[identity profile] ninjamonkey73.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] no_takebacks
Greetings and salutations, Shipper Nation! I'm Amy, your friendly neighborhood monkey ninja.

So far this week, we've talked about how we do (or don't) explain pilots to Muggles, we shared their secrets, we wrote (epic) Haiku, and there were more prompts than drabbles. Feel free to revisit any of those posts and keep adding to them. Today, it's:


Myspace Glitter Graphics - http://www.sparklee.com

What's on your mind, 'shipper nation? Have a gripe about an episode? Are you such a Lee fangirl you want to shout his praises from the nearest mountaintop? Want to try your hand at a comment!fic and need a prompt (go ahead and ask, we'll enable)? Have a neat picspam you want to stare at for a few minutes? Or that gif. You know the one I'm talking about. From EoJ. Yeah, that one. Mmmm...

The world's your proverbial oyster, people! Chat it up!
From: [identity profile] howlinchickhowl.livejournal.com
So, because I'm pretty new to BSG and wasn't watching when it was airing, and because I'm one of the only people I know in real life that has watched it, I find myself compelled to ask, because I want to know and cannot for the life of me figure it out myself...What was up with Black Market?

I mean, honestly what was it about? Because in my view, it came out of nowhere, made no sense, and faded into obscurity. It was like they suddenly decided to just put in this whole history about Lee which from where I stood, had nothing to do with his character and she no extra light on who he was, and it just frustrated me a whole lot because then I felt like he wasn't who I thought he was, or that I had missed something.

So, people who know much more about this show than I do and were watching at the time when all the shit went down, what was actually up with that? Was there a reason for all the crazy hooker/baby backstory insertion, or was it just filler?
From: [identity profile] rachelindeed.livejournal.com
Hee! Personally, I hate Black Market and ignore it. It's generally regarded as one of the worst episodes, though some people have been able to salvage something from it or make something of the various backstory bits we get. It's also the episode which the creators themselves have most directly criticized, though the flaws they identify in it are not necessarily the same flaws we tend to see (they say nothing about Kara's inexplicable absence from the story both literally and emotionally, for example). But Ron Moore's commentary on this episode is interesting and he tries to explore the ways the episode went wrong. If you'd like to hear his take on it, his commentary is transcibed HERE (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Podcast:Black_Market).
From: [identity profile] callmeonetrack.livejournal.com
MOD Note: Rachel just FYI, if you were confused as to why this comment wasn't showing up at first, it got screened because of the link to the transcript (I guess?). LJ has started screenings posts that contain a link to sites not on an approved whitelist. I guess battlestarwiki is one, Dave's video site is another actually. Just to let you know... I just saw the comment and unscreened it, but they haven't even been notifying site owners about the screenings.
From: [identity profile] rachelindeed.livejournal.com
Oh, thanks Tara. Sorry for the trouble - I'm still figuring out the new LJ rules :)
From: [identity profile] callmeonetrack.livejournal.com
No trouble, just wanted to let you know in case you wondered why you couldn't see it at first.
From: [identity profile] thegreenkitty.livejournal.com
Just wanted to say hello and it's great having you in fangirl-land!!

I don't think you'll inspire fangirl anger...lots of us wonder about Black Market...so no worries. I'm relatively ambivalent toward it though so I'll leave this one for someone else to try to rationalize/fix. ;)
From: [identity profile] howlinchickhowl.livejournal.com
Hi :) Thanks! It's pretty great being here. I'm glad I'm not the only one who just doesn't understand

From: [identity profile] dannicawebb.livejournal.com
i can't rationalize or fix it but i can commiserate. i had to get really really really fucking drunk to make it through that episode because there was just...so much wtf-ery! i'm totally with you.
From: [identity profile] howlinchickhowl.livejournal.com
ok, well I didn't have to resort to drinking, which is good, but yeah, it was just very wrong.

