DPP: Point of no return

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

Today I'm stealing from that great philosopher of romance, Logan Echolls. "I thought [their] story was epic. [Kara and Lee.] Spanning years and continents. Lives ruined and blood shed. Epic. But then [Kara poofed] and it [was] all over." As Logan goes on to say: "No one writes songs about the ones that come easy."

Do you agree with this, that all the most memorable fictional romances are the tragic ones? And what do you think the point of no return was, (i.e. when did Kara and Lee lose the opportunity for a "happy" ending - by whatever definition of happy you use, but at the very least, both of them being alive and together)? Was it at their first meeting, when they almost betrayed Zak? Or was it when Lee, from still-mysterious reasons, recused himself from the "Colonial Day" dance? Was it when Kara promised Sam she'd come back to New Caprica? Was it when she and Lee almost frakked in "Scar" or was it when they did in "Unfinished Business and she married Sam the next morning? Was it when Lee failed to take up Kara's offer to leave Sam in that episode whose name I constantly forget? Or was it when Kara flew into the "Maelstrom" because Lee had too much faith in her flying? Or did they, in fact, get their happy ending after all in "Daybreak"?

(I have to confess that I'm increasingly coming around to the opinion that I would have been ok with the *poof* if Kara and Lee had a) kissed beforehand or touched each other at all and if b) the script had indicated that they were devastated and heartbroken by this turn of events, instead of my having to rely on Katee's and Jamie's expressive faces to draw this conclusion.)

And lastly, here's another one of my favorite (sepia-toned) caps:

Comments

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

Lol. Who knew you were such a fan of sepia tone? :)

I think that their story does not make sense without a happy ending. Because why do you bother telling a story where nothing can change? If Kara and Lee truly started out doomed by that interrupted table makeout (which is kind of ridiculous in a series where everything else under the sun seems to be forgiven/can evolve), why would you end their arc the exact same way it started? There's no growth there and that's just narrative fail in my opinion.

I always felt their trajectory as a pair was about them trying to overcome their obstacles (internal ones about self-worth and worthiness to be loved v. guilt, and external distractions like spouses they didn't love enough to treat nicely, the end of the world, duty requiring sacrifices and hard choices) so they could finally feel free to be together/love each other. As for when that changed or when they lost their chance at a happy ending? Not until Kara literally poofed out of that plane of existence and the show told us she wasn't coming back. I mean, potentially, if this were a show where there was actually rules that they established and stuck to w/r/t resurrection/angels/mysticism, then I would say their chance at a happy ending died when Kara's viper blew up. But...honestly, why couldn't Kara 2.0 have stuck around, resurrected again, etc. She was tangible, people touched her, people saw her, people heard her. What more definition does she need?

I think Lee's last meaningful lines to her were the point "I'm here. You're here. I don't care. This is all that matters." If they didn't feel the need to explain what Kara came back as, there was no need for them to make her poof away again.

As an addendum, it's really annoying to know they were directed (by Rhymer) to play the end as platonically/non-emotionally as possible. I so do not understand that direction after all their whole relationship and every other scene they ever had. Makes no sense.

[kdbleu.livejournal.com]

I think that their story does not make sense without a happy ending. Because why do you bother telling a story where nothing can change? If Kara and Lee truly started out doomed by that interrupted table makeout (which is kind of ridiculous in a series where everything else under the sun seems to be forgiven/can evolve), why would you end their arc the exact same way it started? There's no growth there and that's just narrative fail in my opinion.

I agree with this so much. The story I signed on for was about real people in an unreal place and time. Real people work out their problem and grow to become something better through hardship or they're supposed to anyway.

[entaiaime.livejournal.com]

As an addendum, it's really annoying to know they were directed (by Rhymer) to play the end as platonically/non-emotionally as possible. I so do not understand that direction after all their whole relationship and every other scene they ever had. Makes no sense.

AHHH! How did I not hear this before? That's so annoying!!

I completely agree with you. I think they deserved their happy ending. It's the only way that the table scene and really the whole series make sense... (I had more to say but lj ate my first post so... yeah.)

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

Hee! I think the sepia tones fit the tone of nostalgic sadness of my questions. Or else I'm just too frakking lazy to play with other screencaps and now I set up this theme and by gosh I'm sticking with it. (OCD?)

She was tangible, people touched her, people saw her, people heard her. What more definition does she need?

