasses.) Sadly, Dee and Sam totally knew! I wish it had been set up that neither of them were willing to settle with second best. *sigh* They all deserved more than that stupid QoD!

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adamas.livejournal.com

Yes! Maybe it's our shipper minds playing with us, but I'd never want it any other way!

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callmeonetrack.livejournal.com

I'd love to read a fic where say Helo and Athena get sick of the will-they-won't-they and lock the pilots in a closet to deal with their issues on a slow day on the ship!

There is exactly a fic like that! If I remember correctly Helo and Sharon make a joke about getting popcorn. Hee. I can't find it now, but I did find this one instead where Hot Dog and Kat conspire to throw them together: http://hackaddict.livejournal.com/71460.html

And here's a really quick little one where Chief locks them up together: http://plumunited.livejournal.com/6337.html

Edited Date: 2011-09-12 03:08 pm (UTC)

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callmeonetrack.livejournal.com

I don't think many people picked up on it or were pulling for them in canon. Helo was definitely a Kara/Sam shipper in my mind, and no one really got to see Kara and Lee "together" until they were already married to other people and cheating. Which probably didn't put them in anyone's good graces.

Oh actually, I always thought maybe Laura was a K/L shipper! She picked up on Lee's feelings in You Can't Go Home Again, watched with a fond smile as they danced on Colonial Day and chatted by the campfire on Kobol, and saw Lee kiss her on the Astral Queen. Then she had the dream in the hub of Kara turning to Lee for comfort at her bedside. Yeah, I think she definitely shipped them.

In fanon, of course, EVERYONE SHIPS K/L. Except Sam and Leoben. And Dee. And maybe Gaeta. And Bill. hee. Okay, not everyone. Helo, Zak, Laura and Sharon often tend to ship them in my fic though.

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kag523.livejournal.com

(http://s931.photobucket.com/albums/ad159/kag523/?action=view&current=LeeZakKara.png)

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No, this was totally the photo. They just used the wrong prop and scripts and...

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kag523.livejournal.com

*high fives* That's my theory at least. ;P

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aurora-0811.livejournal.com

*sigh* if only.

But, ya know...minus all the dead boyfriend stuff then. ;)

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In canon, I think Lee and Kara worked very hard to keep their feeling for each other secret from everyone, including frequently themselves. If anyone figured it out and might have really rooted for them as a couple it was Laura. And Dee knew that Lee at least had feelings for Kara before they married. I'm kind of torn when it comes to the other pilots and the deck crew. The tension and flirtation seems really obvious to the audience, but I don't think the idea that everyone on the flight deck was in on a pool or would have locked Starbuck and Apollo in a closet works outside of fanon.

Helo is an interesting case though. It's hard to imagine Kara mentioning Lee at all before the attacks, and Helo's interactions with Lee in the mini wouldn't have put Lee in a great light so while Helo shipping Kara and Sam in canon is somehow disappointing, it's also totally believable. Sam is who Helo sees Kara with and happy with first. I definitely put Helo in the group of people who didn't have any idea until the dance and the affair, which I can't see Helo being ok with at all.

But now I'm kind of musing on what would have happened if Kara had talked to Helo instead of Tigh the morning after on New Caprica. Hmm.

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No, no dead boyfriends. Zak was, in fact, very supportive and Kara and Lee being happy because they were so cute and really understood each other being a bit frakked up. :D

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kag523.livejournal.com

But, ya know...minus all the dead boyfriend stuff then. ;)

OF COURSE!!!

Besides, I have faith in Apollo. He'd TOTALLY pull out of whatever it was. Zak on the other hand... *shudders*

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koolaidmom11.livejournal.com

It's this one: http://katiebugs18.livejournal.com/7294.html

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adamas.livejournal.com

I can't wait to read all of these ♥

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callmeonetrack.livejournal.com

Yay, I knew the fangirl network would come through. (Says she who never bookmarks anything.)

