DPP: Down Nostalgia Lane....

[winegums.livejournal.com]

Today's DPP is simple enough, and it's also something I've wondered about for a long time in our little fandom: when did you guys realize you'd started shipping pilots? What was the moment that made you fall in love with them and know that this was it for you, that they were your OTP, and there was no going back?

I've always thought that pilots practically hit us around the head with the repression and the romance and EPICNESS right from the miniseries, until the time - a few years ago now - when I found a bit of meta from someone who said that Scar (deep in the second half of S2) was the episode that made her see Lee and Kara's relationship as a romance. Considering that this happened after several episodes and moments that I considered pivotal to pilots - all the UST and eyefrakking, the Colonial Day dressing-up, the Leegasm and post-Baltar-frak angst, and even Lee's welcome-back kiss and inadvertent  "I love you" to Kara in Home, and that's just for starters -  I was more than a little surprised. But I'm still curious to see how long it took each of you to climb aboard the ship, and what brought you there.

In any case, here is my own story of how pilots first won my heart, before they ripped it out of my chest and tore it to tiny little shreds and then put it back, thus ruining me for other fictional couples forever  (partly taken from an old diary, because I actually fangirled them ON PAPER).

Here goes....

1.

Pilots' first meeting, and our first sight of the Bamceps (that last bit is a side note).
My reaction: Oh hey, bratty daddy-issues-having attractive young male lead and bratty loudmouth jock attractive young female lead are friends! Ha ha, I am Genre Savvy and these two are going to have UST/future hookup, I call it now!


2.

Kara's just been told (in not quite so many words) that Lee is dead.
My reaction: oh no, oh no, I think there was already something there from her end....

3.

My reaction: oh my, her face! Poor Kara, no wonder she looks like that, she was secretly in love with him all along...

4.

My reaction: OH MY GODS JFKPISHSPILOVETHEMOMGTHEYREALREADYINLOVEFSKLP!!!!!
(and oh Gods, they're going to spend ages guilting over the dead little brother because they were in love when she was still with him OMGTHISISEPIC and they were in love all along he loves her too and they're just too repressed jfksrlpsolapollolovestarbuckjhssk!!!! and look at how he's holding her hand and they're looking into each other's eyes and they're not kissing, why isn't the ship on fire from UST? squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  kiss already, dammit!!!!!!! squeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!)

5.

My reaction: that is IT. That settles it - she loves him, loves him beyond reason, and I'm in love too. Have to watch the series now. Oh no, I can't go back to watching Alias after this, Sydney and Vaughn seem so whiny and boring, aaagh.....


What about you, shipper nation? What was it that sealed the deal on pilots for you - was it there right from the start, or did you take a while to warm up to them, and what made you sure it was love? Comments, pics, gifs, commentfics - whichever way you choose, tell us about it!

Comments

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

i can't say more right now because you sort of said it for me. except that it was Caleigh and Eric for me but that is beyond the point.

the only thing that i can actually add was the fact that at least for me the whole thing not only Kara;s reaction in the scene with the Chief was a tell-tale. well that might be because i always thought that the Chief for some reason or another knew.

[lizziec]

I think you could always handwave the Chief knowing even if it wasn't in canon. There's the scene in the pilot's ready room where Helo appears to know all about Lee - or at least, isn't surprised at his lukewarm acceptance of his dad's Viper. Helo would probably have told Boomer, Boomer may well have told the chief.

Voila! Logical ;)

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

hmmm... interesting perspective. i like it so i;ll keep it.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

I thought it was likely that Helo knew Lee and Kara were friends, esp. if he and Kara predate her assignment to Galactica - even if they'd never met before, I think Helo knew about Zak. And Kara and Boomer seem to have been friends before the whole Cylon discovery thing, it's not impossible that Helo gossiped a little to his rook pilot.

But I'm still not sure about how much Chief knew, though - he may just have taken his cue from the fact that the first thing Apollo did after landing was go see Starbuck in hack.

[sparklegirl79.livejournal.com]

Chief, especially in the beginning, was very perceptive about his people. Even if he hadn't known something was up between the bratty hotshot pilot he knew and the bratty hotshot pilot he'd just met, then he got a clue-by-four with her reaction to the news that Lee was 'dead'. He probably hadn't had any inkling previously that Lee was important to Kara, but her reaction and the fact that she follows up with a question about the whereabouts of the person most important to him, that he has a sekrit relationship with might have signaled that Lee is her corollary person. Or maybe not. And if this wasn't enough, Chief is the only witness to their inappropriate gigglefit in the middle of 33...