People even had sex with her. So ... yeah, I guess the rules just kept changing!!!

And yes, why were they directed to play not-emotionally? their faces (especially Katee's, IMO) gave the game away a bit but ... WHAT? Why couldn't there at least have been love/regret that things never worked out instead of nothing at all? REALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT in light of "Islanded"!!

Sigh.

[kdbleu.livejournal.com]

I have long been of the opinion that it's not whether or not the ending for a couple is happy or tragic, it's whether is appropriate, justified and earned. Romeo and Juliet dying is the right end for their story. Beatrice and Benedict is the right end for their story. The fact that one is happy and one sad is not how I judge right. Othello and Desdemona, now there's a frustrating ending because they just needed someone to come in and stop them before the stabbing.

My issues with Kara and Lee is that while I'm not a fan of the poof. It's largely because while on some level appropriate, I don't think it's justified or earned. It comes across instead as kind of lazy, symbolic writing, which wasn't what drew me into the story in the first place. I would have love a touch or a kiss or a scene that gave them their moment of heartbreak to mirror mine.

Or the writers could have chosen to written Lee and Kara working out their problems like real people! At any point in the show really, but they decided they didnt' want to do that. So to actually answer your question... The point of no return is Maelstrom because by killing Kara and bring her back and something inhuman the writers gave up on her working out her life in favor of destiny.

Re: Sigh.

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

The point of no return is Maelstrom because by killing Kara and bring her back and something inhuman the writers gave up on her working out her life in favor of destiny.

totally in agreement here.

a totally fairytale ending for them was out of the question from the start for so many reasons but the point where they lost all hope for at least a normal one was when they killed her.

Re: Sigh.

[fifi4life.livejournal.com]

As an extension of your point of her working out her life in favor of her destiny, I would like to add that it has bothered me since I first watched Malestrom that we are to believe that Kara's abuse at the hands of her mother were all for a reason and was to help to prepare her for what was to come. Maybe I'm not enlightened enough, but I still fail to see how it really did. The abuse can be seen as the main reason for Kara's frakked up life, so I feel like the writers felt that they needed to justify it all before they killed her.

Re: Sigh.

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

So Say We All.

I agree with every word. Nothing was earned and none of it was justified. It didn't make any sense in the rest of the BSG universe and seemed completely unnecessary.

I just don't understand how they thought it was a good idea. :(

Re: Sigh.

[entaiaime.livejournal.com]

I have long been of the opinion that it's not whether or not the ending for a couple is happy or tragic, it's whether is appropriate, justified and earned.

Well said.

Othello and Desdemona, now there's a frustrating ending because they just needed someone to come in and stop them before the stabbing.

This cracked me up. =)

I agree with you about Maelstrom. The line that Kara gives Lee about "I guess that's all we'll ever be now" is the final nail in the coffin. They weren't going to get their happy ending. They weren't going to ever work it out because the writers stole it (as if they hadn't stolen enough from Kara at that point, but I digress...)

Re: Sigh.

[thegreenkitty.livejournal.com]

Completely agree, bb. Good points with the Shakespearean couples. My point of no return is also Maelstrom.

I've already said my Kara canon stops at Maelstrom exactly b/c of the character death/special destiny and lack of resolution or even adequate explanation for Kara 2.0. Lee's canon goes farther. K/L, I'm somewhat undecided, as there are moments in S4/4.5 that I love. Really though...once you decimate a character to the point that the actor says "I don't know who I am or what I'm supposed to be doing"...relationships with that character have little chance of working since the character herself no longer makes sense.

[kag523.livejournal.com]

Do you agree with this, that all the most memorable fictional romances are the tragic ones?

I have to admit I'm of two minds on this question. First, I just want to say that it ended Kara's story in a way that left me exceptionally annoyed because it didn't fit into her story arc. On the other hand, my husband, who betas endlessly and isn't a K / L shipper has asked me on a number of occasions if the ending wasn't a BRILLIANT decision on the part of RDM to keep fans in a state of perpetual frustration. (Like the missing "right parentheses" comment from sandiek.... and it's element of absence.

I don't know if I actually agree with D or not on this assessment, but I'll tell you this. I would NEVER have written fanfic in the first place if I'd gotten an ending that I was happy with. It was the frustration that the writers had dared to pull a deus ex machina ending - AND the destiny card to boot - that got me writing fanfic.

