No Takebacks

I sort of feel like, pre-apocylpse she would've kept a baby. Religious reasons as well as personal ones. But I don't think she would have post-apoclypse. As she was a pilot, perhaps they would have made an exception on the ban. For essential personnel? Idk.

Definitely could see her going either way. Depending.

From:

During the rewatch of LDYB we started speaking about Lee's involvement in the decision to approve the rescue mission to Caprica. We started this after Lee's speech in front of the pilots and during the talk that he had with Kara in his office before she left. So I'm wondering - taking advantage of today's topic - what do you think about this?

From:

onlyariana.livejournal.com

I wonder too. I can't see her being sidelined willingly for any length of time with cylons shooting people out of the air. She about went crazy when her knee was messed up for that short time so how much more would she hate being out of it long term.

On the other hand I do think she'd have issues religiously. I think she could get over them but I think they'd be there. I've mostly felt the "marriage is a sacrament" thing was truly how she felt but only followed because it was convenient.

On my handy third hand - I think the issue of the baby being an Adama would play into it. She took away a son/brother she can repay some with a grandchild/child.

But mostly what I think is that true birth control failure is RARE. Most of the time it's improper use not failure. Kara really isn't into the idea of having kids so she will make sure she doesn't. She may look out of control but she really (really, really) isn't. She'd be on hormonal birth control AND use a condom, she'd know if certain things were going to interfere with either method. So this issue would never come up. Unless - she started getting sloppy and that was actually a changing of her feelings about having kids and in that case I think she'd keep it.

From:

I think, if she had any control at all over the situation, she'd want an abortion - her feelings on the subject of kids/having kids are made pretty clear and only change when she's presented with Kacey (a situation she has NO control over), but I honestly wonder what she'd have done if she knew Lee was the father (especially given her own issues with her mother and absentee dad).

Honestly, I think it could go either way, depending on what point in the story we're at - post-Farm/post-NC dollhouse, she'd def. want an abortion, legal or not. But at other points in the story....maybe?

From:

You know what I said :)

But I definitely do think that it's no coincidence that Kara - who pushed hard for this for months before giving up (c. Scar, maybe even c. RS2) suddenly gets approval for her mission within a month of Lee taking command of the Pegasus, especially given his openly expressed support of the plan and Adama and Roslin's stiff resistance before that.

I think part of that can be attributed to Kara making a fresh push for it (what happened between them in Scar, Sacrifice and The Captain's Hand definitely had a role in this), but the fact that it succeeded this time, that definitely smells to me like Lee backing the plan to PapAdama and getting him to agree.

From:

I would have to agree with you. I'm not very sure that Adama, Lee (even other people) would not have tried to prevent her from doing so no mater who the father was.

But I think that in those conditions her first reaction would have been to not keep the baby.

From:

Well, yes... I know what you said. and you know I agree totally with you.

Btw, it's good to be able to meet you during the week :)

From:

I've always found it interesting that Kara doesn't seem to allow herself to really express her feelings for someone unless they're dead/as good as dead/she thinks they're dead.

(see: Lee being assumed dead in the miniseries, Sam when Cylon Simon tells her he's dead in The Farm and in Scar, Sam again during Goo Tub time, Socrata, to a lesser extent Zak - whose death I think was what changed everything.)

And the miniseries reunion is kind of what sets it all off for pilots - once she's acknowledged, even in the smallest way, the fact that his death affects her, it's flat-out dangerous when he walks back into her life and is perfectly fine)

From:

You too, bb :)

From:

rirenec.livejournal.com

Lee's suicidal thoughts. He's not offered much help, aside from Kara's moment.

From:

That's true, though he doesn't let anyone know what's going on besides Kara (and Dee finds out by listening in).

Come to think of it, no one offers him any help when he goes into depression following UB either. Not that anyone who was up there besides Dee could probably figure out what it was (since she alone knew the cause).

From:

rirenec.livejournal.com

I do feel for him, as he gets so little help; mainly criticism. I also feel for Dee, as she's mentally in a similar place. So sad.

From:

Pretty much everyone in the military besides Helo looks like they're severely in need of a whole raft of therapists.

I think Chief and Kara are the only ones who are ever offered the option, but taking help of that kind just doesn't seem to be part of that culture, since both of them reject it - the ONLY person who sees a shrink is Hera, and she's a toddler.