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winegums.livejournal.com

Considering how both pilots were into suppressing/denying their feelings, I don't think they really talked to anyone about it. The only ones who seemed to pick up a clue were Baltar (and Head Six with him) and it'd be impossible not to pick up considering what happened :)

Helo never got to see Lee and Kara together at all until he was back on Galactica, and he'd seen Kara get all schmoopy over Sam by then. And I used to wonder about Sharon, I'll need to re-watch but I think either Scar or UB gave me the impression that she did pick up something off Boomer's memories. As for the others, Bill was totally oblivious that they were anything to each other besides best friends/surrogate siblings (how else to explain the UB morning after, then?) and Tigh pretty much told Kara not to go for it. Ditto with Chief and Lee at Joe's Bar in TAB.

I think Laura might have been a very quiet pilots shipper, she saw them kiss on the Astral Queen and had a near-deathbed dream in which Kara turned to Lee for comfort - I think she noticed, and considering she was dying she might have advised them to seize the day and just go for it. She def. noticed something was up :). The only other canon person who I think might have been supportive of K/L was Romo, but I agree he'd probably bury it under snark.

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amaliak.livejournal.com

Ironically, the only person in canon to tell Kara and Lee to get together were Sam and Dee.
And Sam really meant it.

Oh, show.

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winegums.livejournal.com

*grumbles* it's really like the universe was out to screw them from the word go.

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koolaidmom11.livejournal.com

its funny...i saw that comment earlier and i was randomly looking at something and ran across that story. I knew the one you were talking about but had NO IDEA what it was called.

Finally i knew something on this site!

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I think there were lots of people who knew or at least suspected.

Baltar was probably the first one to find out in the most awkward way possible. He was just too self-centered to think of pushing them together (or apart), though. He probably only thought about them if it affected him in some way.

Laura had to know. In the first season she seemed like the pushing, teasing type, at least with Billy, about Dee. Despite her heavy responsibilities, she still had a lighter side to her personality. We didn't see that later on. She knew there was a connection because of the search mission when Kara crashed on the moon. If at that time she might have thought it was about friendship/family , after the kiss on the Astral Queen, there's no way she would still think that. That was not the way friends kiss, no matter how happy they are to see each other again. Although she might have rooted for them then, I don't think she was ever that close to any of them to feel comfortable talking about it. And later on, she and Lee grew apart, so...

That means Zarek also knew. He had much more important things on his mind, like planning murders and coups, though. He would only do something about it (in favor or against it) if it served some personal purpose.

Dee knew, of course. She said so more than once. How did she learn, though? She didn't spend that much time with the pilots since she worked in CIC. So, whatever she saw, she saw it when they were all off duty or maybe because of their banter when flying? Anyway, neither of them talked about it with her, so there was something in their behavior that gave it away. I just don't think she was the only one to pick it up, even if she was paying more attention than others. I think if she never felt she had a chance of getting Lee for herself, she might have pushed him in the right direction. I wish she had done it anyway.

If Dee was able to notice, how could the deck crew and the other pilots not? I mean, at least their fight after Baltar was pretty loud and obvious. I somehow think Lee and Kara were kind of intimidating in their own way for anybody to try to interfere one way or another, even if anyone ever felt like it, which I'm not sure they did.

Helo, to me, is the most intriguing. We all get the feeling he and Kara were close friends. He seemed to root for Kara and Sam. Was it because he didn't know about Lee or because he thought Sam was better for her? I get it that when he came back to Galactica he didn't know about Lee and he had only seen Kara happy with Sam? But is it that friendly to encourage your friend to pine away for someone who you've met for about a week or so and is most likely dead? Is it healthy to encourage it? The way Kara was behaving before Sam was rescued, the fact he was supposedly on her mind didn't seem to be increasing her will to live but rather sending her into depression and destructive behaviour. Besides, if people who were not that close to Kara noticed there was something between her and Lee, what kind of good friend wouldn't? We often say that Lee didn't seem to have any real friends aboard Galactica (and I mostly agree with that). But I wonder if, despite all her outgoing attitude, Kara wasn't just as lonely.