Since then I've come to terms with the ending in my own way. I figure Kara came back once - she could come back again. I figure that with all the "this has happened before" that I can imagine any number of other cycles a la Robert Jordan that could include her staying. And finally - I happen to buy into the whole parallel universe / Dr. Michio Kaku whirlpool of time theory, so I think there's every chance that the multiple Kara's might come back together.

And by the way - here's that annoying right parenthesis back again. Feels better to have it stay, doesn't it?)

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

On the other hand, my husband, who betas endlessly and isn't a K / L shipper has asked me on a number of occasions if the ending wasn't a BRILLIANT decision on the part of RDM to keep fans in a state of perpetual frustration. (Like the missing "right parentheses" comment from sandiek.... and it's element of absence.


i like the way that he thinks. and i believe that he might be right. people tend to... idk, not forget but at least put aside the stories that seem to have ended right. i had never felt the need to think to much/read/imagine different scenarios for a romantic comedy or for a normal procedural.

[kdbleu.livejournal.com]

And by the way - here's that annoying right parenthesis back again. Feels better to have it stay, doesn't it?)

hee.

[delle.livejournal.com]

I have no opinion except to totally agree that had the writers/producers given us a brief moment of goodbye between Lee and Kara, I could have accepted (and even, perhaps, loved) the poof. While I would have loved to have seen Lee and Kara finding a working relationship (and I think relationship =/= boring because those two would have continued fighting and frakking their entire lives), I could have accepted an unresolved relationship if RDM and his writers hadn't completely dropped the Lee/Kara UST for the entire 4th season.

[fifi4life.livejournal.com]

Ahh, Mr. Echolls, such a philosophical guru, than one.

I agree with most of you guys that Maelstrom was the point of no return, which makes that episode oh the more heart wrenching.

I'm still struggling to come to terms with the poof myself. However, I have rewritten the scene in my head. In my version, before she disappears, Kara returns the aurora figure to Lee. Kara represented aurora, herald of the new dawn. So by completing that last jump, her journey(as played out by the writers) was indeed done.

By giving back it back to Lee, it would be like he would always have her there with them

I wish I was better at writing these things out, it would make much more sense:)

I actually rewatched this scene a few days ago. When Lee says, "Where are you going?", I had always thought he said it with very little emotion. But upon closer review, it almost sounds like his voice cracks when he says it, as if the thought of her leaving him too was just too much.

Am I imagining this? Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part.

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

The tragedy of it keeps me coming back and writing because I need to make sense of it. If it had been a relatively happy or satisfying ending for them, I might have written for a while and then lived in the happy place of togetherness forever. Unfortunately, their tragedy was less a circumstance of their own making than an editorial decision to create a nonsensical metaphor and resolve a backstory between K/L that didn't need to exist and amounted to character assassination in my book.

If it had made sense, if there had been some justification for their need to live (or poof) separately, then maybe I could have bought into it. As it stands, "tragedy" as it were, doesn't really apply for me. It just didn't make sense.

[entaiaime.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, their tragedy was less a circumstance of their own making than an editorial decision to create a nonsensical metaphor and resolve a backstory between K/L that didn't need to exist and amounted to character assassination in my book.

This. This. This. I feel like the backstory didn't resolve itself at all. Usually when I see or read flashbacks in TV/movies/books it usually affects the events of the future. There is some kind of resolution in the present, based upon the flashback. IMO, the table scene didn't make sense because writers didn't get their resolution in the field. And by 'resolution' I don't mean a shrug of the shoulders and platonic wave goodbye.

I mean, in order to validate what they (and we as the audience) went through, Kara & Lee should've gotten their HEA.

Sorry.. I think I got a little rambly.

[somewhereapart.livejournal.com]

I don't know that the most memorable romances are the tragic ones, I think we just tend to spend more time talking the tragic ones over and over because we're trying to figure out where they went wrong, and at which points they could have changes, and what could have been done to make their endings less tragic. Or analyzing what parts of each character led to the tragic ending -- who couldn't get their shit together and why, or what stood in their way, or what bad decision did this person or that person make.

So I don't think the tragic romances are necessarily more memorable, but I do think they lend better to discussion and thinky thoughts. I think there's a certain amount of closure we're looking to make both for ourselves and for them, and that's something you don't find as much in relationships that were given closure on the shows.