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

And if this wasn't enough, Chief is the only witness to their inappropriate gigglefit in the middle of 33... oh ya.... that look on his face... *says to self: no Ana you can't watch the mini and 33 for the n-tieth time*

[sparklegirl79.livejournal.com]

Sure you can! *enables*

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

actually i can't *makes sad face*. i always manage to go with my rewatch until somewhere after HoG and then there is this think (a different one every time) that makes me pine after the mini and i need to go back and then RL happens and i'm sort of lost.

[lizziec]

This happens to me too, though I tend to get all the way through to RS ptII before I loop back to the beginning :)

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

i should make that episode my new goal

[lizziec]

You should. The first half of S2 has some awesome shippy moments :)

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

i know. and i actually managed a full rewatch last year. but this year i'm trapped in S1. except specific scenes i can't seem to be able to go past that.

[embolalia.livejournal.com]

Every time I see you type HoG I think of Heart of Gold and then get terribly confused because this isn't Firefly :)

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

haha.... sorry for the confusion. If I'm not mixing up things that was a good episode on Firefly.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

Oh no, I was talking about how much he knew before he told her about Lee's apparent death - her reaction is a dead giveaway to anyone, let alone someone as perceptive as Chief.

the bratty hotshot pilot he knew and the bratty hotshot pilot he'd just met

Hee hee, I really like your way of putting it. We often focus on how different pilots are, but I love the fact that they have such unexpected similarities too.

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

I was talking about how much he knew before he told her about Lee's apparent death me too but the rest is still a valid point

[sparklegirl79.livejournal.com]

Ah, I see. I'm not convinced he knew anything before that, no. Kara was fair at acting cool until someone witnesses her doing or saying something that gives her away, then she acts all guilty and gives herself away more.

As for similarities, yeah, they really are. I always liked the 'two sides to the same coin' metaphor. They often take different paths, see situations from different angles, but when they need to, they work in perfect synch, and they end up at the goal together. That's what made them so perfect. Neither of them is whole without the other. They're off-balance.

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

Ah, I see. I'm not convinced he knew anything before that, no. Kara was fair at acting cool until someone witnesses her doing or saying something that gives her away, then she acts all guilty and gives herself away more.
well yes, but he tells her about LEE, not about Colonial One, the new president, the rest of the Fleet.... just Lee.

[sparklegirl79.livejournal.com]

Hm. Fair point. *narrows eyes, thinking* And I just re-watched recently, too... Maybe he did know something about their friendship, either because of the Helo-Boomer-Chief gossip chain mentioned before, or the one that must have started when the first thing Lee did, before even changing out of his flight suit, was to seek out Kara and go see her in the brig. There had to be a series of people there who he had to ask about her whereabouts, and the brig guard was definitely within earshot of the whole thing... And we all know that gossip travels fast on a ship that size.

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

the brig guard was definitely within earshot of the whole thing...

i really sorry if i'm accusing people of things that they are not culpable for but wasn't that person Sgt. Hadrian?

[sparklegirl79.livejournal.com]

I don't know if we ever saw them clearly enough to tell...

[winegums.livejournal.com]

the [gossip chain] that must have started when the first thing Lee did, before even changing out of his flight suit, was to seek out Kara and go see her in the brig.

That was what I thought, too - there is no way anyone would notice the Commander's chippy son making straight for the resident hotshot in the brig and not assume that they knew each other well, Chief didn't need any other cues to assume that this was someone's death that Starbuck should know about. And we KNOW Galactica gossips! (Racetrack laying bets on Gaeta and Hoshi hooking up in the webisodes, deleted scenes with Dee and Gaeta laughing about the prospect of Adama and Roslin getting together)

[sparklegirl79.livejournal.com]

And doesn't all scuttlebutt lead eventually to Cally? And Cally would fill her Chief in, wouldn't she? ;)

[winegums.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, Cally totally would, lol.

[lizziec]

I thought it was likely that Helo knew Lee and Kara were friends, esp. if he and Kara predate her assignment to Galactica - even if they'd never met before, I think Helo knew about Zak. And Kara and Boomer seem to have been friends before the whole Cylon discovery thing, it's not impossible that Helo gossiped a little to his rook pilot.

This train of thought suddenly occurred to me while I was (yes, again) washing up (where I do all my best Pilots thinking) (what'll I do if I ever get a dishwasher?) - just coming here to add to my comment when I found this :)

So, yes, I agree - it's established (I think) that Kara and Helo were friends and had been for ages, so foreknowledge of Lee isn't really surprising. He must have known something. I can kind of picture Helo as Kara's drinking buddy pre-mini, and at least a little of what she knew of Lee must have come out then.

