No Takebacks

Hmm, maybe if Sharon did not nick the cylon ridder from in front the Delphi museum in the first place, Kara would have never met the future Mr. Thrace. I always wondered why Sharon did it and how could Helo say that Sharon saved Starbuck on Caprica, when it was her fault that Kara got stuck there.

I do not hate Sam. He is genuinely easy-going and extremely likable. I can not blame Kara for falling for him, everybody seems to get along with him just fine. I like him during the NC occupation and in many other (mostly non-Kara) scenes, but I totally agree with you that bringing him back ruined some of the dynamic we already had on the show. I hated when Sam decided to join the military because I felt like he was kind of stealing Apollo's life. He and Lee looked so much alike and now Sam was even wearing flight suit, dog tags and double tanks. I was glad that at least he never become any good at piloting as far as I know.

The writer's clearly did not know what to to with Andres and kept teasing us with his early departure:
- Simon said to Kara that Sam was dead in Farm
- Kara leaving him on Caprica
- Sam catching pneumonia
- Kara repeatedly telling Sam to leave her between Exodus and Maelstrom
- Sam cylon/Kara back from death: how can there be a relationship?
- Sam being shot

I liked Sam but when he caught the bullet in the head during the mutiny, I was extremely happy. I felt like now with Dee and Sam dead, we will finally see some Kara/Lee goodness. Little I knew that that incident actually ruined any chance of that. I really wish Sam had the decency to not to survive the shooting. I can not blame Kara for trying to take care of him, especially after all the shit she put him through during their marriage, but I just hated the whole Sam in the goo bath and Kara being there for him.

To be fair to Sam, I am pretty sure that even if he died earlier on, Kara would have found some other poor moron (stupid enough to get along with it) to marry and use as a shield from Lee.

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apollosspear.livejournal.com

Well this little tidbit sealed the deal for me as far as the writers and rdm go. SAM WAS SUPPOSED TO DIE IN HIS SECOND EPISODE. In the "Last Frakkin Special" the actor that plays Anders (I willingly forgot his name lol) says that he was supposed to die and that rdm liked how the actors got along inbetween shoots and the majority of the fans (us) HATED Anders, hated that he was coming between Kara and Lee so he decided to keep him. I take that as a big FU middle finger to the Kara/Lee shippers.

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The writer's clearly did not know what to to with Andres and kept teasing us with his early departure

Honestly, I think in the writers were worried about the actor's departure, i.e. getting another job espceially at the end of S2 and before S4, so they wrote little outs. ;)

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To be fair to Sam, I am pretty sure that even if he died earlier on, Kara would have found some other poor moron (stupid enough to get along with it) to marry and use as a shield from Lee.

yes, I think that you are right when you say this. but sincerely i never thought of Sam as a life stealer. and I don't know if i can say that Sam joining the Fleet had anything to do with Lee but had a lot to do with Kara.
I'm ashamed to say that i don't recall exactly the moment that he started flying but for me him flying and Lee giving up his wings were always sort of linked with Maelstorm - like an opposite reaction to the same think.

and personally I like Sam. he is ok and without all the problems surrounding the QoD I believe that he and Lee would have been friends.

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i never thought of Sam as a life stealer. and I don't know if i can say that Sam joining the Fleet had anything to do with Lee but had a lot to do with Kara.

I totally agree. He joined the fleet so he could move on to Galactica and be closer to Kara (at least I think). It had nothing to do with Lee. It's just that I was so used to seeing Lee and Kara both in flight suits and suddenly there were so many of the promo and DVD cover pictures with Sam and Kara in the pilot outfits. Just thought that making Sam a viper jock was such an unoriginal idea and made him kind of look like Apollo.

I like Sam as a person a lot, just don't like most of his story arcs. It is rare to see a sport star being so easy-going and no-bullshit guy.

From: (Anonymous)

So say we all! I can't stand the guy either... him and Dee. Both of them should have been long gone from the show. What the writers did with them and throwing at Kara and Lee was just frakking ridiculous.

All the other points you have brought up... I couldn't agree with you more.

