DPP: Casting Pilots, Recasting Pilots

[winegums.livejournal.com]

The following post was a hard one to contemplate, and even harder to write.

I'd be willing to bet that to most members of this comm, the image that comes to mind when anyone says or thinks the word 'pilots' is of these two people, and these are the faces of the pilots we know and love and root for:
 

But, as we all know, pilots (in a very different avatar) were once played by these two people. 

And, if it hadn't been for an inspired casting decision that led to a then-22-year-old actress being cast as a woman who, as per the original miniseries script, was initially supposed to be in her 30s, and another inspired casting decision that led to a Brit being cast in a role that needed an American accent,  pilots, as we know and love them, could well have ended up with the faces of  - hold your breath here - these two people:

 

or even these two people, below (yeah, one of them is the same person as the above pic but bear with me):

(and it was very much a possibility, considering the fact that Grace Park was one of the final two candidates for the role of Starbuck - the other, of course, being Katee Sackhoff  - and Michael Trucco and Aaron Douglas were among the final handful of candidates to play Apollo before losing out to Jamie Bamber)


What I want to know, shipper nation, is whether you can ever contemplate the idea of Lee and Kara being played by anyone other than Jamie and Katee.  Considering how much of themselves they brought to their portrayals of Lee and Kara  and how much of our pilots love is based on the fact that the actors have chemistry enough to scorch continents, can you ever see pilots being played by anyone else? How do you think they might have been different if Jamie and Katee hadn't got their roles? Or does the idea just make you want to curl up into a ball and whimper?

Another  (slightly cracky) hypothetical situation I'd like to ask about is: let's say, Ron Moore - or someone to whom he sells the rights, if we hate Ron too much - thinks that he really screwed up with BSG, and screwed up with pilots especially. He decides to create a fixit show, which starts off with the revelation that Kara didn't really poof, she was just hiding in the grass, and the rest of the show will be all about pilots on Earth, with no bad marriages, no more plot hole deaths and no more pigeons. BUT pilots mk. II won't be played by  Bamber/Sackhoff, and will have to be recast. Would you watch that show, or are pilots with the faces of anyone but Jamie and Katee just too impossible/painful to contemplate?

My OTP are hot space pilots, always. But, would they still be our OTP if they didn't look like the pilots we fell for? The floor is yours, people - I want to hear what you have to say, even if it's a resounding "NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!"

Comments

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

Another actor up for the role of Apollo was Ben Browder, whom I knew nothing about until I watched Farscape *swoon*. As I was watching Farscape, I kept trying to imagine what Ben would have brought to the role of Apollo that was different than Jamie. First, I got a headache and my fangirl heart broke. After a quick glance at the bamceps, I recovered and re-considered.

Ben is taller and that would have frakked with the PERFECT fit of J/K.

Ben is less handsome, although still hot. And Jamie's smile is much more attractive.

And the jaw. And Jamie's eyes... *stops now*

Ben's is physique is nowhere as stunning as JB.

Ben has a bit more of a good 'ol boy vibe (at least in Farscape) and I'm not sure that would have played well against EJO's intensity, although could have been kind of fun with Katee's playfulness. That said, their intensity might have evaporated, replaced by a sibling-type vibe closer to kara/helo.

Ben and Jamie both bring the same lovely empathetic expressions and sincerity that I enjoy so much.

I also have a hard time picturing Ben as a politico - sadly, and no offense intended, he just doesn't ooze the intelligence and thoughtfulness that Jamie brings.

I can't say much about the chemistry, bc I'd just have to see it. (But glad I didn't) :):)

JAMIE AND KATEE FOREVER AND SOMEONE WRITE ME SOME RPF PLEASE!!! Gah! TV onfire!

[howlinchickhowl.livejournal.com]

Can I just say how much I honestly adore you right now? Because I do.

As I was watching Farscape, I kept trying to imagine what Ben would have brought to the role of Apollo that was different than Jamie. First, I got a headache and my fangirl heart broke. After a quick glance at the bamceps, I recovered and re-considered.

Ben is taller and that would have frakked with the PERFECT fit of J/K.

Ben is less handsome, although still hot. And Jamie's smile is much more attractive.

And the jaw. And Jamie's eyes... *stops now*

Ben's is physique is nowhere as stunning as JB.


This is fangirl critique at its absolute best and purest, just never change :D

♥

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

all the way with you on Ben. I finally managed to start Farscape (I'm somewhere at the end of S2 beginning of S3) but I keep trying to imagine him as Lee. ok, i have to admit that i did the same thing when i saw him in SG1.

about the political side of Lee I always felt (i might just be in my strange mind) that at least partly that was JB's input. not the idea in it self, but a lot of what went on during that time.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

I love the fact that you actually ran a point-by-point analysis, seriously considered the possibility.......and Jamie still came up tops. *grins*

JAMIE AND KATEE FOREVER too!!!

[howlinchickhowl.livejournal.com]

Aaron Douglas playing Apollo? No. I'm sorry, but no. Grace and Trucco I could maybe have gotten behind, though I am almost certain I wouldn't love pilots half so much, and probably definitely wouldn't be here, as I didn't start off shipping pilots so much as just wanting to see Katee and Jamie on screen together ALL THE TIME, which eventually LED to shipping pilots, obvs, and I just don't feel that way about Grace, and I don't know that she really has the depth to do what Katee did with it.

