No Takebacks

Zak's character seemed open and confident to me. I mean, even though he knows he's not perfect at what he's chosen to do (and okay that, because either he wants to make his father proud or to be more like his big brother) he sticks at it. Also there does not seem to be any competition in him where Lee's concerned when 'Lee is the perfect soldier'. The way he seems to have been written suggests that he idolizes Lee as much as he does Kara; and therefore I'd always figured he'd have told Kara as much as he could about Lee just through enthusiasm. That said, Kara doesn't seem to know that much about their mother's issues after Bill left, so I wonder if there were somethings he'd kept to himself; or if Kara with her own issues kept silent about what she might have known about Lee through Zak later on.
With regards to Zak sharing stuff about Kara with Lee, I'd more think that due to the way Kara's created, her nature might have only been to show Zak her best sides. I get the impression that Zak was one of the first good things to happen to her and that she was doing her best to be her best and keep it that way (or at least hide as much as she could from Zak). Through that, I'm figuring she might not have shared to much of her past in the first place. And maybe also, in duty to her, Zak might have been less forthcoming and only shared details like her skills, her sense of humour eg.
Okay, so I just kept on writing above :) Hope its not too rambling.

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her nature might have only been to show Zak her best sides

I think this is really true. Although Kara is likely a slightly less messed up person before the guilt of Zak's death is added on to everything, I think she woudl be very protective of how he saw her and not want to disillusion him.

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That's a good point - I don't figure she would've been quite as bad either.

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And I think quite genuinely, Kara would have been more mellowed with Zak. He gave her hope that she was something other than a screw up. And then everything fell apart, probably starting with meeting Lee and having a whole different kind of chemistry with Lee than she did Zak, something more dangerous and intense, likely leading to her inability to fail him.

(Ugh, now I have to quite talking about this scene before I get angry. hee.)

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lol *holds up hands* I won't fire up the beast XD
(Quietly - I agree, that scene works in someways but not in others. For there are the mandala paintings and the good conversation about Lee's relationship with his father. It's nice to see Kara and Zak happy and also the flirting between K/L is good but as you say, it paves the way for upset later. Pilots!).

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lol, really it just feels like a retcon the familiarity between Kara and Lee in the mini and S1 and the relationship between Kara and Zak in AoC. It's not irreconcilable, but it doesn't jive right for me for so many reasons that ulitimately I end up frustrated and annoyed, well and kind of angry. ;)

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Okay, really not gonna rouse that ;)
It is a very confused scene that doesn't feel honest. Be soothed. Think about 'striking another superior asshole,' maybe scene instead; or fights with water hoses :)

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It is a very confused scene that doesn't feel honest.

And this is the entirity of my issue. There's something inherently dishonest about this scene that I can discuss very rationally but at the same time it makes with boil at the way TPTB felt they needed to treat Kara, Lee and their relationship in the end.

See not ragey at all. ;)

Edited Date: 2011-08-14 06:18 pm (UTC)

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*sob* I won't make it worse, but poor Kara, she really did meet the wrong brother first - Katee or Ron or whoever said that had that much right.

And I agree, Kara and Lee's chemistry IS of the dangerous and intense kind - in canon, we see two people who are everything to each other and their romance is that much more epic and memorable because of it, but the raw sexual chemistry, that existed from the moment they set eyes on each other, before they got to be best friends, teammates, family, colleagues. On some level, it is scary and I'm not surprised Kara and Lee acted as they did.

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And the thing I think this scene comes closest to succeeding at is setting up that instant chemistry. :D

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callmeonetrack.livejournal.com

One thing that I wondered about...did Kara never see a picture of Lee before she opened the door? They have that lovely physical jolt of recognition, would that have happened if they'd seen pictures of each other beforehand? Was it a physical attraction or an energy between them? Or both?

I'm mostly so curious about the timeline in this ep. How long have Kara and Zak been together. Because that would change a lot. The implication is that maybe they live together at this stage. Which, you'd think Lee and Kara might know each other by now or at least heard a lot about each other, but Kara does seem a bit in the dark--conventions of trying to show the first meeting I suppose.

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christ-chexx-4u.livejournal.com

you know, ive seen several people say this, but i never really got the impression that zak and kara were living together. i mean yeah, theyre all having dinner at the same place, but it was never really stated or even implied that they both lived there. i dunno. i could be wrong. but its like you said, if they were living together already i feel like she would have HAD to have met lee at some point or another. then again we dont really know what his schedule was like, whether he had the time to come and visit whenever he wanted.