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

It is established in a s4 deleted scene between Athena and Kara. Athena says K & H go back to boot camp together.

[lizziec]

Ahha! I thought it was somewhere :) Thanks :D

When I realised I was shipping Pilots by Lizzie, age 27 1/2

[lizziec]

For me it was all sorts of little things in the mini and the first part of s1, but I realised by AoC that I was truly madly deeply shipping Pilots.

There's the mini and all there little moments in that. The flirting in the brig scene (that first exchange "did they kiss your ass to your satisfaction" screams of a shared history to me that can't just be explained by her being his brother's fianceé and meeting him a couple of times), her devastation when he was missing presumed killed, her joy at seeing him again, the ramming scene (would she have tried that for anyone else?).

Then there's the start of s1. The scene between them over the stims (look at the chemistry there), the way she backs him up (eventually) over the Olympic Carrier. They all laid the ground work, but I think the reason I realised I was a full blown shipper during AoC was because it was AoC that really sealed the deal for me.

The Happy!Pilots scene at the start followed by the argument they had in the ready room after she washed out the nuggets. It always seems to me to be part lovers' tiff and part cag chewing out hotshot problem pilot (in much the way that she told him he should in "33" - yay character growth!).

Anyway, something in that episode clicked for me and everything fell in to place. Lee/Kara OTP.

ETA, evidence:

Re: When I realised I was shipping Pilots by Lizzie, age 27 1/2

[winegums.livejournal.com]

oh man, these pics are just KILLING me - their eyes! (and in the top one, their cuteness!)

(that first exchange "did they kiss your ass to your satisfaction" screams of a shared history to me that can't just be explained by her being his brother's fianceé and meeting him a couple of times)

Oh, absolutely. Pilots, from the first moment, always looked like they'd been really close in the past, and canon seems to suggest that too - they are definitely not two people who met just a few times as Zak's big brother and girlfriend. I'm so glad Ron Moore deviated from his series bible on that score.

And AoC/YCGHA is AMAZING. I remember watching Roslin tell off the Adamas, saying they were clinging so hard to Kara because she was their last link to Zak, and all I could think was "not for one of them, that's not all she is!". And the expression on his face when he spots her callsign taped to the underside of the Raider's wings...it's just guh-making. SO guh-making.

Re: When I realised I was shipping Pilots by Lizzie, age 27 1/2

[lizziec]

And the expression on his face when he spots her callsign taped to the underside of the Raider's wings...it's just guh-making. SO guh-making.

Yes! I think this requires more evidence... ;)

Re: When I realised I was shipping Pilots by Lizzie, age 27 1/2

[winegums.livejournal.com]

Guh. GUH. GUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

It really doesn't help when he looks like a puppy whose human just came home after a REALLY long time away!

[embolalia.livejournal.com]

It's hard for me to remember now because I've seen them all so many times, but I think it was Hand of God that pushed me over the edge. I liked them before, but the romance of the mini seemed to be more friendly/sibling-y through the first part of season one. And then she toasts him and hands him a cigar and I was done. Just wanted them to hook up right then and there. (And so I wrote it ;)

[winegums.livejournal.com]

Oh, I love that scene, SO MUCH - for once, he's the one who's all cocky and she's cheerfully admitting he was fantastic, and Apollo with a cigar - GUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHH!!!

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

ohh... i miss that scene *runs of to watch it again*.

they're like on top of the world there

[antismiles.livejournal.com]

Hee! This is one of my favorite topics because I always surprise people with my answer.

For I, my friends, am that person mentioned in the post. I didn't start shipping Pilots until Scar. (I am happy to learn I am not alone! Now I need to find the meta post referenced.)

Keep in mind I marathoned the first season, so all those moments between Lee and Kara were a leeeetle blurry. Colonial Day pinged my interest because Lee was so gob-smacked at Kara's dress, and the KLG scenes definitely made me sit up and take notice. At that point, though, I didn't ship them; I just thought they'd be hot together. *shrug* So all the moments in the mini, etc. didn't matter to me on a romantic level.

Because y'all, here's the thing: When I first watched BSG, I went in with no preconceptions and no influences about which pairing to ship. I'd never been involved in fandom and I was just plowing through the DVDs. (I've since figured out that I'm the kind of fan who doesn't start getting shippy until I'm watching in real time.)