Things that are not wrong you ask? My shiny new icon featuring Kara and Helo, because I know how that makes you happy and not feel the need to drink :)
From: [identity profile] dannicawebb.livejournal.com
oh gorgeousness! thank you so much :) this completely makes my weekend.
From: [identity profile] howlinchickhowl.livejournal.com
so pretty right? Glad I could make you smilier, though I feel compelled to mention that I didn't make this, I stole it from [livejournal.com profile] big_blue_bin, but I love it superloads :D
From: [identity profile] embolalia.livejournal.com
If you're watching it on DVD, you should listen to the commentary. Because Ron Moore hates it as much as you (and most of us) do. And says so vociferously :)
From: [identity profile] howlinchickhowl.livejournal.com
I am not, I've been saving up for the Blu-rays :D But it gives me hope that he hates it, so watching that will probably be the first thing I do when I finally get them :) Thank you!
From: [identity profile] callmeonetrack.livejournal.com
I wrote a meta essay about the WTFery of Black Market once. Ron's podcast pretty much explains that it was a total failure, but proves he has no idea WHY it was a failure. Because he has no idea who Lee is/was.

FAIL

My thoughts on why Black Market was so misguided (http://taragel.livejournal.com/127648.html)

From: [identity profile] howlinchickhowl.livejournal.com
Thanks, this was interesting. I went over and read the transcript of the podcast as well, sometimes it just seems like RDM doesn't really know what he's saying, but, and here's what I don't get about that, they wanted you to go away from it thinking, I don't know this guy at all? That was the intent? Why would you want that for a character? Why?

Like, retcon is one thing, and I don't like it most of the time but I can see why it's necessary sometimes when you want to develop a character in a certain way but don't want it to seem like it's coming out of left field, but COMPLETELY reinventing a character's motives and (for want of a better word) self-ness in a way that means that everything they've done and everything you've ever thought about them up until that point means absolutely nothing? What is that?

Ugh.

I don't dislike RDM as much as a lot of people seem to, maybe because I wasn't watching in real time and so didn't go through all the waiting and the disappointment and such in the same way, but that just pisses me off.
From: [identity profile] callmeonetrack.livejournal.com
"I don't dislike RDM as much as a lot of people seem to"

Keep reading the transcripts and you might. ;)

No, but seriously, I think as the seasons progressed he became more and more in love with throwing in random plot twists just for the sake of them being random. IMO, he's a little too much in love with the element of surprise and the "gotcha" moments, and a little too lazy to actually lay the groundwork so that they ALSO felt organic to the character development so you could see where they were coming from.
From: [identity profile] howlinchickhowl.livejournal.com
But I don't want to hate him! He gave me BSG, I want to at least retain a little respect for him...

But I agree that he seems to get caught up with the big ideas and less concerned with making them work. Like, All Along The Watchtower? How does that make any sense? I mean, I enjoyed it, and it was cool, and Bear McCreary is MADE OF AWESOME, but does it make any kind of sense at all? No. No it does not.

*sigh*

Date: 2011-05-13 06:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thegreenkitty.livejournal.com
So, b/c I'm not going to have time to make my own post or comisserate (I swear I used to know how to spell...sigh) on other people's posts until later, I'll just post here...

I'm sad about no Jamie/James/Tricia on NBC. :(

I thought I'd feel enough "karma's a bitch" toward RDM that I wouldn't be super upset if NBC didn't pick up 17P. I thought wrong though. It turns out the power of JB/JC buddy cops and Tricia necromancing overrides the RDM angst. I suppose this realization is healthy...i.e. positive thoughts for those I love is now winning over the extreme negative thoughts that RDM creates in my soul...but still...SADNESS!! (I went and watched some L+O:UK to cope but it's not the same as bsg reunion.)

*sighs and hugs the fangirls*

In happier news, when will (or how do) we have access to French speaking Jamie!hotness in movie form?? When will we find out about Longmire? How do we bribe Katee and Jamie to come to D*C? Enquiring fangirls need to know!!

