DPP: On the next season of Battlestar Galactica...

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

 Morning, shippers! So our game of Clue from yesterday is still going strong: 18 stories so far and some new prompts posted overnight. I've also added an optional twist for an extra challenge into the rules for today! Feel free to check it out and keep writing!

Now for today...I thought we could stroll down speculation lane for a bit...

A lot of folks lamented the rushed way the producers tied things up in the final season. What if our crew hadn't found Earth at the end of Season Four? What if Daybreak parts one and two never happened? If you were to end Season 4 with Ellen's info dump in Deadlocked (or was it No Exit?), before Hera went missing, where would you take the story in a Season Five? Let's imagine that cylon goo holding the ship together would have given them more time, where do you think the show could have progressed? What could have been gained with more time? What might have happened in Kara and Lee's relationship?

Alternatively, perhaps you're a canon purist. The only way you can imagine a Season Five is if it picks up right where the show left off...but there's a catch. All the players are still contracted to appear in S5, even ones who died (or poofed) in S4. Where do you take the story? Is it just endless versions of Macbeth--Lee and Bill being haunted by ghosts and talking to themselves out loud as they ramble around Earth? Can you make a story out of it? Can you make a love story for Lee and Kara (Hey, it worked for Ghost?)

Speculate to your heart's content! Or rant at the injustice of what we got! Or post an ode to K/L? Use this space as you see fit!

Comments

[lizziec]

I think I would finish S4 even earlier actually, all the way back at Revelations when they find nuked earth. That way Galactica wouldn't be falling apart and they would have the time they needed to find Second Earth.

Hera Agathon wouldn't go missing again and without the finality of finding her body there would be a way to handwave Kara's survival - she's not an angel, or a pigeon or a herald or whatever. It turns out that she was captured by a Leoben in the heavy raider she was following and it's all an elaborate set up or something.

That way she and Lee can come to a point where they either both die together in battle (not a brilliant solution, but better than the *poof*) or get to live together after the end of BSG on a world where they haven't got rid of all their technology.

I might come back later with more of a rant than odd speculation :)

[deborah-judge.livejournal.com]

The only way you can imagine a Season Five is if it picks up right where the show left off...but there's a catch. All the players are still contracted to appear in S5, even ones who died (or poofed) in S4.

It's the story of the formation of the Greek/Roman Pantheon, which it turns out our protagonists are all turning into, they are this cycle's version of the Lords of Kobol. And how democratic will it be? Or will there be one High God over all? (And if so, who will it be?) And what about the monotheists who reject this system altogether?

Pilotshipping would be very important in this story, as atheist-leaning Lord Apollo is going to have a *ton* of Issues with his new role, and in the end he'll accept it partly out of love. I mean, the other option would be to die a mortal death and go to that nice place beyond the river, but then he'd never see Kara again, so. Although it would also be partly out of his democratic ideals and his not wanting to see a dictatorship in Heaven. He'd alternate between doing nature-god stuff with Kara and being a thorn in Zeus' celestial side. Kara meanwhile might very well be the High God (or Lady Gaia) herself, what with the Special Destiny and all.

I keep writing pieces of this...If it had actually been on the show, it would've turned into crack so fast. ;)

[eternal-nomad1.livejournal.com]

I couldn't make a better story than this. It's my personal canon and I am sticking to it.

http://mintenergy.livejournal.com/8220.html

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

Well technically she's already dead, so... would she die again? Maybe!

But yeah, I would not want to handwave Kara's whole existence either.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

Post-poof, I can't really see a way for Kara to actually make her way into the story unless it's as some kind of Macbeth-y head character to Lee, or have yet another unexplained return courtesy of whatever gods sent her back the first time. I mean, they sent her back over two thousand years and god knows what distance from the explosion to prenuclear!Earth mk. I, and if The Force or whatever wants to mess around again, surely it can?

Though if I were to take a swerve from canon, I'd take trappermcintyre's route and end canon at Revelations (which could have been the original series finale because of the writers' strike), turn up some other explanation for Kara's return - whether it's that she ejected and got captured by the Cylons, or that she and her Viper were cloned from the ovary harvested in the farm (the latter might work if we want her to find her dead body) and that's how she's back. That avoids the Galactica-falling-apart plot point so they don't have to start scrabbling for the nearest habitable rock, and I guess it also saves the necessity of Hera's nth kidnapping.

