DPP: Counter-factual pilots

[lizziec]

Hello everyone and welcome to my week of DPP posts :) On each day I'll include a pretty screenshot of pilots, because I can (though only from s1 and 2 cos they're the only two seasons I have access to screenshot at the moment ;))

This week I'm marking history exams, so I thought I'd get us kicked off with a slightly historically themed DPP - Counter-factual pilots.

What scenes or episodes would you change if you could have the power to go back in time and fix something you think was broken? Would you change it so a spanner was thrown in the works of our pilots, or change it so they had a better chance of some sort of happy ending? What effect do you think your change would have had on the stories further down the line?

To get you started here's one of mine:
I'd change Maelstrom. I know I've mentioned this before but I was devastated by the outcome of Maelstrom and spent the entire episode (and still do) willing Lee to ground her and help her sort her head out. He usually (IMO) has such good instincts when it comes to Kara and when she needs to be pushed or supported but they're completely absent in this episode. Earlier in the run (S1 or 2) I think he'd have listened to her when she said she didn't want to go out because she didn't trust herself (though I know in S1 or 2 that Kara probably wouldn't have told him that). I think that changing the outcome of Maelstrom would have changed the last series completely, and maybe led to a more meaningful death for one or both of them - or even some sort of happy ending. Hopefully, at the very least, it would have stopped the last season getting so twisted up in the mythology that BSG had been creating at this point.

Feel free to bring rants, discussion, meta, recommendations of meta or fic or even some comment fic of your own :)

Comments

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

I've thought about this a million times and have written lots of fix-it fic, but in the end, I'd change her angel/poof arc, which means she doesn't have to die in the maelstrom and she didn't have to poof. Those two seem inexorably linked, so I can't really change the poof without keeping her alive through maelstrom. As much as I hate it, I have come to accept that she was no longer Kara after Maelstrom and that pre-destines the poof. Change Maelstrom, maybe the poof goes with it, although RDM would have undoubtedly found a different way to frak them up.

I could live with the rest of canon if they were together in the end.

*cries*

[lizziec]

I think it's interesting that most people have fixed on Maelstrom/Kara's death as the thing they would changed. Sometimes there's a lot of debate about where things in various series started to go wrong, but always for me Maelstrom was the big neon sign for BSG because I think that's when they started to get too involved in their own mythology but without having planned it out they got involved without having any idea where it would ultimately lead too.

I think I could almost live with Kara's death (if TPTB had decided she really needed to die) if it had happened in some sort of meaningful way. And stuck. Or found themselves a more convincing way of bringing her back.

Argh. There are moments in Maelstrom that I love, but I'm so scarred by it and everything that came after :/

[winegums.livejournal.com]

I think you're spot-on in your diagnosis of Maelstrom, because it wasn't till the writers sat down to work on it that they decided they were going to kill off Kara. Avoiding her death would have also sidestepped the poof, so in that sense, it would have been the best way to at least leave pilots together - though I don't blame Lee for what he did (on one level, that faith and trust was what she needed, and their scene under the wing leaves me with physical aches every time I watch it).

BUT, if I had to pick other moments from which to turn canon in a different direction, I would have

1. had Kara go straight to Lee's bedside at the end of Sacrifice, instead of hanging around just out of sight feeling guilty and letting Dee behave like she's the one Lee needs to come back to. Maybe if she'd done that, Lee and Dee wouldn't have gotten quite so cozy and domestic rightaway.

OR

2. had Lee actually take her up on her hypothetical "I'll-divorce-Sam-if-you-leave-Dee". I don't blame him for being scared of her doing yet another 180 and destroying him completely this time (just like I don't hold Kara's bedside holding back against her), but if only he'd recognised just how monumental even that was for her, things might have been different.

OR

3. Had him wake up first in Unfinished Business (though I don't know if that would have prevented her leaving after actually saying she was going to leave him for Sam, which would have still left us with two devastated pilots and a lost friendship - but at least they'd have had the chance to talk).

[lizziec]

because it wasn't till the writers sat down to work on it that they decided they were going to kill off Kara.

I think this sort of thing is a huge reason why I struggle with some of the decisions made by TPTB about the direction the show was going to take. They decided on the spur of the moment to kill Kara and bring her back, presumably without having any clear idea of where that would eventually lead them and then brought in a bloody pigeon as some sort of allegory because RDM wanted it and then (seemingly) constructing the end of Kara's character arc around that random idea.

Hm. Sorry. Rant.

1. had Kara go straight to Lee's bedside at the end of Sacrifice, instead of hanging around just out of sight feeling guilty and letting Dee behave like she's the one Lee needs to come back to.

Yes! I mean, I can understand why she did what she did - I always felt it was very in keeping with Kara's character to feel that level of guilt and let that hold her back, but it's one of those small moments which could have changed so much :(

2. had Lee actually take her up on her hypothetical "I'll-divorce-Sam-if-you-leave-Dee". I don't blame him for being scared of her doing yet another 180 and destroying him completely this time (just like I don't hold Kara's bedside holding back against her), but if only he'd recognised just how monumental even that was for her, things might have been different.