UGH. TOO MANY QUESTIONS NOT ENOUGH ANSWERS!! just like always with this show.

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lizziec

I kind of assumed they were living together because Zak comes out of the bedroom when Lee arrives, and that's where Kara helps him to after Lee leaves. It felt like there was an expectation that Zak was staying there before and staying there after too. That's my take on that bit anyway.

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That's what I thought, too - that either they were living together or (if Zak had to maintain 'official' residence in the students' quarters at flight school, what with it being a military place and all) he might as well be living with her/he spent most nights there.

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I don't know whether they were actually living together, or whether it was just a case of Zak spending most nights at her place. Also, if Zak's a cadet at a military academy (which I guess flight school is, if it's training Viper pilots), he'd probably be required to live on-campus, at least officially.

Given that Kara's romances seem to start pretty quickly (I mean, look at Sam. And when it did get going with Lee they went 0-60 before putting on the brakes), I'd guess it might have been the same with Zak. So maybe not much time had passed, but she and Zak were already going fairly steady? I'm only guessing.

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rachelindeed.livejournal.com

My impression has always been that they knew almost nothing about each other, and that that was very deliberate on Zak's part.

In the little deleted scene between Zak and Kara that they filmed for this episode, she asks him to tell her "just one intimate detail" about his brother, since up to now he's only told her that he's "a good guy." So that's practically nil on her end.

I also got the impression that Zak has been keeping Kara very much to himself up until this point (RDM says that there's been a recent rift between the brothers and some tension over "girlfriend-stealing," which I find stupid and demoralizing, but there it is). RDM also says that Zak and Kara have just gotten engaged, though that's not established in the dialogue so I guess you can take that or leave it. But I think the intention was to show that Zak now felt okay about introducing his girlfriend to Lee because he felt secure about their relationship, they were more committed, and Lee wouldn't be any kind of competition at this point.

Sigh.

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They're already engaged in that scene? That makes no sense, if Zak was referring to her to Lee as his girlfriend and not his fiancee....oh RDM, you and your canon fail.

But the bit about Zak and Kara being fairly established in their relationship, that does make sense that Zak would wait till things were more stable and committed with Kara before taking a major step like introducing her to his brother.

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lizziec

oh RDM, you and your canon fail.

I find it helps if you repeat to yourself that whatever isn't in the show is not canon - he can talk about episodes as much as he likes but if it doesn't exist on film it doesn't exist. Then you can safely ignore all of his "hey, I just thought of this cool thing... Let me tell you what I was thinking of when I did X, Y and Z".

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if it doesn't exist on film it doesn't exist.

YES, that is a very good motto to go by when it comes to BSG. On one hand, I'm grateful to the man for giving us this show and its characters, but cannot help but be annoyed at him for frakking around with them just because he could *angryface*

PS: I like the face Kara's making in your icon - v. appropriate in a post talking about the test of patience that is RDM.

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lizziec

Thanks :) I adore that scene in the mini - Katee is so expressive and that expression captures so much :)

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I remember one of the podcasts/interviews where someone said that if you wrote a line of subtext into the script, it was right there on Katee's face during filming. And she really is amazing :)

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damao2010.livejournal.com

I'm not really sure why people tend to think Kara and Zac were living together (or engaged)when she met Lee. Apparently, she didn't know a lot about him when they first met. There's a deleted scene from DB1 where she asks Zac to tell her something about his brother before he shows up for dinner. I think if she had been going out with him for a long time she would know more about him even if she had never met him in person.

Thanks to Dave and is amazing Pilotography that scene is available for everyone to see and enjoy.

http://pilotography.yolasite.com/daybreak---part-1.php

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oooh, thank you for that! And yes, if they'd been going out for a long time it would make sense for Kara to know a little bit more about Lee even before they met, but maybe they just got into it really fast? (if Zak was already staying over/practically living with her)

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onlyariana.livejournal.com

I kind of just assumed that Zak was a guy and like many guys doesn't think it's important to describe people to others. I think the deleted scene says it all. He'd told Kara that Lee was his brother and that he was a "good guy". What more does she need to know? I'd guess it was the same on the other end too.

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