DPP: Fanon aka Tie Me Up With Tropes

[winegums.livejournal.com]

Welcome to this week's DPP, everyone! I'm usually all over the discussion of canon and I cheerfully admit it (can never get it out of my head), but today, I thought we'd talk about fanon instead.

We're very, very lucky to have a fandom that is a positive treasure trove of amazing fic, but today is all about discussing the tropes that we find in pilotfic. To name just a few:

1. Academy!pilots (though there haven't been too many of these since Daybreak)
2. Lee has a stick up his ass
3. Flying is like frakking for pilots (my personal favourite**)
.....and many, many more.


Now here is the question, Shipper Nation: what are the tropes you observe in BSG fic, and what do you think of them? Got any favourites (ones bordering on being kinks, even)? Any tropes you avoid, either while writing your own fic, or which bug you while you're reading someone else's? Or even any theories on how they came about? Tell us all about it!

**

(and if anyone has examples of fics that employ a trope well, or use a much-disliked trope in a way that does justice to pilots, feel free to rec away!)

Comments

[wicked-sassy.livejournal.com]

The best trope I've seen in BSG fic is better than canon (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BetterThanCanon). BSG fic does a great job for me in filling in gaps for Kara and Lee's childhoods, in making Helo a fun sidekick/frakbuddy for Kara, explaining/ avoiding/ redoing the poof, and finding resolution for Kara and Lee. Kudos to all of the fabulous writers!

Btw, I love Academyfic. :) workerbee73's Borrowed Time (http://workerbee73.livejournal.com/8197.html) is a good one.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

omg I just finished Borrowed Time this weekend. Amazing, but it really did put me through the wringer.

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

**hands everyone cups of cocoa**

I do feel badly about that. (And OMG that fic was tropey. Like every fanon trope in the book. You could seriously play a drinking game. *g*)

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

**fistbump**

Thanks, bb. I think academyfic is kind of synonymous with fanon tropes, and I mean that in the best possible way. I love it too. :)

[wicked-sassy.livejournal.com]

SSWA!! :D

*fistbumps back*

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure there is such a thing as a bad trope. No seriously, I mean it. I think the trick is recognizing that it IS a trope and not being all... trope-y about it? :) Just have fun with it, be tongue in cheek about it and if possible, turn it one its head. Sometimes really tropey premises can work beautifully that way.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

True, most good fic authors recognise their tropes and it'd probably be impossible to write a fic without one considering how many of them canon ultimately deployed.

It's just that certain things, like babyfic (a common trope across all fandoms, though maybe not so much in this one) are a personal quibble of mine because they really don't seem to fit the people we know pilots to be. Or the whole 'Lee is a complete stick-in-the-mud, and Kara is totally and completely out of control' for no good reason. Or even completely weakening one of them (usually Kara) so the other one can 'fix' it...it all comes down to personal taste, I suppose.

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

Or the whole 'Lee is a complete stick-in-the-mud, and Kara is totally and completely out of control' for no good reason

I think those are definitely examples of tropes being employed perhaps badly (or maybe worse-- thoughtlessly). I always say that I'll go along for the ride on any story if the author sells it. If there a good reason why things are happening and characters are behaving the way they do.

And I think that applies to babyfic too. I know there was a pretty intense debate awhile back on that particular issue, and a lot of excellent points were raised, but I think even babyfic and even with pilots can work if the context works. And of course that is the hard part.

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

I always say that I'll go along for the ride on any story if the author sells it.

exactly. I managed to read fics that have all sorts of bad ideas and strange tropes in them but that as a whole were good because the author managed to express them in a convincing way. and then again, there are fics (more in other fandoms than here) that in theory sound very ok but the delivery is not really in sync with me.

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

I think you're spot on. It really all comes down to execution. Because they're really aren't all that many different stories to tell-- fic or original stuff, highbrow or lowbrow. They all share similar patterns and stories and such. The trick is to take those well-worn ideas and make them resonate, I think. Make them feel fresh and interesting and add something to the conversation.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

Oh, that is so true - context and execution are everything, and I've even come across a babyfic I liked once (the baby in question being the result of UB and held in captivity with Kara, who then had serious PTSD).

It's just that lazy trope use can be really annoying in a story that is otherwise good (one that I REALLY detest in all its forms is Kara feeling bad about her sexual history/feeling like she's not good enough for Lee because of it). I mean, yes of course both of them had serious problems with really giving themselves over to each other, but the idea that Kara placing Lee on some kind of pedestal and feeling like she's unworthy of him is just....I can't with it. I just don't get that vibe from any imaginable avatar of Kara, in canon or in a possible AU.