[ecstaticdance.livejournal.com]

I think there's an element of tragedy in all great stories. Comedies may stick with you, but they do so in a very different way than tragedies and dramas do, generally speaking. Probably because life as a whole has an element of tragedy in it. Very few people go through life without experiencing personal loss. Tragedy in a story makes it more personal for the reader.

So in that sense, yes I think the greatest romances do encompass some level of tragedy.

But as others have said before, there's a stark difference between "tragedy as appropriate culmination of a fully rounded and realized relationship that logically ends in tragedy" and "tragedy as art". One is subtly built to and while heart-rending at least serves a purpose. The other is pure laziness.

Also, not all relationships that include tragedy necessarily end in tragedy.

Honestly, I think I'd have been more okay with Kara not making it to the end if she'd been shot during the confrontation in the CIC, and her dying action was to punch in the notes from that damn song. That could have been an appropriately tragic ending. Make her the dying leader who would take them to the promised land but never set foot on it. Make her Moses if you must, but don't make her a cheap version of Jesus.

[entaiaime.livejournal.com]

I agree.

Honestly, I think I'd have been more okay with Kara not making it to the end if she'd been shot during the confrontation in the CIC, and her dying action was to punch in the notes from that damn song. That could have been an appropriately tragic ending. Make her the dying leader who would take them to the promised land but never set foot on it. Make her Moses if you must, but don't make her a cheap version of Jesus.

Oh, holy cow that's an amazing idea. I mean not the dying part, but the fitting with the prophecy part and her going out with a bang instead of a whisper in the wind. So cool.

[wand3rlust.livejournal.com]

In real life I'm a cynic, but in the fictional world of books, tv and movies I'm a hopeless romantic. As long as the characters are breathing and haven't crossed over into evil territory then I *always* think things can turn around. The only "point of no return" on BSG is the poof - because Kara ceases to exist.

I'm with taragel on this one, in that I sincerely thought this journey of theirs was going to lead to a happy ending or at least resolution of some kind. Like full acknowledgment of the true love they shared would've been nice to hear - in actual words. I keep trying to tell myself I would've been ok with the poof if we even would've gotten something along the lines of, "I love you but I can't stay." kind of thing. In my heart though I know that's not really true. I may have been less disappointed, but still very very disappointed. The only way the poof would've worked as a brilliant tragic ending would have been if there was enough romance in S4 to support it. There wasn't so it felt like a cruel final stab from RDM just because he could.

As for when the writers gave it up? I can't be quite sure exactly - I'm not convinced RDM ever supported the idea now. I think there's enough evidence in podcasts and interviews to support that. But, obviously other show writers did want it as much as the fans did. The back/forth with their relationship at the end of S3 and in S4 was especially confusing. It always felt like certain writers (mostly Michael Taylor) always wrote them as being in love, while others seemed to want a Kara/Sam otp which makes the whole story inconsistent. The point that truly set their relationship off course is what kdbleu said - when they killed Kara off thoughtlessly. To me it looked exactly like what it was - a hair-brained scheme for writers to shock us with absolutely no forethought put into it. It makes me angry to even think about how one writer could get away with pulling something like that out of his ass and everyone went along with it. I know he was the head writer and all, but the team of writers should've either come up wit something brilliant to support it or should've told him it was a terrible idea and flushed it out an airlock.

[entaiaime.livejournal.com]

In real life I'm a cynic, but in the fictional world of books, tv and movies I'm a hopeless romantic.

I'm like that too. I agree completely with this post. I would've liked some kind of resolution with words and at least some acknowledgement from the writers that Kara and Lee needed some kind of resolution. I mean S3 they shouted to the skies that they loved each other? Did the writers think that we forgot? I can't believe that didn't think that they owed the audience something. It really annoys me to no end.

[zenzero42.livejournal.com]

I know that my opinion is unpopular but yes I agree with the "no one writes songs about the ones that come easy". I truly believe that their history is epic because is tragic.

I don't even care that they didn't seem devastated by the separation, because I KNOW that they were. also, I really like the editing of the field-poof scene, with the flash back that states that they were star-crossed from day one, destined to a tragic ending.

looking at that scene I always feel that the flash back shows us what Kara and Lee are remembering in that moment: at that point no words are needed, with only a look they are saying goodbye to each other, like that first night "it was nice to meet you Lee Adama" "likewise Kara Thrace".