[lizziec]

To tell you the truth, I'm still struggling with dead!Kara in Maelstrom and *poof*!Kara in Daybreak. Cos I first watched BSG in February this year I feel like I'm not nearly as far down the road to acceptance as some of you, so if we're talking about changing the end I would absolutely find some way to explain her still being alive so she can't *poof* (and blink out of existence - I found that so unsatisfying). Dying (yes, probably again) would at least be a way around that.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

I must say, I'm not a huge fan of the idea of a continuation, though - heartbreaking as it was and much as I love some of the post-finale fics, Daybreak Part 2 is, in my head, THE end of the story and the end of the pilots we've known and loved. I mean, I want them to be happy, but in a way happy love stories are never as compelling as the sad ones.

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

Ah the Greek pantheon, nice! (And I'm tickled that you came over to play with us!)

Hee, am now imagining a Season 5 where they all end up wandering around in togas in the high grass with laurel wreaths on their heads.

Togas v. towels...hmmm. ;)

[winegums.livejournal.com]

At least dying - properly, and finally - would be definite. Not so vague as poofing. I guess on one hand I'm a little bit zen with the non-ending despite having finally watched Daybreak Part 1 and 2 just three months ago (it's enough for me that she looks like she REALLY doesn't want to poof), but I would have liked to see pilots' story resolved too.

[lizziec]

That avoids the Galactica-falling-apart plot point so they don't have to start scrabbling for the nearest habitable rock

It felt towards the end like they were desperately scrambling for a way to end the series on a planet and I think that came through in the falling apart Galactica storyline. The desperation of the colonists to find a habitable rock feels like a parallel to the writers trying to tie up all the loose ends.

I guess it also saves the necessity of Hera's nth kidnapping.

It was getting rather old by the end of the series.

This is quick and dirty and nowhere near as amazing as most of the image jobs people do here, but I think it illustrates what I wanted to happen by the end.

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

I had an idea in the car, let's see if I can remember it.

I think mainly I would not handwave Kara's existence and that would be the central mystery, along with the quest to find Earth in S5.

I'd end S4 on Sam in the coma, then waking up and saying "I REMEMBER EVERYTHING." and that's the cliffhanger to bring you into S5

Then in S5, it'd open with him giving the cylon backstory and hinting at another secret, Kara's destiny is not done. (Maybe this hews a little too close to the hybrid prophecies--but hey, that thread was pretty well dropped anyway, wasn't it?)

Then I want Lee and Kara together, actively sleuthing, and trying to figure out what it all means--who she is, how she came back, and how EXACTLY she's supposed to lead them to Earth. All the vagueness we got in S4 was so unsatisfying.

I'd have their search for answers take them to the basestar where they could good cop/bad cop Leoben (and Lee could have a scene alone with him where he kicks the shit out of him for messing with Kara-- "AND THAT'S FOR NEW CAPRICA!! THAT'S FOR EVERY NOODLE I EVER SLURPED WHEN WE DIDN'T KNOW WHERE SHE WAS, YOU MOTHERFRAKKER! I GAINED FIFTY POUNDS BECAUSE OF YOU! IN A WEEK!") Hee.

Ok diversion for crack aside, Lee could have a very compelling side story here about getting to know/work with the cylons, while still not forgetting they nuked his race. But...just when you think he's making progress accepting them...they discover the midseason cliffhanger bombshell--THERE WEREN'T ONLY TWELVE MODELS--KARA'S A CYLON (or Half Cylon).

For the second half of the season, they wonder how this can be, delve into her back story, what it means for Hera, nto being the first, and with all the thorny questions it raises for how Lee feels about her, how Bill feels abut her, how this fucks with Laura's grand plan/destiny/chosen one status. You know, all that good important interesting stuff they shoe-horned into an episode and a half at the start of 4 to go off and look at the stars in a garbage truck.

Lee would tell Kara he believes her and loves her, but privately he would have some moments/issues/doubts and he'd struggle. Then finally at midseason they would have a breakthrough of some sort, he'd be fully onboard and the humans would find out...
THEY'RE ALL CYLONS.