I'm sure very few of you know that when I watched S2.0 for the first time I was COMPLETELY OKAY with the Kara/Sam aspects of it. I probably could have started shipping them if Kara had taken Sam back to Galactica with her asap. I thought they were hot and hey, look, banter-y UST RST. (I'm very easy to please.) But he didn't come back with Kara, and I kind of forgot about him after all the awesomeness of the Home arc. Kara/Sam was relegated to a corner of my mind and my interest in them never reappeared. (Most likely due to the fact that when Sam was reintroduced he quickly became a character I disliked. But I'm not going to get into that here.)

So, I was a latecomer to the Pilots ship. I didn't ship them until Scar. That was the episode that finally made me see what I'd been missing and that set off all the bells in my head telling me how great they were/could be. DAT ANGST. DAT CHEMISTRY. I fell head over heels for them, and when I rewatched S1 and 2.0 I was amazed I hadn't recognized the potential. And thus I delved into the Pilots fandom via rabid1st, latteaddict, and stars_like_dust. And lo, it was good. (I think fandom probably turned me into a shipper more than the show would have. Pilots in canon are... frustrating, to say the least.)

So yeah, I'm the odd man out when it comes to the shipping timeline. Ah well, I got there in the end, right? ;)

[nazkey.livejournal.com]

I think fandom probably turned me into a shipper more than the show would have. Pilots in canon are... frustrating, to say the least.

THIS.

[antismiles.livejournal.com]

Seriously, I was in a constant battle with myself over shipping Pilots during S3 and especially S4. I probably jumped the (canon) ship somewhere in S4 - I found Kara so unlikable and frustrating - but I remained happy with Pilots in fic. The fanon ship is great.

[nazkey.livejournal.com]

Yes, the fanon ship is the best. I actually really started liking Lee when he resigned! It felt like he sort of "clicked" into place for me. In fanon tho, he's just so awesome and way less frustrating.

Oh and yeah. Let's not even talk about Dead!Whatever!Kara.

[damao2010.livejournal.com]

I'm glad you finally saw the light. :)

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

Ah well, I got there in the end, right? ;)

imho, that's all that matters. but is interesting to see another view on things

[winegums.livejournal.com]

I'm so late to replying to this, but - w00000t!!!!! I can see how marathoning BSG in one gulp might cause a few piloty things to slip by unnoticed along the way, but still, Scar is a fantastic episode to see the light with - and yeah, you're here so all is good :).

I went into the series with pretty much no knowledge of it at all beyond the explanation of what Cylons were, and frankly Lee and Kara at first sight... I didn't really go shippy until their reunion and the Viper-ramming. And I hear you on needing to watch things in real time to warm up to them, I tend to be the same way too which is why I pace out my DVD watching for fear that I'll miss things.

[pressdbtwnpages.livejournal.com]

I confess, as I was watching the beginning of the mini I was all "Oh, Starbuck and Apollo, I think I'm supposed to ship them" and then after the brig scene, yeah.

(Bizarrely, the first bit of BSG I ever saw was the last 15 minutes of Crossroads II, which may have colored my impressions of the show and given me some VERY strange ideas.)

[winegums.livejournal.com]

I had pretty much the same reaction - the "oh, yeah, they'll hook up" followed by the "oh yes, please let them hook up!"

[damao2010.livejournal.com]

When I learned they were doing BSG again and that Starbuck was going to be a woman, it turned me off for a long time and I really resisted the idea a lot. It seemed such a cheap shot and it seemed pretty obvious before I even watched any episode for the time that they had intended to make them a couple of sorts. So, when I finally watched the mini I was expecting that, but I didn't really think they would be able to pull it off. Boy, was I wrong? LOL. I fell in love with Lee right away. And I loved the chemistry between him and Kara. The picture scene sealed the deal for me.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

Oh hey, you're an original series fan? I can understand why people wouldn't be pleased with the gimmicky-sounding remake, but it's nice to find unexpected ship love!

[justascrewup2.livejournal.com]

Well I was intrigued in the mini with Kara from the start - I love strong female characters. Wasn't so sure about Lee. He seemed uptight, but the scene with them in the brig showed some signs of him having life and around the scenes with him and Roslin on the new Colonial 1, I decided he might be ok.

As for pilots....when Lee pulled Kara out from under the viper she was working on, I was totally hooked. Definitely my OTP, even after all these years have passed.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, that was it for me too. The only reason it's not my screencap is because none of the caps of him pulling her out from under her Viper have them both in the same frame, but it was love from the moment I saw him looking down at her, and the look on her face when she saw him.

*sigh* oh, pilots....