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no_takebacksI don't know about you guys, but I tend to do a lot of backreading in people's journals and at ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
beyond_insane and sasa_hq when I'm in need of a good old-fashioned pilots fix. Now that canon is over (and with the way it ended so poorly for our main peeps), our enjoyment of the show tends to be more fanon-based than canon-based. But it's really nice every now and again to go back and see what some real-time canon-based squeeing looked like.
To that end, I came across this in-depth recap/post of the raptor scene in EOJ posted by![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
daybreak777 a few weeks ago and it made me so joyful to read, that I asked permission if I could post it here, for nostalgia's sake. Feel free to discuss this scene (and maybe whether or not infideliciousness works for you? I know a lot of the older crew stopped watching at the s2/s3 break for many reasons, but not liking the Quad of Doom and thinking K/L were jerks in it was a big one), or share some other vintage posts that make you gleeful.
Fromdaybreak777, originally posted here at sasa_hq
My favorite scene? At first there, I thought, there are so many! But I think it was Eye of Jupiter. I know, I liked the quadrangle, sue me!
The raptor scene was my favorite. It was like fan fiction come to life, all I ever could want from them at that time. Because my friends, it was hot.
I think the scene got to me because it was a surprise. Last we saw, they were hugging saying, “I mished you” and then people were hungry and radiation-exposed. Our pilots were last seen handing out white cards during briefings like a kickass tag team. Someone had died and he was watching out for Kara in the background. That was it.
Next thing we know Kara is landing a raptor with that damnable smirk of hers talking about barrel rolls looking sweaty and hotter than ever. (Came in a little hot indeed. ;-) ) She just pauses and Lee gives her this look, raw and naked. Every single thing I ever wanted Lee to say to her aloud is in that look. That look alone was worth this scene to me. (Favorite part #1.) Looks like he wants to strip her naked, do her right there. I remember feeling surprised, thinking, Dayum, Lee!
But then, (and dudes, I didn’t even have to rewatch the scene for this post, it’s all imprinted on my brain. And heart.) he takes her in his arms and there is stripping off flight suits and kissing. SO MUCH KISSING. And I remember my heart pounding, shipper bells and whistles going off, thinking, “Oh my God, they are kissing. Don’t let it stop!” Good kisses too. The kind of kisses of people who can’t keep their hands off each other, who have tried and have given up the ghost of trying. At all. I was surprised at Kara. She seemed to be just going for it, not at all the frightened, unsure woman of UB. I didn’t care about spouses or algae or any of that. I only wondered if the door to the raptor was open. ;-)
Then they cut away and I thought, 'Okay, they’ll talk now. We got some kisses. Good.’ But NO. We come back and they were still kissing! That was it for me. All this kissing had continued. Surely they’ve accepted that they have to be together and that it’s ridiculous that they are apart. Lee even voiced this. Things were bad, right? Let’s tell everyone. (Lee, poor Lee, did that work before? This let’s tell everyone. Shut up and more kissing! Until she’s breathless. I forgive him because he can’t stop touching her. Sigh.)
Then Kara looks all adorable and confused and says something unintelligible about religion. All I hear is that she is not saying no to him. She still wants you, Lee! She just wants you both.
Then comes my favorite, favorite part. (Favorite Part #2) The part when he leans his forehead on hers and goes, “Every time. Every time.” Then they just . . . breathe. They are both totally lost. This is NOT THE FIRST TIME. OMG! There had been more kissing incidents. Excellent. And they can’t stop. OMG.
Then Lee breaks my heart and tears himself away from her. Tears himself, you can see, almost hear the rip of Velcro as he does it, they were that together. NOOOO!!!!!!! He just keeps saying he can’t, he can’t, he can’t.
Poor Lee. He really can’t. Except he already is cheating and has been since the moment he married Dee but no matter. He has his principles. To go against them would break something in him. And then comes favorite part number three! Kara ACTUALLY HEARS HIM. She gets this little broken look on her face, but she accepts it. She won’t push him. She knows what it would do if she made him give up his principles. She doesn’t want to do that to him. Doesn’t want him at all costs. I had expected her to get mad and storm out. But she didn’t. She can’t. She still wants him. Badly. Can’t be without him. Can’t be with him. Can’t be selfish and break him because then she’d lose the part of him she loves, the part she feels is clean and good and so unlike her. She finally understands him and accepts it and doesn’t walk away. This is so huge for her; I lose my ability to be articulate about it.