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

Are you talking about Ray's babyfic? I thought that one was very well executed too.

one that I REALLY detest in all its forms is Kara feeling bad about her sexual history/feeling like she's not good enough for Lee because of it

Agreed. Girl's got plenty of self-worth issues, but they don't stem from this. And I don't like it when K/L gets played as too much black/white opposites-- such as Kara the sexually experienced one and Lee the blushing virgin. I don't like anything that skirts along the edge of caricature.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

Yesss, that was it (http://tulipfic.livejournal.com/68736.html).

I can take the virgin!Lee thing if, again, the context works (for instance, a high school AU? Go for it!) but by and large I'd avoid that trope too, especially for adult pilots.

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

Oh yay! Thanks so much for linking. i couldn't find it.

[onlyariana.livejournal.com]

I'll go along for the ride on any story if the author sells it


Yes. There are no bad tropes. Just poorly (most often lazily) used tropes.

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

It's the lazy part that kills me. Just use those noggins, folks! :D

[deborah-judge.livejournal.com]

I am hugely fond of the fanon that Kara likes sex with strangers. And I do see it as fanonical - in canon she only has sex with four people, of which one was her husband, one was her fiancee, and the other two were friends. (I have mixed feelings about describing Baltar as a friend, but he was the person she chose to confide in about finding her body, which speaks to some trust and emotional connection.) But I like the fanon that she just likes sex and doesn't really mind who it's with.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

Oh, I'm on the edge about whether it's canon or fanon, depending on whether what Sam told Lee about her cheating on him on New Caprica is true.

It could really be either way, though I don't know whether trust or emotional connection are what is really on Kara's mind when she goes to Baltar with her tags and ring in Islanded, I always read it as more that she wants answers so badly that she didn't care who she had to ask - and I felt that it was easier for her to ask someone she wasn't close to, who could have the answers.

[deborah-judge.livejournal.com]

Recently I've been thinking about the other interpretation - that Kara really is fairly sexually conservative and marriage-oriented and that her relationships with Lee and Baltar were exceptions for various (completely different) reasons, and she just gets slut-shamed a lot and perceived as more promiscuous than she is because she's so gutsy and out there. I think you could spin canon that way if you wanted. And yeah, Sam would have all kinds of reasons to say what he said to Lee other than it being true.

This would be a very different interpretation of Kara from how I normally write her, which makes me wonder what it would look like.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

I have no trouble with the idea that Kara likes sex or that one-night stands are her MO, it could fit her character that she takes those things on her own terms (I detest the fact that she gets judged for that, though - admittedly, Lee and Sam had their own reasons for lashing out, and if you treat Sam's statement about her cheating on him during their marriage to be false it's even worse because he's accusing/judging Kara for something she hasn't even done). But yeah, it's an even split either way.

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

I kind of love this. I love it because it's the way I see her, and I like the distinction it makes-- that you can be a sexual creature and like sex WITHOUT SEXING IT UP WITH EVERYONE YOU SEE. So much of the time with women and sexuality it's an all-or-nothing game and that drives me up the wall. Dear Patricarchal Oppression: Take your madonna/whore dichotomy and shove it, thankyouverymuch. I'll take nuance and three-dimensional women over that any day. ;)

[winegums.livejournal.com]

YES TO THIS. I think that for Kara, sex isn't always linked to intimacy, it's just a fun thing to do, for the most part. Which is how I headsplain her ending up with Baltar after Colonial Day - she didn't hate herself the next day for sleeping with someone who wasn't Lee, she hated herself for sleeping with someone she didn't even like. (and the same goes for Lee's reaction to it)

EDIT: this is also why I detested Leoben's "cheap ambrosia and empty affairs" line to Kara so much. Who is a crackpot toaster to tell my Kara how she should be dealing with the aftereffects of parental abuse? GTFO and take your creepy hostage-taking dollhouse-imprisoning self with you.

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

I think it really speaks to the "male gaze" of the show itself-- that if a woman is sexual then she must sleep around a lot. grrrrrrrrrr. So annoying. >/

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't say that I'm fond of it. Actually as a principle I'm against this type of behavior BUT there are fics in which it makes a lot of sense and it just.... works.

[onlyariana.livejournal.com]

Didn't Hot Dog also say she'd frakked half the fleet in The Oath? Again, this may or may not be the truth but it is more than just Sam who has said something like that.

[pennyante.livejournal.com]

I'll also go along for just about any ride, if it's done well. I'm not that excited by: Gianne (canonically, she has more substance as a dream that Lee had for a day than as an actual person he actually knew), Kara's mother (defies my imagination to try to sympathize with her), or battle scenes against Cylons (though I love them canonically). But I've read fics with all of those that I like.

I love the "resolving things with Zak" trope. It's the great open wound of their relationship. In canon, they seem to decide that because Zak died and what happened before that is irrevocable, their "betrayal" is sort of irredeemable. I love fanon that takes it on. (I'm trying to even now! It's fun and hard!)

[winegums.livejournal.com]

I love the "resolving things with Zak" trope.

OMGYESSS me too! Though in some ways it almost felt like Zak took a backseat as a concern proper after Kara forgave herself for passing him, and in a way really became a major excuse they used to stay apart because they just couldn't deal with the idea of being together. Which is why I love it when fic resolves that problem for them.

(and agreed on the Gianne thing too. For what it's worth, I treat that part of Black Market as basically fanfiction with Gianne as a variety of Mary Sue - dead Mary Sue, to be sure, but Mary Sue nonetheless)

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

For what it's worth, I treat that part of Black Market as basically fanfiction with Gianne as a variety of Mary Sue - dead Mary Sue, to be sure, but Mary Sue nonetheless

LOL, I love it. In my mind, I imagine the writer's room when storyboarding Black Market as follows:



RDM: Hey guys! Wouldn't it be cool if Lee was all messed up in the head over some chick we've never heard of and we had a whole ep about it?

Everyone else: Cool! Let's do it!

Annoying disciple of logic in the corner: Okay..... but what does it all mean?


**CRICKETS**




((and really that's how i imagine most of season 3 and 4 went down as well. ;P)

[winegums.livejournal.com]

I love that it's so terrible that not a single person involved tries to pretend it isn't - from RDM down to Jamie, they've as good as disowned the final product.

(and what really makes it basically fanfic that happened to get written in the writers' room is this - you have an entire episode about the complicated love life of Lee Adama.....and it doesn't feature a single appearance by, or mention of, Kara Thrace. )

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

Not just fic, but crack!fic. *g*

[winegums.livejournal.com]

No one will ever be able to convince me otherwise.

Leaving one of my own here

[winegums.livejournal.com]

1. Pilots being attracted to each other but putting it aside to be friends first. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

2. Pilots going down on each other (never saw it in canon, but I love the frequency with which it turns up in fic)

3. All the cuddling, especially stealth!snuggles (possibly my favourite kind of trope in fic EVER, along with grief!sex).

[plaid-slytherin.livejournal.com]

Reading through all this is interesting and really highlights (surprise, surprise) that I really do ship K/L post-canon most of, if not all the time. So I guess my trope is undoing the poof somehow, since the vast majority of my K/L fics are post-canon. (I should probably try to expand somehow...)

[winegums.livejournal.com]

It's hard not to root for a post-canon reunion for them, especially since it's what I believe to be canon :)

[ninety6tears.livejournal.com]

The guilty UST between Kara and Lee during the relationship with Zak has always been a favorite (long before it became backed up by canon of course).
I love Kara having a frak buddy, especially if it's Helo. And occasionally that frak buddy having some awareness of her complicated feelings for Lee.
And DRUNK PILOTS.

[winegums.livejournal.com]

The guilty UST between Kara and Lee during the relationship with Zak has always been a favorite (long before it became backed up by canon of course).

Oh goodness YES!!! This was my head!canon for them from Day 1, no lie.

YES to ALL your favourite tropes, in fact (especially drunk pilots, I remember an especially cute one-shot that involved Lee getting drunk post-Hand of God and being ridiculously cute, and it is killing me that I can't remember the title or who it's by)

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

It's by thefannishwaldo Drunk and Disorderly (http://thefannishwaldo.livejournal.com/187152.html). :)

[winegums.livejournal.com]

yay, thank you for finding it - it's going straight into my memories this time :)

[ninety6tears.livejournal.com]

This was my head!canon for them from Day 1, no lie.
Absolutely. It was so affixed in my mind from the start I often was like "Wait, people actually think that they think of each other more like brother and sister? What?"

[winegums.livejournal.com]

There's certainly a sibling-ish vibe around them sometimes when they're both with PapAdama, but never when it's just the two of them.

(and I thought the guilty UST thing was a foregone conclusion right from the miniseries, if they hadn't seen each other since Zak's funeral and the brig that obviously meant there was something between them while he was still alive - and Lee's return from the dead just convinced me that it was mutual)