I think how difficult that must have been for her is the real key here. Based on everything we know about Kara's character it's pretty obvious to most of us that going and essentially admitting she was wrong probably took a lot of courage. I don't think she'd think twice about facing a dozen cylons, but facing Lee and being all emotionally vulnerable... that took serious guts.

3. Had him wake up first in Unfinished Business (though I don't know if that would have prevented her leaving after actually saying she was going to leave him for Sam, which would have still left us with two devastated pilots and a lost friendship - but at least they'd have had the chance to talk).

I think it might have made some difference. I always felt that she ran because she was afraid (not because she suddenly realised that what she really wanted was Sam). If Lee had recognised that in her I think he might have been able to talk her down. Before she married Sam.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

2. Based on everything we know about Kara's character it's pretty obvious to most of us that going and essentially admitting she was wrong probably took a lot of courage. I don't think she'd think twice about facing a dozen cylons, but facing Lee and being all emotionally vulnerable... that took serious guts.

You have it right on the nose. It's so much easier for Kara to blow Cylons out of the sky and risk her own death a hundred times over than to face her feelings and open up to Lee (which is why her going to him when she found and burned her body on Earth is another monumental step forward for her, even if seeing his tragedy meant she put hers aside just then - he came through in spades at the end of Islanded In A Stream of Stars)

3. I think it might have made some difference. I always felt that she ran because she was afraid (not because she suddenly realised that what she really wanted was Sam). If Lee had recognised that in her I think he might have been able to talk her down. Before she married Sam.

I thought Kara ran because she was afraid too, and that's made pretty clear by what she says during their open-air frak as well as her finally facing Lee after her marriage in the flashback. My instincts say that Lee might have been able to talk her down too, I guess I should stop second-guessing on this. Kara on that main street looked very much like someone who regretted what she'd done/wanted to be talked out of it, so yeah, I do think things would have been different if Lee had woken up first.

[lizziec]

I thought Kara ran because she was afraid too

I'm glad that's not just me. I said out loud the first time I watched UB "oh no, she's running away because she's frightened!" and Ben (husband) gave me a Look that said "you're a crazy person who is reading too much in to the actions of fictional characters" :)

Kara on that main street looked very much like someone who regretted what she'd done/wanted to be talked out of it

That's certainly I've always seen it anyway.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

"you're a crazy person who is reading too much in to the actions of fictional characters" :)

Which is what fandom is all about :)

[winegums.livejournal.com]

I should add: re: no. 3, I might be projecting, because I did something similar once - cut and ran from someone I really liked because I thought I wasn't good enough for him anyway. I did it in the grip of depression/other major life problems and he wasn't (thank god) my best friend, but we never went back to the way we were, and no amount of talking could have talked me out of that decision.

Kara and Lee, on the other hand....they tend to end up leaving things unsaid so often/running from things about to be said, that who knows - one final, morning-after talking-to with Lee would probably have stopped Kara from marrying Sam, especially if she'd been able to voice her fears out loud to Lee instead of acting on them.

[lizziec]

I just wanted to respond to this. I think one of the things that makes BSG so compelling is that we can project our own life situations on to the characters because the characters that the actors (especially) create are so believable that we can see our life experiences reflected back. I've found it in what I see as Lee's depression at the start of season 3. Jamie's portrayal of Lee in that arc I identified with so strongly because it was very similar to my experiences of depression, which I've had to a greater or lesser extent since 2004.

because I thought I wasn't good enough for him anyway

Even if you hadn't shared about the depression/major life stuff that would have been a dead giveaway. It's the evil little voice in your head when you're in the grip that tells you (generic you, not you specifically) that you're not worthy. I hope things are better now.

Kara and Lee, on the other hand....they tend to end up leaving things unsaid so often/running from things about to be said, that who knows - one final, morning-after talking-to with Lee would probably have stopped Kara from marrying Sam, especially if she'd been able to voice her fears out loud to Lee instead of acting on them.

I think this is what it comes down to - Kara's actions in the context of the rest of their relationship, and Lee's way of responding to them. That's why I think if he'd woken up first the outcome would have been different.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

I think this is what it comes down to - Kara's actions in the context of the rest of their relationship, and Lee's way of responding to them. That's why I think if he'd woken up first the outcome would have been different.

Absolutely. Thinking back to Scar or even The Captain's Hand, Lee ultimately comes through for Kara whenever she manages to come right out with the fact that something between the two of them is bothering her - which isn't that often, but we've seen that he's capable of reassurance when she needs it. If he'd actually got the chance to stop her from running and get her to talk, I agree that things would have been different.


I hope things are better now.

Thank you, and I hope things are better for you too. It's not as bad as it used to get, which is something..

[damao2010.livejournal.com]

There are lots of tiny moments I could gladly change, but they are not that important in the big scheme of things. I too agree that the moment things really spiraled out of control was Maelstrom. I can't get over Kara's death. I think it was the single worst mistake, the stupidest decision the writers ever made. If I could only change one thing, it would be that, no question about it. ANd not only because of my shipper heart.