From:

rirenec.livejournal.com

That's very true. I always thought more should've been investigated into the PTSS and the other factors weighing on them.

From:

rachelindeed.livejournal.com

I've always thought it was interesting in "Maelstrom," when Lee is talking with his Dad about whether Kara needs to be taken out of the cockpit, Lee says very matter of factly that during peacetime "we'd all be grounded." In other words, I think he's assuming that every single one of their pilots including himself is suffering some form of combat fatigue and/or post-traumatic stress, and that none of them would be allowed to fly if they had any other options. But they don't. They're all not safe to fly, to greater or lesser degrees, and they all go out anyway because it's a war of extermination they're facing and if they don't go out there's no one to replace them.

From:

I always felt like this was such a big piece of Lee's character that got overlooked. I guess they thought they could make it a quick little arc that tied up neatly with the Black Market episode. But really, we could have used much more development there. It's sort of played as 'he just got over it' more than I thought was realistic.

Although, I was always of the opinion that Lee was never actively suicidal. In that one moment of despair, he didn't fight to NOT die, but I think that may be worlds away from being suicidal. Idk, honestly. Not something I know a ton about, but it seems like there's a clear distinction there. To me anyways.

Regardless, he was in a terrible spot mentally and that doesn't just go away. You can argue that they revisited it again in his weight gain, but similarly to the hooker storyline, it felt so weird and poorly done as to be useless for the character's development.

From:

And the miniseries reunion is kind of what sets it all off for pilots - once she's acknowledged, even in the smallest way, the fact that his death affects her, it's flat-out dangerous when he walks back into her life and is perfectly fine

And I think this is the crux of it, really. She possesses such a strong defensive mechanism that death is the only time that she can deal with her feelings and let them free. Because she so fears the repercussions of sincerity and openness. A lesson learned from both parents and from Zak. If you open yourself up, you will certainly get hurt.

Perhaps the only reason Lee and Sam do get to that place where she acknowledges her connection to them (even to herself) is because at different points, she assumed them both dead and let the true strength of her feelings manifest. Because she thought it was safe to finally do so.

Them coming back, though welcome, is disconcerting because 'now what?' pretty much. How do you un-recognize how important someone is to you? You can't. And so you can either push them away in fear; Lee. Or you can dive in headfirst; Sam.

From:

n-e-star.livejournal.com

You can argue that they revisited it again in his weight gain,

Holy cow! I had never connected the two before, but... yeah. A passive form of despair.

From:

How do you un-recognize how important someone is to you? You can't.

Exactly. And Sam has many shades of Zak mk. II (easygoing dude who would do pretty much anything for her), it's impossible not to see the connection as stemming at least partly from what he symbolises - a fresh start, no baggage from her past - more than who he is.

From:

Yup. Very true. I think it's well demonstrated that Kara is quite comfortable with a man who let's her decide how much she's willing to commit. It's one of the reasons her & Lee struggle, he wants it all, all the time. Sam & Zak are considerably less needy that way. Which is weird, because she was willing to marry both of them, which is supposedly the biggest commitment of all.

From:

I think it's the fact that with Sam and Zak (at least what we've extrapolated of Zak in canon), she is the one who calls the shots in those relationships, and they're ok with that.

With Lee, the combination of him not being willing to settle (he's pretty much the polar opposite of Sam and Zak, personality-wise, I'd guess he's certainly not Kara's usual type) plus her fear of her own feelings for him (too big, too scary, RUN!!!!) means that the power balance isn't quite so heavily weighted on her side there. And for someone who likes being spontaneous and unplanned, she's actually quite a fan of getting to dictate the terms on which her relationships are conducted.

From:

I also forgot the fact that Razor happened during this time (between TCH and LDYB) - I can imagine Kara deciding to put in a fresh push for Mission Caprica after quitting as Lee's CAG.

And I can def. believe that the renewed energy towards rescuing Sam had more than a little to do with the outcome of Razor too, as did Lee's decision to back the plan (out of guilt for nearly ordering her to die?). The problem is that this makes the timeframe so tight, unless we assume that Baltar declared his presidency bid/had the conference a while after Lee packed up to move to Pegasus/reconciled with Kara.

From: