DPP: You Give Fic A Bad Name

[kl-shipper1.livejournal.com]

Hello, fellow pilots shippers! I'm kl_shipper1 and I'll be driving the DPP bus this week. This is my first time leading this thing, so bear with me.

I've been around fandoms long enough to see that there are certain genres of fic that have a reputation for being badfic-- for example, babyfic and songfic. So, my question for you all today is:

Why do these types of fic automatically get such a bad reputation? Is this the case in the BSG fandom? With pilots fic?

(Also, feel free to rec some fics that you feel are examples of these genres done well.)

Comments

[deborah-judge.livejournal.com]

I think babyfics get a bad reputation because there's a stereotype that they go something like: relationship problem + baby = problem solved. Which is a silly and also somewhat dangerous way of thinking about having children. Having said that, while I believe people when they say fics like that exist, I've never actually read any in this part of fandom. embolalia and kag523 have written babyfics that go more like: relationship problems + baby = MORE PROBLEMS! Which I like.

I think songfics get a bad reputation because music is so personal, and a song that feels deep to one person can feel WTF to another, or they might not recognize the song at all, so referencing a particular song might not have the desired effect on most readers. Having said that, I do fairly frequently write fics inspired by songs, and it seems to work fine if I pick the right song. But I find actual song lyrics in the story or as dialogue difficult to pull off well, unless you're very subtle about it. Or, y'know, writing the end of season 3.

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

My problem with babyfic for Kara and Lee is that there are only really two ways to write it: 1) AU/far future and fairly sweet/fluffy or 2) in-canon-times and really angsty.

Within canon, it's very difficult to write anything but the standard recipe: Kara accidentally gets preggers, is horrified at the thought of having a bb, can't kill it because it's Lee's, has the kid and feels great love but fear that she'll hurt it because of her mom, pushes Lee away in the midst of it all, then eventually she comes around for a happy ending with both baby and Lee. Almost all in-canon babyfic for them follows a variation of this, so it kind of bores me/is not my favorite.

Plus, even after Kacey, Kara in mom mode is not my preferred format.

I haven't seen very much songfic in BSG fandom at all, at least not the kind where someone writes a few lyrics of song, then a paragraph of fic, then more lyrics, etc. etc. And we have a lot of great writers so when there is a song inspiring a fic, it's usually pretty good.

[kl-shipper1.livejournal.com]

I think babyfics get a bad reputation because there's a stereotype that they go something like: relationship problem + baby = problem solved.

Definitely this. It's almost backwards in a way, because pilots (with all their baggage and problems) would = even more problems. It doesn't work often because so many people just use this as a magical handwave to make all the issues they don't want to solve go away.

I see what you mean about songfics. I think people try to use the lyrics as a crutch or to make their story seem longer and more substantial than it actually is. Often, my fics are also inspired by songs/song lyrics, but I think you're better off with inspiration rather than having them physically there.

[kl-shipper1.livejournal.com]

Almost all in-canon babyfic for them follows a variation of this, so it kind of bores me/is not my favorite.

Yeah, after a while that very formulaic approach gets tiring and seems to lessen the story because it's not original anymore.

I've also seen some people try to combine 1 & 2 to get sweet/fluffy, in-canon-times babyfic, which is what I think triggers a lot of the aversion to BSG babyfic. When authors try to do that, Kara and Lee stop coming off like them themselves (because when would it ever be that easy between the two of them), and the stories end up very OOC and become examples of babyfic = badfic. But of course that's not always the case-- there are many excellent fics that are babyfics as well as the not-so-good fics.

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

We're blessed with a lot of really good writers for this ship, so even when they do follow the formula, they aren't usually bad, just a bit tiresome/predictable. I prefer reading other kinds of stories for them.

[kl-shipper1.livejournal.com]

so even when they do follow the formula, they aren't usually bad, just a bit tiresome/predictable.

Definitely on LJ, but on FF.net I can't say the same. But that's pretty much to be expected with FF.net.

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah I meant LJ. I seldom venture onto FF.net

[kl-shipper1.livejournal.com]

Oh, I figured that's what you meant. FF.net is a mixed bag-- there's some good stuff on there, but you have to wade through the bad to get to it. I think overall there's a lot less bad K/L fic on both sites than most fandoms & pairings, though, so it's not that bad, even on FF.net.