“So I won’t divorce and you won’t cheat. Where does that leave us?”
“Trapped.”
Awesome! Trapped together in love and lust. I LOVE this scene with the passion and heat of all things hot and passionate. It’s amazing I could even type this up without dying of pure squee all over again. I just love the moments when they are actually on the same page and really hear each other. I long for it so and it happens so rarely. For them to really understand and accept one another. For them to stay. And for long, slow, wet kisses that last through cutting away, maybe even a commercial break. Sigh. Does anyone not love this scene?
beyond_insane and sasa_hq when I'm in need of a good old-fashioned pilots fix. Now that canon is over (and with the way it ended so poorly for our main peeps), our enjoyment of the show tends to be more fanon-based than canon-based. But it's really nice every now and again to go back and see what some real-time canon-based squeeing looked like. To that end, I came across this in-depth recap/post of the raptor scene in EOJ posted by
daybreak777 a few weeks ago and it made me so joyful to read, that I asked permission if I could post it here, for nostalgia's sake. Feel free to discuss this scene (and maybe whether or not infideliciousness works for you? I know a lot of the older crew stopped watching at the s2/s3 break for many reasons, but not liking the Quad of Doom and thinking K/L were jerks in it was a big one), or share some other vintage posts that make you gleeful. From
daybreak777, originally posted here at sasa_hqMy favorite scene? At first there, I thought, there are so many! But I think it was Eye of Jupiter. I know, I liked the quadrangle, sue me!
The raptor scene was my favorite. It was like fan fiction come to life, all I ever could want from them at that time. Because my friends, it was hot.
I think the scene got to me because it was a surprise. Last we saw, they were hugging saying, “I mished you” and then people were hungry and radiation-exposed. Our pilots were last seen handing out white cards during briefings like a kickass tag team. Someone had died and he was watching out for Kara in the background. That was it.
Next thing we know Kara is landing a raptor with that damnable smirk of hers talking about barrel rolls looking sweaty and hotter than ever. (Came in a little hot indeed. ;-) ) She just pauses and Lee gives her this look, raw and naked. Every single thing I ever wanted Lee to say to her aloud is in that look. That look alone was worth this scene to me. (Favorite part #1.) Looks like he wants to strip her naked, do her right there. I remember feeling surprised, thinking, Dayum, Lee!
But then, (and dudes, I didn’t even have to rewatch the scene for this post, it’s all imprinted on my brain. And heart.) he takes her in his arms and there is stripping off flight suits and kissing. SO MUCH KISSING. And I remember my heart pounding, shipper bells and whistles going off, thinking, “Oh my God, they are kissing. Don’t let it stop!” Good kisses too. The kind of kisses of people who can’t keep their hands off each other, who have tried and have given up the ghost of trying. At all. I was surprised at Kara. She seemed to be just going for it, not at all the frightened, unsure woman of UB. I didn’t care about spouses or algae or any of that. I only wondered if the door to the raptor was open. ;-)
Then they cut away and I thought, 'Okay, they’ll talk now. We got some kisses. Good.’ But NO. We come back and they were still kissing! That was it for me. All this kissing had continued. Surely they’ve accepted that they have to be together and that it’s ridiculous that they are apart. Lee even voiced this. Things were bad, right? Let’s tell everyone. (Lee, poor Lee, did that work before? This let’s tell everyone. Shut up and more kissing! Until she’s breathless. I forgive him because he can’t stop touching her. Sigh.)
Then Kara looks all adorable and confused and says something unintelligible about religion. All I hear is that she is not saying no to him. She still wants you, Lee! She just wants you both.
Then comes my favorite, favorite part. (Favorite Part #2) The part when he leans his forehead on hers and goes, “Every time. Every time.” Then they just . . . breathe. They are both totally lost. This is NOT THE FIRST TIME. OMG! There had been more kissing incidents. Excellent. And they can’t stop. OMG.