Oh... The other thing I was wanted to add is the whole 'Black Market'/'Gianne' storyline. Hated that one too... especially at what they have done to the Lee character there.

Argh... Wish I had the ability to just 'erase' everything bad there on the show.

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adamas.livejournal.com

Lee wouldn't let her fly in Maelstrom! Even with him flying her wing!

Zak wouldn't have woken up on the couch the night they met!

Kara wouldn't have left in the morning after the ceremony and gotten married!

(In slightly-less Piloty issues, I think Lee should have gone on the Demetrius with her, if that story totally had to happen, and Gaeta and Sam both should have stayed behind so that there wasn't freaking drama and danger and we would've had a blast watching Kara/Lee and Helo and Sharon out on their own!).

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Zak wouldn't have woken up on the couch the night they met!

... or maybe he would have woken up but lifted his head a bit more to check the damage

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Just wanted to say, I love your icon :)

And I totally second the idea of Lee going along on the Demetrius, I never understood the point of dragging that arc out as long as it went.

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I always wondered if Papadama accidentally walking on pilots making-out in the storage room (just before the Algae Planet) would make any difference.

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callmeonetrack.livejournal.com

It's hard to choose, because everything shapes who pilots are but it's hard not to want to wish away the double punch of Socrata being an awful abusive mom and Zak not dying. I am conflicted though because it would mean Kara would be totally different, probably much more well adjusted, but potentially less...impressive? Less epic/larger-than-life badass and more normal well adjusted viper jock?

Ah here's my big one from canon:
They never would have went back for the resistance members on Caprica. Thus they also would not have found New Caprica when doing so. I wanted the show's focus to stay on the ragtag fleet on their journey to find Earth. The show changed for me at Downloaded and never really recovered.

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Def. agreed on Socrata, because what Kara faced later in life (war, guilt, heartbreak) was bad enough on its own without stuff from her childhood screwing her up too.

But about Zak....if he hadn't died, she might very well have married him. While still having the epic, dangerous, unavoidable connection with Lee. And if that isn't a recipe for angst and guilt and all-round frakkedupness (because I really do believe she loved him) I don't know what is.

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callmeonetrack.livejournal.com

Yes, I tend to think Kara and Lee would still not be able to stay away from each other, marriage or not. I'm not sure how it would play out. I'd like to think that without the crazy childhood baggage, she might come to her senses and break up with Zak in a normal fashion then later get together with Lee. It happens in real life sometimes.

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I kind of thought that we would have seen some kind of a variation on UB. Sometime prior to the wedding, Kara and Lee would have clashed had sex and admitted they love each other. After that Kara would have ran away either to marry Zak or she would have ran away from both of them.

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They never would have went back for the resistance members on Caprica. Thus they also would not have found New Caprica when doing so. I wanted the show's focus to stay on the ragtag fleet on their journey to find Earth.

I can understand the fleet jumping at the chance to settle on New Caprica, but I never understood the logic behind going back for what 50 survivors on one planet. What a potentially disastrous waste of resources. ugh.

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lizziec

What I've never understood is why they went back for those 50 and once it was established that the Cylons had left the colonies they never went back to look for any more survivors on Caprica or any of the other colonies (if there were survivors on Caprica it stands to reason that at least a few people survived on each of the other 11 colonies).

I may be overthinking though.

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Seriously, the more I think about it the decision to go back to Caprica is kind of the turning point in at least the more linear drive towards Earth/flee the cylons storyline that made me fall in love with the series in the first place.

There would definitely have been survivors on the other colonies. And survivors from those colonies should have been furious that their home worlds were ignored for the almighty Caprica and a frakking pyramid player,

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There would definitely have been survivors on the other colonies. And survivors from those colonies should have been furious that their home worlds were ignored for the almighty Caprica and a frakking pyramid player,

that's a very good point.

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lizziec

They never would have went back for the resistance members on Caprica. Thus they also would not have found New Caprica when doing so. I wanted the show's focus to stay on the ragtag fleet on their journey to find Earth.

Oh, I'm liking this one. Not going back for the people on Caprica would have changed so much, in such interesting ways. I'd have loved to see how Kara's residual guilt over that would have played out and where S3 would have gone without so much of it being taken up with NC/fallout from NC. Also no Anders=no quad of doom, and no safe choice for Kara to run to and marry if she got scared.