[kl-shipper1.livejournal.com]

Very true. I think that's why when I read a lot of those stories, pilots seem very OOC, Kara in particular. All I can think about is how something like this never would have happened in the show because Kara had always made her thoughts concerning children very clear, and she wouldn't have such a complete change of mind that quickly.

I have seen good babyfic, but every one I can think of involved a long, angsty road where Kara and Lee had to deal with their own individual and joint issues (kag523's Si Vis Amari comes to mind). I get irrated when authors try to jump over the hard work and get to the happy ending, which ends up separating their characters from the ones I love. It's a slippery slope, but it can be done.

[n-e-star.livejournal.com]

The thing with baby fic - in any fandom - is the danger that the story becomes all about the baby and not about the character that people are interested in.

[kl-shipper1.livejournal.com]

Good point. Like I've said before, it also irks me when people change the characters in order to make it seem like a situation these characters would actually find themselves in, instead of a situation the author wants them to be in, but is not true to the characters at all. Often, these two things come hand in hand, and it's usually a recipe for disaster.

[rayruz.livejournal.com]

I completely get that... it was an issue I tried to tackle when I wrote my babyfic... which was more of a psychological fix-it on how Kara's NewCap trauma was never dealt with.

[apodixis.livejournal.com]

Oh baby!fic... I have a love/hate relationship with them, but I will reiterate some earlier sentiments by other people that most of what I've seen in the BSG universe handles it pretty well. I think in some other fandoms you get much younger writers and their fics get painted in the light they see it.

I have my own baby!fic in the works but honestly I've been completely holding back because I know how people usually receive it, and I don't want it to just be "ugh another crappy baby!fic with the same ideas." Whether I'll ever actually post it or not...I don't know.

[n-e-star.livejournal.com]

The best baby fic I ever read was in The West Wing fandom and had several chapters where the new parents deal with how their life is changing and their friends don't know how to relate to them anymore. It was wonderfully in character and awesome.

[n-e-star.livejournal.com]

The BSG solution for trauma seems to be: get drunk, beat the shit out of something/someone, forget the event ever happened.

Honestly, I think Balter talking to the voices in his head has the best coping mechanism of anyone.

[kl-shipper1.livejournal.com]

The name does sound familiar to me. I will put in on my (re)read later list!

[kl-shipper1.livejournal.com]

I second this!

[rachelmack.livejournal.com]

I don't know about everyone else, but I hate babyfic in general because, at the sociological level, it caters to (and reinforces) that saccharine patriarchal assumption of having babies/family as the ultimate life-goal and/or the only source of TRUE happiness. Pilots are in love, sure, but they're not going to be TRULY HAPPY until they have Little Pilots (with her hair and his eyes and his brains and her bravery), no matter how out of character it is. I particularly resent the implication that Kara needs to "soften" herself, with being a mommy (gag) to become "whole" and/or "healed." The general impulse to de-badass Starbuck - Viper Jock and defender of humanity extraordinaire - and shove her barefoot and pregnant into the kitchen (proverbially) against her oft-stated will gives me hives.

Women are individuals, and not all aspire to motherhood, and forcing characters into that kind of box against their almost necessarily leads to bad fic.

[wicked-sassy.livejournal.com]

THIS. You are fabulous, rachelmack!

[requialexa.livejournal.com]

Only if you have all the babies together....

[rachelmack.livejournal.com]

Even if I left out an entire word in my rant? Sure!

["and forcing characters into that kind of box against their NATURE almost necessarily leads to bad fic."

[rachelmack.livejournal.com]

Thank you! *Marxist-Feminist Solidarity Fistbump* (Awesome icon!)

[rachelmack.livejournal.com]

Hee.

[rayruz.livejournal.com]

....what about women who have all sorts of life aspirations but STILL WANT BABIES.

Seriously. I have gotten weird looks from telling women I want to be a mom. Babyfic caters to this interest in my life. So yes, it's like a little wish fulfillment.

ETA: Your argument about babyfic is like saying writing hetfic in general reinforces the homophobic assumption of a heteronormative society.

[wicked-sassy.livejournal.com]

Fellow feminist fans are fabulous! (Feel free to steal the icon if you want.)