Then Lee breaks my heart and tears himself away from her. Tears himself, you can see, almost hear the rip of Velcro as he does it, they were that together. NOOOO!!!!!!! He just keeps saying he can’t, he can’t, he can’t.
Poor Lee. He really can’t. Except he already is cheating and has been since the moment he married Dee but no matter. He has his principles. To go against them would break something in him. And then comes favorite part number three! Kara ACTUALLY HEARS HIM. She gets this little broken look on her face, but she accepts it. She won’t push him. She knows what it would do if she made him give up his principles. She doesn’t want to do that to him. Doesn’t want him at all costs. I had expected her to get mad and storm out. But she didn’t. She can’t. She still wants him. Badly. Can’t be without him. Can’t be with him. Can’t be selfish and break him because then she’d lose the part of him she loves, the part she feels is clean and good and so unlike her. She finally understands him and accepts it and doesn’t walk away. This is so huge for her; I lose my ability to be articulate about it.
“So I won’t divorce and you won’t cheat. Where does that leave us?”
“Trapped.”
Awesome! Trapped together in love and lust. I LOVE this scene with the passion and heat of all things hot and passionate. It’s amazing I could even type this up without dying of pure squee all over again. I just love the moments when they are actually on the same page and really hear each other. I long for it so and it happens so rarely. For them to really understand and accept one another. For them to stay. And for long, slow, wet kisses that last through cutting away, maybe even a commercial break. Sigh. Does anyone not love this scene?
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no subject
Date: 2011-08-04 01:33 pm (UTC)So here's the thing about infidelicious pilots, THEY ARE SO FRIGGIN HOT! Yes, it's wrong and bad and unfair, but . . . HOTTTTTTTT!
And trying to imagine a way around the canon story is like swimming upstream without arms for me so I pretty much will take whatever happy I can get where pilots are concerned. And truthfully, it's really not like Sam & Dee didn't know what they were getting themselves into here. They knew, especially Dee (for who I have zero sympathy), that their marriages might not mean forever in the uncertain world that they lived in.
I see Dee/Sam as both looking at their respective partners in the vein of "I love you so much and I want you forever but I don't know that your connection is quite so strong but I'll take it for as long as I can get it (which I believe Dee pretty much says outright)' and so . . . whatever, Raptor out-making is A-OK to me.
I definitely don't see Lee as a jerk here. Kara, maybe a little more, but her jerkish-ness comes from a place of trying to stay on the right side of her beliefs (in a totally cockeyed way, I admit) and I think most times the intention behind peoples actions matters much more than the surface level morality of those actions themselves (especially in fiction where I just want out-making pilots damn it!).
My hatred for real life cheating is rivaled only by my hatred for the cheesy motivational posters that litter my office and I truly believe it is never (OK, almost never) OK . . . except here, where it is. Cuz . . . ya know . . . HOTTTTTTT!
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Date: 2011-08-04 02:37 pm (UTC)Plus the scene is so damn smoking. The way he rips the suit down and skims his hands up her body, whoooo. And their faces right before the kissing starts. And the tongues. And the slooooow slow smoooches and their angsty pained "I want you so much I can't stand it" expressions. Damn. Just hot damn.
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Date: 2011-08-04 02:54 pm (UTC)That's like, "Hey Sun, stop shining so bright and hot! Global warming and skin cancer and blah blah blah! So you just stop it right now you hot hot, Sun!" Go ahead, try it. See what happens. :D
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Date: 2011-08-04 02:19 pm (UTC)I can't form any coherent thoughts about this really. I love the cheating, had no problem with any of it and was supremely pissed (still am) at Lee for staying with Dee. I get it, I really understand why he did, but I am still INCENSED about it.
(Standard disclaimer: cheating in r/l sucks, cheating in fic THE MOST DELICIOUS AND HOT THING EVER WHEN IT INVOLVES MY OTP GETTING IT ON!!!!!!)
long-ish and a bit ranty...