I truly thought when they found burned Earth and those cylon bones/remains, that the show was trying to say that Humans and cylons were really one and the same. That their physiological differences didn't exist (although how Sharon was able to jack into the system would have to be explained.) And the remainder of S5 could be given over to exploration of how they could learn to accept each other. Mutiny that breaks out when there are people who can't accept it. And finally they achieve a tenuous peace between most of them, that enables them to find Earth.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

That was too funny. But I'm a dunderhead and need to ask what the thing with all the brightly coloured straps is - I'm not too familiar with baby stuff. Is it to keep Hera strapped to Helo at all times, or a placeholder for the sign?

[winegums.livejournal.com]

I'd have their search for answers take them to the basestar where they could good cop/bad cop Leoben (and Lee could have a scene alone with him where he kicks the shit out of him for messing with Kara-- "AND THAT'S FOR NEW CAPRICA!! THAT'S FOR EVERY NOODLE I EVER SLURPED WHEN WE DIDN'T KNOW WHERE SHE WAS, YOU MOTHERFRAKKER! I GAINED FIFTY POUNDS BECAUSE OF YOU! IN A WEEK!")

OH MY GODS THIS WOULD BE SUCH AWESOME CRACK. I'm now picturing Lee tying up Leoben....with noodles. I mean, Leoben was Kara's demon for the most part and hers to deal with, but I would have liked to see how he and Lee acted around each other if they were ever in a confrontation.

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

Lol. Hilarious image. ;)

[winegums.livejournal.com]

Should clarify - up there, I meant what I pictured was Lee using noodles to tie up Leoben.

[lizziec]

Baby Reins! You attach them to the child and they have a handle you can hold on to so the child can't wander off! :D Helo could also tie them around furniture when busy so she doesn't just wander out of the door again :D

[winegums.livejournal.com]

They do sound like a good idea, all things considered :)

[winegums.livejournal.com]

No contest, ever - towels should ALWAYS win (skimpier).

[deborah-judge.livejournal.com]

I don't think Ron Moore et al would've been able to pull it off without turning it into WTF crack, unfortunately, but at least it might've been *fun* WTF crack.

And thank you! I'm so glad for the welcome.

[deborah-judge.livejournal.com]

I'm now picturing Lee tying up Leoben....with noodles.

I'm not a huge fan of Lee/Leoben confrontations but I think I'd watch that one.

[deborah-judge.livejournal.com]

Then in S5, it'd open with him giving the cylon backstory and hinting at another secret, Kara's destiny is not done.

I really like the idea of visionary Sam. And I do think Kara's destiny wasn't done, nothing that happened in canon explained why she needed to die and come back and I like the thought that it would be explained in season 5.

he'd be fully onboard and the humans would find out...
THEY'RE ALL CYLONS.

I want to see that show!

[lizziec]

I'm actually really liking this whole idea, but especially spending time exploring Kara's nature to end with the bombshell they are all Cylons. That would just have been an amazing (and brave) twist *and* it would link back to earlier stuff - the Cylons didn't go off on their own after Kobol, the Earth!Cylons just got separated from the rest of the 12 colonies (cos really, why would the Earth!Cylons place beacons want to be able to see their brothers (the constellations) if there had been a schism that had broken down ties to the point of them completely separating from the rest of the colonies.

Argh, explaining badly again. I have so many thoughts about this and they're all coming out in a jumble...

[lizziec]

Oh oh oh! I am also loving how you're keeping some of the most interesting bits of S4 and twisting them only slightly to suit your purposes. And giving them the time that some of those concepts never really got in what actually played out.

[lizziec]

At least dying - properly, and finally - would be definite. Not so vague as poofing.

Yeah, this sums up nicely why I would prefer actual proper bleeding-all-over-the-floor death to *poof*.

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

Lol, it would be a far more Pilots!centered show, but I can't say any of the other plotlines really pleased or interested me much in 4.0/4.5.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

HOW I WOULD HAVE LOVED THIS TWIST. Like, seriously loved it. If they could somehow handwave the different "types" of Cylons, maybe, it would have been such a stunning revelation and a great way to move towards resolving the conflict between the two races. And you make 100% sense, more than the show's Cylons did anyway.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

lol at your icon...I like! Kinda pleased to think I might've caused it :)

[lizziec]

I don't think you'd even have to handwave it cos from the nuked earth flashbacks it looked like if cylons have sex with cylons they create different cylons. The only reason that the other cylons were all the same is because they were created that way and couldn't reproduce :D

[lizziec]

Honestly, I wouldn't have a problem with that. Besides, the showrunners created the pilots centric thing themselves (at least with Kara). If they didn't want to spend time dealing with Kara's nature they shouldn't have killed her off for the shock value.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

Actually, now that you mention it, that's the solution! So they'd still be two civilisations but one race, it would have been gorgeous really.