It surprised me a great deal that Tigh was the only person Kara talked to about Lee. Yes, he just happened to be there, but up to that point there was no love lost between them. But what surprised more was his actual advice to her. It seemed like a typical "do as I say, not as I do" situation.

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But now I'm kind of musing on what would have happened if Kara had talked to Helo instead of Tigh the morning after on New Caprica. Hmm.

I would have loved to see that.

Maybe that's fic that's waiting to be written? *nudges* ;)

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I also always got the sense that people would probably suspect. It's just not really shown. I mean how many times do we see people talking about A/R? No one...and their romance was clearly canon. I don't think what we see in canon is really any reflection of what people might have been aware of. K/L were close and, for good or for bad, had a lot of "encounters" - if that was going on in my work place, I'd certainly expect something was happening.

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This may be completely off topic, but there's something about the locker picture that bugs me. They changed it after the mini. The original one was this.

Although, they are pretty much the same. Is it just me, or does Lee's expression seem much grimmer in the second version? Is it a sign that the writers hadn't meant any hidden/shipper subtext in the mini, but later changed their minds? *shrugs*

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The whole shot is re-done. Kara's hair is different, so I am wondering if Jamie posed Lee differently because of the content of their interactions on the show? It's fascinating to consider.

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I just have to figure out how Kara and Helo would run into each other since Helo wasn't planetside for the Founders Day celbration.

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i think they recast zak...? or maybe i'm demonstrating that i'm not as well-versed in pilots as i feel after obsessing for 4 months! but that dude totally looks different than the zak from 'act of contrition'/'daybreak'

oh, hello :) i'm de-lurking after 4 months of quietly eating up all things k/l on no-takebacks...

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Aww! HELLO THERE AND WELCOME!

Yes, they re-cast Zak after the mini when the actor who'd posed for that photograph was not available or not cast or whatnot when they filmed Act of Contrition.

Fascinating stuff and so happy to have another member of our K/L community! *HUGS OF WELCOME*

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i should have checked imdb first. doh. it says tobias mehler played him in both episodes....

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ah! ok :) except now i'm confused because of imdb thing...?

thank you for the welcome! i'm looking forward to the rewatches...and so happy no-takebacks exists :)

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Is always fine to ask questions here. Usually faster and much better for lazies like me! ;)

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I use battlestarwiki (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Main_Page), although it is often fail, only less often, IMO.

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yay!

yes, this picture thing is weird. although i like kara's hair in the post-mini picture...

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lizziec

Hello! Welcome aboard! :D The more shippers the better \o/ ♥

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Welcome. Yes, they changed the actor. I think the second one is much better looking, by the way, but that's beside the point. ;)

What bugs me is that the new picture of Kara and Zac is not that different from the original. But Lee IS different. Whereas in the original one he seemed happier and more relaxed (like they had all been friends having a good time), in the second version he looks uncomfortable and rigid - which makes sense if he was secretly pining for his brother's girl. Why did they make that change?

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i think i agree...i like that fanon has validated both pictures though.

i'm completely new to the whole lj thing. while i've read fic in other fandom, i only bothered creating an lj account because of pilots! i have to find some hot lee icons. yums, lee.

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And have you been visiting

leeadama_daily? *nods* And also,

iconic_lee? The place to be for Lee! (Iconic_Lee is a great place to snag Lee icons, as are any floating around - just be sure to credit the iconmaker.)

And go here for lots of other things pilots and Lee and Kara related: Shipping Essentials (http://no-takebacks.livejournal.com/tag/shipping%20essentials). Dig through the comments for all the goodies!

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ooooh! i *have* been to leeadama_daily...but not to iconic_lee. and i have no idea how to link to those comms in these comments...i'll check it out!

so much to learn. so is that the basic etiquette for icons? i just have to credit who made them? no stealing out of turn, i'm assuming :)

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