Date: 2011-08-04 02:28 pm (UTC)In and of itself it’s a great scene. It’s hot. It relies on the crazy undeniable chemistry between Kara and Lee. And I totally agree about how wonderful it is that Kara doesn’t push or get angry with over needing to be his more moral self event though she’s willing to continue bending the rules all she needs.
And it’s not the cheating in theory. After the dance both Dee and Sam know what’s going on. Dee knew from the beginning, before the delete raptor scene for UBex too quite frankly. And while I actually don’t’ think Sam knew or understood prior to the dance it’s pretty clear that he’s caught up by the time he leaves.
But… this is also the scene that makes me leave canon because I don’t buy the canon resolution of the ‘trapped’ issue, which is just to leave them trapped forever.
I don’t think that Lee would so easily cheat with Kara unless he was already emotionally, mentally out of his relationship with Dee. I think his love for her is too precious for me to believe a fling would be anything other that sacrilege. I’ve never quite believed that he goes back to Dee with any sort of real commitment. He’s just waiting for it to fall apart. I think I understand why he goes back. I don’t think Lee gets over risking Dee’s life for Kara’s and the whole ball of guilt renders him immobile, but it’s never a real relationship again, just guilt and immobility.
Conversely I don’t’ think Kara would offer to leave Sam in TAB, risking rejection from Lee, and then go back to Sam. I love that she puts herself out there, but she would only do that for Lee and I’m not sure I find her accepting of defeat very believable. *shrug*
So in the end, as much as I love the outmaking and don’t hold the infidelity against them, I find the whole arc ended up so botched that this is where I start getting mad.
Re: long-ish and a bit ranty...
Date: 2011-08-04 02:36 pm (UTC)YES! This scene . . . Ahhhhhh. The follow-up in Taking A Break . . . FUBAR! They could've worked it out! It was work-out-able! Keeping them apart was so contrived.
But this scene . . . . Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm... :)
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Date: 2011-08-04 02:47 pm (UTC)Conversely I don’t’ think Kara would offer to leave Sam in TAB, risking rejection from Lee, and then go back to Sam. I love that she puts herself out there, but she would only do that for Lee and I’m not sure I find her accepting of defeat very believable. *shrug*
I enjoyed reading this. I think there are definitely some issues with "truthiness" in the affair plotline that just makes you think the writers felt trapped and ran out of ideas of how to believably keep them apart.
I really, really would have liked to have seen one of them recognize what they were doing and choose to be alone.
Although...honestly...in a way, I could argue that Kara WAS alone. Her being "back with" Sam...is pretty subjective. Maybe she just bar-crawled and booty called him again. After New Caprica, I never really got the sense that she felt any obligation to Sam. All the times that she "went back to him" seemed to be about sex and masking the feelings she was having for Lee...hell, as was their whole relationship. Kara's relationship with Sam was always about her maintaining her own independence pretty much. How many times does she tell him in so many words, "I don't really care what you do, I'm doing X."?
Hence, why I can never ever see Sam as being any kind of positive influence on Kara. It doesn't matter a damn if he accepts her the way she is, if she could pretty much care less in return. /rant aborted before I get fruit pelted angrily at me from the multishippers
Re: long-ish and a bit ranty...
Date: 2011-08-04 03:22 pm (UTC)In which case, hot raptor make out sessions aside, why have them have an affair in the first place. It was like this was all just to remind up that they were never going to get Lee and Kara together, but whoa, no one else we put them with can touch their chemistry. It's insulting. See why I leave canon? ;)
I also totally agree about Kara being back with Sam being pretty subjective. She goes back to using him, string him along and this is where I think Kara is much more a jerk. (Which is why I don't get Kara and Sam much at all or how anyone - I'm talking the writers - could try to sell them as meant to be). She just plain doesn't want to be alone, for some reason even though she was fine in S1 when she could have been working things out with Lee instead of sleeping with Baltar.
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Date: 2011-08-04 11:25 pm (UTC)EXACTLY THIS.