[pressdbtwnpages.livejournal.com]

I LOVE this version of events.

One of the many continuity flaws, but one that really REALLY bothers me, is the concept/random introduction of the Final Five. Ugh. The Cylons could have been done SO much better.

And I really want Kara to be one.

[sammy567.livejournal.com]

I always felt that after they'd found real Earth, aka nuked Earth, they could drop all things mystic. Because really? Music notes? That's all they needed in the end to find Earth? Wait for Hera to grow up and draw music notes and enter them into the FTL?

Like Lee said, they weren't tied down by Pythia and all of those prophecies. Peace out Pythia. They should be able to go wherever they want, without magical music notes. I wouldn't have minded them wandering space inevitably, which probably means I wasn't very impressed with the Earth they ended up on.

The larger story line would still be, finding a habitable planet and running from the Cavils. Mini arcs could be finding (and rejecting) planets, the fleet splitting up for periods of time to hunt for resources, the mutiny, Cylon rebels showing their loyalty (perhaps thwarting a big attack by Cavil), and explaining Kara's disappearance.

Since Kara's ship blew up, I'd be shocked to see her cockpit make it all the way through space to crash land on nuked earth so intact, which makes me think the whole thing is ridiculous. So, in Season 5 Kara's identity would still be a mystery. She's not an angel, since I'm dropping all things mystic.

I also think they should've just headed back to Kobol. Was there anything wrong with that planet other than "not Earth"?

[apollosspear.livejournal.com]

i am admittedly a hopeless romantic and i have to disagree with you on "happy love stories are never as compelling as the sad ones," i find them infinitely more satisfying, personally. one example of this is "The Princess Bride" how much would a sad ending have changed one of the greatest movies of all time?

I hate sad endings to romantic relationships, they poison the joy i get out of compelling stories, Romeo and Juliet is just one such example.

But the most important example for me is how Kara and Lee's relationship ended. to this day i cannot watch an episode of BSG. even early seasons. S4-4.5 put the nail in the coffin at least for the time being. as much as i love BSG it hurts my heart to watch it. i prayed and hoped every week for SOME form of happy ending and we got POOF, character assassination, a pigeon, and a man broken and alone in a field.

i hate you rdm.

[apollosspear.livejournal.com]

p.s. sorry for the rant, and i totally respect you opinion winegums. and i would make a happy K/L ending, maybe with babies.

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

I also think they should've just headed back to Kobol. Was there anything wrong with that planet other than "not Earth"?

I have wondered this a million frakking times. Once they made the stupid alliance, why not just go back to Kobol? That planet was beautiful and had the handy Temple of Athena. :D

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

At least dying - properly, and finally - would be definite. Not so vague as poofing. this sounds reasonable.

and at least for me it would have been more reasonable if she would have poofed after entering the coordinates on the ftl drive. ok, i know i'm strange but that would have been better for me.

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

Togas v. towels...hmmm. ;)

like there is a contest or something there....

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

i like this. this should be properly written.

and btw, the whole Lee/Leoben made me laugh like a crazy person.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

I respect your opinion too, but I guess I've always liked sad/unfulfilled/ love stories and found them more memorable than the upbeat kind - I guess any Joss Whedon/occasional jmovie fan has to learn to do that.


Personally, even though Daybreak broke my heart and sapped my will to live for weeks (Kara deserved better as a character than the poof), I guess for me, what makes the hurt slightly better is the fact that at the very end, she wants to be with him - as implied by the look on her face and Katee in a later interview. I guess I feel a bit like Lee at the end - heartbroken, but zen about it on some level.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

I think Kobol/New Caprica/the Colonies were probably out as an option because of that brutal star cluster they had to go through in The Passage - I think the algae planet was the only food source they found on the way, and it would've been fried by that star system going supernova.