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your ideal world seems very interesting. and yes, especially when you speak about Socrata. I would wish a normal childhood for Kara but would she still be Starbuck then?
but the idea about Zak is a solid one.

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I think the single change I'd make, if it came down to that, would be the outcome of Lee and Kara's conversation in TAB to make Kara's point about leaving Sam just that bit clearer to Lee and make Lee actually take her up on it. End all the pointless angst and stop with the lies, because if you really loved your wife and weren't hopelessly in love with another woman, would you and said other woman be eyefrakking each other across a bar as she reunites with her husband?

I'm not sure what it'd change, really - at best, the outcome of Maelstrom might change because I don't think it's a coincidence that Kara started having those dreams and being haunted by the mandala at a time not that long after her affair with Lee ended, but at the very least pilots might have been together for a little while without guilt over their partners/Zak. I wish they'd had that, towards the end it actually looked like they could get there but then she has to go poof.

Actually, come to think of it I wouldn't have Kara go poof. We got the message, her return from the dead is probably supernatural and not within the bounds of logic. It doesn't NEED to be hammered home by having her vanish into thin air.

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Or if Kara had left Sam anyway, even when Lee hesitates in TAB.

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well, that would have been nice to see. and I think that soon after that Lee would have left Dee.

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requialexa.livejournal.com

Actually, come to think of it I wouldn't have Kara go poof. We got the message, her return from the dead is probably supernatural and not within the bounds of logic. It doesn't NEED to be hammered home by having her vanish into thin air.

Can I have this on a T-shirt?

But seriously. Yes.

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I was thinking recently about what would happen if Kara had ended up with Lee instead of Baltar after the Colonial Day celebration. Would Kara have gone back to Caprica at all? While the obvious shipper result is that she wouldn't have met Sam. She also wouldn't have found the arrow and opened the Tomb of Athena nor would Helo and Sharon returned to the fleet with her. I don't know where it goes after that, but it would definitely continue to ripple.

And one of my favorites that doesn't necessarily change much for a while is what if Kara went back to Caprica to find Sam and found him dead? During most of S2 its easy to see Kara's obsession with Sam as an escape instead of real love affair so not being able to save him would send her into a tailspin and re-enforce her fear that loving her caused death, Sam's and Zak, keeping her away from Lee in a less contrived manner. I still think it's possible, likely even, that Kara would use New Caprica as a way to put distance between herself and Lee. I find it less likely that Lee would marry Dee without Kara marrying Sam. So after the exodus from New Caprica and Kara's escape from Leoben in the dollhouse, it's Lee who is left to help her pick up the pieces without the complication of spouses. :)

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I think this would have been an interesting twist to have - Sam actually WAS nothing more than a plot device to keep pilots apart for the most part, or at least started out that way. And yes, it would have been a lot less pointless than the QoD to have Kara muster out anyway, even without him.

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I'm with you 200% on the first part. every time that i get annoyed with that whole thing (getting in bed with Baltar and the following fight) I think that ashe would have not went to Caprica, so no Arrow, no Tomb, no Helo&Athena and so on.

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It is hard for me to think about these big what-ifs (like not finding New Caprica or Kara not dying), because they change the whole story completely and my brain just has hard time processing all the possibilities. If I could make a few tiny tiny changes, that would not change the outcome of the overall story, I would give the pilots some quality time between mutiny and Daybreak. Just the two of them sharing nights on Colonial One for a short period of time, having a private uncomplicated relationship. They both seem to be so nice and supportive towards each other around that time. They were both also pretty lonely (especially Kara) and I did not understand why they did not spend anytime together, even if only as friends.

Also Kara saying to Lee "I love you but you have to let me go" just before her ship explodes into Maelstrom would have been a nice touch.

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I would give the pilots some quality time between mutiny and Daybreak.

Oh, YES. Seriously, what was up with that, it's not as if anything would have changed with the outcome. It's just weird that they hardly saw each other between the mutiny and THAT scene in Islanded In A Stream of Stars.

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