Sam is just about the least challenging person in the Galactica universe (DEE requires more of her spouse. Which is one of the many reasons she's problematic). Sam doesn't help Kara to be a better person, he turns a blind eye to all of her bullshit
I think the writers thought they had with Sam - or intended to have with Sam - a shining example of unconditional love, but instead they got a cautionary tale of how damaging total acceptance can be. And How to Be A Doormat 101.
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Date: 2011-08-04 03:21 pm (UTC)Sigh. It wasn't a good resolution, you're right. I'm going to write something that makes my shipper heart sad. Don't read it if you want to stay in the "K/L forever" bubble where I usually live, honestly.
One one hand, I think the writers just kept artificially keeping Kara and Lee apart because they thought it would be boring if they actually got together. Or they didn't think they could write it well. Or they didn't really want to write it. I don't even know.
On the other hand, sometimes there are people in life that are meant to be together. But the timing is never quite right, they are never quite free at the same time or life circumstances just continually tear them apart. In that way I'm glad Kara and Lee got the moments they did get together, you know? I think that Lee should have accepted Kara's offer to leave Sam. But he was so caught up in his own stuff and that happens in real life too. Opportunities lost. What's maddening is how poorly written it was in the show and how it started to feel manipulative after a while. Sigh. That's TV.
I believe that Kara and Lee were meant to be together. They just didn't get to be together. When I think hard about it I'm a little scared of how these same writers (remember tablesex?) would have written these two actually in a relationship. Yup, very scared actually. I don't think the writers believed in Kara and Lee as a couple. But I do. Even if they never married or were in a relationship, I believe that them apart had more chemistry and potential than them actually being with the partners they married. Or with anyone else, really.
Oops, mini shipper manifesto! But I guess this is the place for that. ;-)
Re: long-ish and a bit ranty...
Date: 2011-08-04 05:09 pm (UTC)Honestly, I totally agree with this. It's is more or less why I love Lee and Kara, why I still love them.
Ultimately, I think TPTB were much better at potential than they were at resolution. And I would have been fine with them dying together in the last moment of the show or walking off into the sunset, but what we got were a bunch of not just missed but ignored opportunities for them to get together (and I agree the writers would have botched that!) and contrivances to keep them separated. And they tried to make it nothing, instead of meant to be but unable. Ugh.
On the other hand, I'm having way too much fun rehashing, rethinking and repairing what the writers screwed up. hee.
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Date: 2011-08-04 06:40 pm (UTC)I believe Kara and Lee were the show's OTP too. Why spend all that time on their relationship, going so far as to revisit its origin in the dying episodes of the show, if that wasn't it? If they really were nothing and bad for each other, why not just end that storyline decisively after TAB instead of having wistful musings under the wing where they basically do everything but actually SAY they still love each other, and why bother reuniting them - however briefly - after she's back from the dead? The fact that they didn't get a resolution like most OTPs get doesn't change the fact that they ARE one.
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From:no subject
Date: 2011-08-04 02:46 pm (UTC)I still feel this way about this scene. I feel it just shows who they both are and who they both are together. Kara coming in off flying. Lee trying to stand by his principles. These two that can't stay away from each other even though they know they should. And gosh, they were so sweaty! It was the first scene where they actually, non-flashback-in-the-present give into the crackling sexual tension that I think they always have together. And no one is going crazy, or dying, or crying. Good old fashioned making out and angst. Ah, pilots.
This is another 'vintage' post about Kara and Lee (http://users.livejournal.com/wisteria_/679518.html). One of my favorites. :-)
The cheating bothers people? It's such an odd situation because the spouses know. Dee knows from when she hears the raptor come in. She should have walked into that raptor and busted some heads. Now, that would have been interesting! And later Sam is all like, "You think you're the first?" I'm pretty sure he's lying to get to Lee and it works but . . . then go call your wife on her shit! What the heck?