Date: 2011-05-13 07:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anastashial.livejournal.com
I too am sad about this. At the time I first heard I was concerned that Jamie was leaving L&O because I hed fears about the pilot process. I also really liked him in the roll. There was just enough angst-worthy info about his background to keep me wondering. I'll never forget his reveal to Ronnie at the end of Confession.

Still, I can understand Jamie's frustration with the formula that would not allow further exploration of those themes. Secondly, his desire to be in LA for the additional opportunities it affords him is understandable.

I don't watch much TV at all, but what series that people here also enjoy would they like to see him guesting in?

Date: 2011-05-13 08:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] howlinchickhowl.livejournal.com
Sooo sad, buddy cops James and Jamie? How could that go wrong?! I was looking forward to this, and probably would have watched it even if it was awful.

Bad times.

But it's good that you're growing as a person :)

Date: 2011-05-13 11:51 pm (UTC)
lizziec: (BSG - Apollo smile)
From: [personal profile] lizziec
Is there a chance it could get picked up by another network, or is it NBC-specific? I'm not really too clear on how US telly works. *crosses fingers that if/when Jamie leaves L&O:UK there'll be something else to see him in (besides my DVDs of BSG and Hornblower)*

Date: 2011-05-14 04:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anastashial.livejournal.com
Jamie did leave L&O:UK to do the pilot. What I'm not sure of is what was the last episode he appeared in. There seems to be a much longer time between the eps being done and showing than most would like. His last ep may have already been seen in the UK, or there may still be one more six or seven ep "series". I'm not sure where the BBCA broadcast sked is currently. At least two of the other players are also definitely gone, yet I saw them in the last eps I've seen well after that was announced.

As soon as I heard that Jamie had left my greatest fear was that the pilot would not get picked up and then he would be left looking for something else long term. It does seem like he's been successful at having a nice mix though, so I'm confident we'll see lots more of him. I would though love to see him in a more "mainstrream" movie role at this point.

Date: 2011-05-14 05:01 pm (UTC)
lizziec: (BSG - Apollo & Starbuck Viper & Raider ()
From: [personal profile] lizziec
We just saw the tail end of the series where James (the lead prosecutor) leaves, which according to the fount of all knowledge (wikipedia :)) is the last of the episodes broadcast anywhere so far (thanks to the wonky ITV scheduling meaning we see some after the US). I had heard that Jamie was leaving (because of the pilot), but what I meant (and explained badly) was that I didn't know if he was wrapping up his character or if he'd just be "gone" at the start of the next series, meaning whether there was another episode he'd be in or if we'd seen the last of him, if you see what I mean?

Date: 2011-05-14 05:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anastashial.livejournal.com
I'm Yes exactly, is he going to be in that next series of six or seven eps that have yet to be seen AFAIK? I'm thinking the answer is yes just because of the timing thing, but wondering if that means there'll be a wrapup for Matt as you are.

I've just looked at the Wiki article on the eps in combination with this statement A third order of 13 episodes was announced in October 2010. in the general show article. From that I would say there's a good chance Matt will just disappear if the statememt is taken to mean they were just given the go ahead for those eps. I guess one would need to know when they started those and when the pilot work started on 17th P though. Maybe there was enough time to get in a departure for Matt in one of the earlier eps.

Date: 2011-05-14 09:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] callmeonetrack.livejournal.com
He is in the "next" season (S6? S7? as they term it in the UK, I think it would be S3 for the US as they're running 13-episodes rather than 6 or 7 eps like UK). But he "left early" according to Jamie Bamber News to come here and be filming 17th P. They have more details on it in their archives.

Date: 2011-05-14 06:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] callmeonetrack.livejournal.com
Lou Diamond Phillips tweeted me (after I asked of course) that it would be a few more months before A&E decides on Longmire officially. :(

ETA: The way to get Katee and Jamie to D*C? Maybe through peer pressure? Tricia would have to work on Katee and Ioan Gruffudd (who might be there for Ringer, although not a supernatural show) would have to get Jamie to go!
probably didn't help.
Edited Date: 2011-05-14 06:19 am (UTC)

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