But Aaron Douglas as Apollo? I mean, don't get me wrong, I love the chief, and I love Aaron at conventions and in interviews and stuff, but he is in so many ways NOT what that role needed to be. Just No.

NO.

And also, No.

I'm tempted to say no one else should ever play Starbuck and Apollo, but then that's how people felt when Katee was cast and they got all angry so I am reserving judgement. I can't say I wouldn't watch the pilot, but I just think that a giant proportion of what I love about them is tied up with all the tiny little things that Jamie and Katee did that weren't really necessary to the plot, but that made them so much more real, and I don't know how other actors could do that justice.

Or look as pretty.

AARON DOUGLAS?????

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

Just ew, right?? *shudders*

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

But Aaron Douglas as Apollo? I mean, don't get me wrong, I love the chief, me too. i really love the Chief but still..... NO.

idk about Grace ... i;m still pondering on that. probably still no.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

AARON DOUGLAS?????

I know, me neither! But he was actually up for the role at one point (I have similar doubts about Michael Trucco ever pulling off certain aspects of Lee too, even if he is pretty).... And as for comparing Katee to Dirk Benedict, that was a whole different kettle of fish because they changed the entire show so drastically that it was totally different from the original. If Lee Adama and Kara Thrace are ever recast, though, I will try in the interest of fairness to give the new guys a chance but I doubt it'll stick.

I can't say I wouldn't watch the pilot, but I just think that a giant proportion of what I love about them is tied up with all the tiny little things that Jamie and Katee did that weren't really necessary to the plot, but that made them so much more real, and I don't know how other actors could do that justice.

Pretty much my feelings too. Lee and Kara with anyone else's faces (and abs, and arms, and eyes) would just feel so wrong, on so many levels.

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

No. :)

[winegums.livejournal.com]

Not even if they fixed the poof? (my instinctive answer is no, too ;))

[word-vomity.livejournal.com]

Despite my fear of seeming rude, Grace Park playing Kara would've been so terrible. As an actress, she grew as the series did, but in the beginning . . . just not great. Distractingly bad, actually.

Remember that one scene on Caprica when Sharon #2 went to save Helo from the evil #6 out-making (wtf btw) and told him, "Let's move mister!" Yeah, that line to this day makes me cringe and look away in second-hand embarrassment like I do during daytime talk shows.

So in short, that's a negative ghost writer!

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

Agreed! Grace Park does not have the acting chops or the moxie to be Kara Frakking Thrace. Just no. So flat. (Sorry fans!) DNW

[winegums.livejournal.com]

she grew as the series did

Seriously, she did. She was fantastic from S2 onwards and she did an amazing job playing all the different Eights and making each of them distinctive in their own right, but Kara, as a character, is a minefield who could have completely BLOWN in the hands of a lesser actress than Katee (or even a differently capable one).

I'm still grumpy that Katee never got an Emmy nomination for one of the finest performances I've ever seen on film or TV while bloody Jennifer Garner got them THREE TIMES for just pursing her lips and furrowing her brow on Alias, but that is a rant for another day.

[damao2010.livejournal.com]

can ever contemplate the idea of Lee and Kara being played by anyone other than Jamie and Katee

In a word, NO.

(ANd Aron Douglas as Lee? I never knew they had considered it, but, thank God they didn't go with it. As much as I like him, he just didn't have the physique for the part - hee hee. And I don't think he could have pulled off the same kind of intensity as JB. I might be slightly biased about this second part, though. *sight*)

he'll need to recast pilots, BUT pilots mk. II won't be played by Bamber/Sackhoff, and will have to be recast. Would you watch that show, or are pilots with the faces of anyone but Jamie and Katee just too impossible/painful to contemplate?

I would probably resist the idea at first (and for a long while at that). Curiosity would eventually get the better of me and I would watch it. Although it would be really hard for me to see them with other faces, I just love the characters and, just as I do with fanfic, I would see where the stories would take them. I must confess that unless the new guys and/or the new plots sucked big time, I would even go on watching, even if later on , as I remember (obsessed over) an episode, I would forever see Kate and Jamie playing them.

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

I'll start echoing myself approving you very soon. but in just a word... this:


I would probably resist the idea at first (and for a long while at that). Curiosity would eventually get the better of me and I would watch it. Although it would be really hard for me to see them with other faces, I just love the characters and, just as I do with fanfic, I would see where the stories would take them. I must confess that unless the new guys and/or the new plots sucked big time, I would even go on watching, even if later on , as I remember (obsessed over) an episode, I would forever see Kate and Jamie playing them.

YES

[winegums.livejournal.com]

I don't think Aaron would have been the right choice for Lee either, and the same goes for Michael too (I'd have lost interest REALLY fast despite the pretty, there's no way he'd have kept the UST ratcheted up to the levels JB did with Katee, or brought out the complexity and total connection of pilots).