[lizziec]

What kind of tiny moments? I'm curious now :)

[damao2010.livejournal.com]

Oh, there are so many. I wouldn't have Kara sleeping with Baltar on Colonial. I wouldn't have Lee being so nasty about it. I wouldn't have Kara falling for Sam. I wouldn't have Kara not visiting Lee after she shot him. I wouldn't have Lee dating Dee. I wouldn't have Kara marrying Sam. Especially not when she did it. I wouldn't have Lee marrying Dee. I wouldn't have Kara not accepting to have a divorce. I wouldn't have Lee having second thoughts about leaving Dee.

But despite the fact I wasn't pleased with any of those moments, I can understand them and painful though they were, they felt believable. So I could live with them, because both of them learned so much along the way and they were on their way to each other. But her death not only changed everything, it didn't make sense at all. It served no purpose that wouldn't have been better achieved some other way. It was poorly thought out and was created more for shock value than anything else. And later on, they didn't know waht to do with it. The whole thing didn't make sense at all, not even from a supernatural point of view.

[lizziec]

But her death not only changed everything, it didn't make sense at all. It served no purpose that wouldn't have been better achieved some other way. It was poorly thought out and was created more for shock value than anything else. And later on, they didn't know waht to do with it. The whole thing didn't make sense at all, not even from a supernatural point of view.

Oh! This this this this this this. So much this. I've said further up the page that I think could live with her death if it had been more meaningful and if she'd stayed dead. If she'd died as a result of a heroic sacrifice or to save someone she loved, or just in the course of her every day job, which was always a possibility for her anyway, and she knew it was (look at her in Scar on Bright Shiny Futures that she'd probably never live to see).

[eternal-nomad1.livejournal.com]

I know I am in the minority on this but I hate UB. I wish to hell it never happened. I did not want Kara to be a coward to this extent and the things were never the same between the pilots after that - the breach of trust was just too great.

[lizziec]

I can see it. I think I focus on Maelstrom because it was such a huge thing - once she was dead everything was pretty much doomed, but I winced while watching UB. I could see her running away because she was scared, but I found it more of a stretch that she then would marry Sam straight away and wouldn't go back. I felt so bad for Lee as well, waking up and then finding out about the marriage as he did. Again, if she'd just run away and then he went to find her and talk her round that would be one thing - one trust to re-establish - but to marry after he laid everything out the night before was just brutal. It left everything in shatters.

[eternal-nomad1.livejournal.com]

The thing is, for me, UB is the beginning of the chain of events that led to Maelstrom (at least when you don't count the big bad Destiny (Ron Moore)). I don't think Kara would have flown into the mandala if she didn't feel she had nothing left. That's my take on it, anyway.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

To me, the end of UB was what re-established their friendship, so that is why I love it even if the flashbacks leave me gutted every time.

At least it gave them both back that much - the subsequent complications and going back and forth really got frakked in TAB, when Kara finally laid it on the line and Lee decided to stay married (again, understandable in a way considering what the events of the flashbacks did to him, but....). Though I agree, Kara wouldn't have flown into the mandala if things had gone differently.

[pressdbtwnpages.livejournal.com]

As much as I hate Maelstrom/Kara's death/s4 arc, I could live with the poof if it weren't for the damn Daybreak flashbacks that retcon Kara and Lee's pre-series friendship. So I would get rid of those and then happily flop around in all the lovely canon-compliant Academy-era fic.

[lizziec]

Daybreak flashbacks? What Daybreak flashbacks? ;)

In all seriousness, I can sort of see where you're coming from there. For starters, it never seemed particularly in keeping with what (little) we knew about Kara's relationship with Zak. Even when she was blind drunk.

[embolalia.livejournal.com]

As much as I like Sam as a person, he's one of the things I would change. (Besides the above-mentioned) I didn't even mind his relationship with Kara from LDYB on, though we didn't see much of it -- it was just the part in Scar where Kara was suddenly hung up on him that I never got. They had a fling for a week and then he's the meaning in her life? Nope. If Zak and Lee didn't change Kara in that way, I have a hard time believing Sam could.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

I never thought that Kara's breakdown in Scar was about Sam himself so much as what he represented to her - like Zak, another guy who loved her without baggage, but who would end up dying because she couldn't do what she promised she would (train him properly in Zak's case, come back for him in Sam's) despite the fact that she really didn't have much control over the outcome (i.e. Zak had no feel for flying, and Kara needed a whole squadron of Raptors to get back to Caprica). So Sam was, in a way, her chance to atone for that old mistake with Zak - I thought that was it, rather than "he's the great love of her life".

[lizziec]

I really like this theory. It's not something that had occurred to me before.

[lizziec]

If Zak and Lee didn't change Kara in that way, I have a hard time believing Sam could.

I totally agree with that. I think it comes back to what Lee said in Scar - she has issues with living guys but gets hung up on ones she thinks are dead. I think you see that in her relationship with Sam in S3 and S4 as well. Without wanting to be too unkind I think he exists as someone to frak and be window dressing right up until he's shot and stops existing as her Sam. Then she gets more hung up on him again.