But the spouses didn't do anything and we get outmaking and it makes me happy. Later on Kara and Lee do feel guilty and stop. But for many other make out sessions they didn't.. :-D
OT: While the cheating didn't bother me because, as Sci-Fi Shipper says, this is the stuff of TV and fic, I did write a Dee/Sam fic (http://daybreak777.livejournal.com/63671.html) where they sleep with each other because damn, why shouldn't they have angsty sexytiems too? Um, I guess infidelity in fic/TV doesn't bother me that much. ;-)
no subject
Date: 2011-08-04 03:09 pm (UTC)yap, RL cheating is really bad and all of that but i can't get angry at the pilots in this scene because of the whole hotness thing and because ultimately they do the "right thing" - namely going back to their spouses. it;s not what we would have wanted for them but still.
personally i would have lost a big part of my respect for Lee if he would have continued after what happened in this episode. especially after the discussion with Sam (yes, i do believe that Sammy at least exaggerated but still no way to prove it) and ordering Dee to go after Kara.
i really have to go and rewatch this scene now....
no subject
Date: 2011-08-04 03:26 pm (UTC)And then my most hated line of the whole business, "You don't have to make that big of a deal out of this." And THAT'S The moment I want to throttle our girl! KARA! How could you?! *sobs*
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Date: 2011-08-04 03:37 pm (UTC)And then my most hated line of the whole business, "You don't have to make that big of a deal out of this." And THAT'S The moment I want to throttle our girl! KARA! How could you?! *sobs*
Funnily, I adore that line. I think it so well portrays how Kara has been deluding herself into thinking she's just cheating, like maybe she has before, but then is forced to acknowledge to herself HEARTBREAKINGLY so that, yes, of course, it is different and it IS KILLING HER! Gah. So Kara!
(But I understand your upset with it.)
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Date: 2011-08-04 03:54 pm (UTC)Ugh, It just breaks me! Like the little girl in The Patriot screaming Mel Gibson yelling "Don't go Daddy, I'll say anything" breaks me...which is a lot.
I don't know why i'm so quotey today. I guess it helps me explain. :)
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Date: 2011-08-04 04:52 pm (UTC)i really don't like Kara when she said that.
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Date: 2011-08-04 06:53 pm (UTC)Ultimately, what I took away from it was that it makes no apparent difference if you separate Lee Adama and Kara Thrace and never let them get together again. You exile them to opposite ends of the galaxy and they'll still be the centre of each other's universe. Have them marry and stay with other people of their own volition, they'll still pine for each other. They're not good as a couple, you say? Doesn't stop them needing each other, whether it's as friends, teammates, lovers, colleagues, family. At the end, it's love - messy, complicated, terribly timed, but also EPIC and beautiful and life-changing.
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Date: 2011-08-04 07:12 pm (UTC)GORGEOUS! THIS! *hugs you*
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Date: 2011-08-04 08:03 pm (UTC)SSWA!
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Date: 2011-08-04 11:02 pm (UTC)If it is me, well I'll be over here with the chocolate fountain.
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Date: 2011-08-04 11:19 pm (UTC)Maybe if the Kara/Sam and Lee/Dee relationships had been written better, I wouldn't feel this way, but as it is they just seem like such arbitrary obstacles to happiness.
Sometimes I think that the writers actively hated Kara/Lee and did this all on PURPOSE. (And then I remember the last couple of seasons of the show and remember that DART BOARDS were part of the writing process and try to chill with the conspiracy theories.)
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Date: 2011-08-04 11:37 pm (UTC)Oh, yes. ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING THEY ONLY MARRIED THOSE SPOUSES IN THE FIRST PLACE BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T HAVE/THOUGHT THEY COULDN'T HAVE EACH OTHER.
I mean, frak me, did the writers forget that simple fact when they were coming up with all the drivel about how Lee/Dee and Kara/Sam are better together than pilots?
Sorry for going all CAPSLOCK up there, but this sometimes makes me angry.
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Date: 2011-08-05 01:11 am (UTC)I just finished the series last week and watched the whole thing in just a month or two, so it's a totally different experience without all the speculation and free time between seasons/episodes. Also, thanks to my fanfic obsession, I was spoiled about some things, at least in name only like "the poof." (which I thought, until the real poof, was Maelstrom lol!)
I don't have any meta to add to this discussion, however I do want to thank Tara for this peek at real-time squee. If any of you ever want to wax nostalgic, you've got a willing audience right here :D