And yeah, Katee and Jamie are my Kara and Lee forever too.

[onlyariana.livejournal.com]

I feel like I read somewhere that one of the other candidates for Apollo was John Barrowman. I can't remember where now. Does anyone know if this is so?

The idea of John Barrowman as Apollo makes my head swim. He can light the screen with a giant alien slug so he and Katee Sackhoff might have caused TVs across the world to spontaneously combust.

[deborah-judge.livejournal.com]

He can light the screen with a giant alien slug so he and Katee Sackhoff might have caused TVs across the world to spontaneously combust.

I'm starting to combust just thinking about it.

But, can you imagine how many sides the Epic Polygon of Doom would have had?

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

Oh, right, John Barrowman. He is so pretty. Alas, I also find him to be a bit, well, weak, as a dramatic actor. He's adorable and charming and incredibly charismatic, but when it comes to the big dramatic scenes, probs not gonna work. He's a perfect Captain Jack Harkness. *swoon*

[winegums.livejournal.com]

Oh, he's perfect as Captain Jack, and so, so prettyyyyyy. But I'm still having trouble picturing him pulling off Lee. But oh, he'd have been nice to look at (though my biased mind still insists Jamie is hotter).

[ninety6tears.livejournal.com]

Barrowan as Apollo is crazy to try to imagine. The only other person I remember hearing was considered was Ben Browder from Farscape and SG.

Since Everyone Else Answered

[winegums.livejournal.com]

Here's my .02: I can't even begin to imagine pilots played by other actors, and even if I'd probably watch that show out of curiosity, there's no way I'd have fallen for them so hard if Lee or Kara had been played by anyone else. I might have watched a Trucco/Park take on pilots out of idle curiosity because they're both so pretty, but they wouldn't have turned me into a shipper (and that's taking into account the fact that there wouldn't have been JB and KS to compare them to). I doubt I'd have been too interested in Aaron as Lee, though - he was brilliant as Chief and Grace did an amazing job once she'd settled into her role (I'm still astounded at how she managed to make Boomer, Athena, Sweet Eight and all the other Eights so distinct from each other) but I don't think they'd have held my interest for too long.

But pilots, in my head, are all the things they became because of the actors playing them - everything, from how their eyefrakking is always near-inevitable because he's only a few inches taller than she is, to the constant invasions of personal space, to the body language that's more telling than even the "big moments" they have with each other and other characters, they basically stamped these characters so strongly with their own personalities that it's really, really hard to picture anyone else in the role.

Yesterday, I wrote a post about how I fell for pilots in the first place - there is no way I'd have got past the snarking stage if the pilots I saw on screen were played by anyone else.

As for my other hypothetical: I'd probably watch the pilot of the fixit, and maybe keep watching if the replacement actors and plot were decent/had the chemistry that makes pilots so perfect. I'm always a little wary of recastings, because BSG is the only exception I can think of to the rule of Remakes Suck. Also, since Ron Moore revamped the show so radically, there's a huge difference between Katee's Starbuck and Dirk Benedict's (quite apart from the gender flip)- it's hard for me to actually picture someone else playing Kara Thrace or Lee Adama, and frankly they'll always have Katee and Jamie's faces in my head.

[ninety6tears.livejournal.com]

I have to agree with above remarks that Grace Park would not have worked as Starbuck - It took her a while to grow into her characters on the show and I can't imagine that she would have had much presence as Kara, so I'm really glad they went with Katee.

While I have a really hard time imagining anyone else playing either pilot, I have to admit I find Jamie just a smidgeon closer to replaceable than Katee, just because Katee owns the character but certain things about Jamie's performance are a little more...subdued? I still have a hard time thinking of anyone else who could play him. I'm tempted to say Jensen Ackles, but maybe I just have a hankering to see him in uniform (He would actually have been a suitable choice for Starbuck if they'd kept the character a guy).

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

I'm tempted to say Jensen Ackles, but maybe I just have a hankering to see him in uniform. and now you left me with the desire to see Jamie and Jensen play together. my laptop would implode, but who cares?

on a more serious note, idk.... he would have pulled it off but it wouldn't be the same *sad sigh*.

you know with what i would actually live with? barely, but still? a swap..... Jensen as Lee and Jamie as Dean. or i might just lost my mind.

[pressdbtwnpages.livejournal.com]

This is really interesting to me, coming from fandoms where actors leave and others replace them in the same role (and then find ways to make the role their own).

I do believe you never forget your first (Doctor, Roger Davis, Elphaba), and often that's the one you'll love best. But could I grow to love Kristen Bell!Starbuck and Joshua Jackson!Apollo or Lucas Till!Starbuck and Miranda Cosgrove!Apollo.

Which isn't to say that I don't love Katee and Jamie to pieces and don't think they did EXCELLENT work on Battlestar.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

The fact that Katee and Jamie were themselves recast from two very different originals was what spurred the question in the first place - and honestly, I think it'd all depend on the new actors' chemistry and (in a reboot) their distinguishing themselves sufficiently from J and K's Lee and Kara - because frankly, those shoes are big ones to fill, and anyone coming after them is always going to be at risk of being seen as a cheap imitation.