[ddt73.livejournal.com]

I felt they still had a chance up to the poof.

Very recently as I cutted scenes out of the back end of season 4.5 for my website, I was reminded of things that bugged me. Something that just didn't make any sense to me.

After the mutiny Lee became vice president and was all but president except in name only, Lee was the one to rebuild the government. Kara felt guilty over shooting Sam, and even more guilty to hold off his surgery (she wanted to know if she was a cylon) which may have caused his coma. Both had to deal with spouses that were taken without warning, both have guilt over it. The remaining lives in humanity both fell largely on their shoulders as A&R seems increasingly unable to lead like they once did.

Keep in mind that after the Quorum was wiped out, they were both on Galactica through these tough times. There are many people they could confide in, but while they are close to each other as far as distance they never show them talking or being there for each other while all this goes on. However in Islanded you can see they are close and care for each other.

With so much going on, wouldn't they have confided in each other? Or at least blow off some steam with each other? in Sometimes a Great Notion Kara was going to tell Lee what she found, so it's not like she's afraid to share. Besides like Lee he said he saw her blow up, was there when she returned. Nothing she can say or do will shock him any more.

They needed to tell the story of how they in many ways took on the roles of Adama and Roslin, they were the ones who held humanity's fate in their ends by the end. The children had become the parents. You see this in revelations, where it's L&K making the decision to go to Earth with the cylons.

I think it's a story on two fronts, how they handle that pressure, and how it affects their relationship. It's a huge plot hole. But they spent lots of times on pointless ships (tigh and caprica), Baltar's cult that would have been better spent on this storyline.

The result of not going here, leads people to have wildly divergent opinions on Lee and Kara's ship during season four, cause there's not much to go on. You look at the amount of time they weren't together, but when they were they were happy to be together. It makes it all hard to read. Failure on the writers' parts.

I'd bet the house there were deleted scenes at least from the script that may fill in the gaps a bit. Guess in the end when they realized they weren't giving them a great ending they didn't feel the need to delve into their ship.

[nazkey.livejournal.com]

I feel that at an "epic" love story is more about the journey than the outcome, if that makes sense. Sure, there are a great number of epic stories out there with tragic endings, but there are also a lot with happy ones. kdbleu used Beatrice & Benedict as an example, and for me (of course), Elizabeth & Darcy are a perfect example.

It's not so much about the ending for me necessarily as how the two people evolve in their relationship that makes their story epic.

kag523 mentions above that she would've never started writing fanfic if she had been satisfied with the ending and I can certainly see how that would be a motivator, because the majority of the writers for this particular fandom are writing fic to "fix" things. I can tell you though that there is a ton of fanfic out there for happy love stories too mostly because people just want more. So, to my lovely and crazy talented Brain!Twin, I say, "I don't believe you," because you would've written about them, not based on how their story ended, but based on their journey together as a couple ... their epicness, so to speak. I know you would :-)

After about a year of being a member of this community and hanging out with all of you, I'm going to put myself out there (finally) and say what I've told some of you in private: I don't have a problem with the way K/L ended in the series. Before you all throw me out of the comm (hee), let me explain:

1. For all intents & purposes, Kara died in Maelstorm. Period. She was dead. While the writers failed in explaining who/what she was when she came back, the fact is that she died. Whatever hope I had of her getting together with Lee died with her.

2. There is a lot of writer fail on moving plotlines, character arcs, etc. but at the end of the day, BSG was never intended to be a happy-ending kind of a show. At least I never thought of it that way. Also, everything was always in shades of gray, and when I look at the entire story, I find that there are characters I loved at the beginning which I grew to hate and vice versa. I never expected a happy ending because to me, it wasn't that kind of a show. The epic love story of K/L was just another part of a bigger story and it was doomed from the moment he took her hand and pulled her out from under the viper and they didn't hug . Maybe I'm too jaded/cynical, but when they didn't hug, I knew that the writers weren't going to get them together. Now mind you, I hated the whole QoD arc (I feel it was a HUGE disservice to Dee's character arc and a horrible ploy to jam Sam into the narrative somehow).

3. The main Writer!Fail to me is not that K/L didn't get together or that the ending was not emotional enough, but that they constantly kept giving false hope to the shippers. I feel that the relationship was truly doomed when Lee declared his love on the Astral Queen and Kara shot him down with her snark. Here was a reserved, tightly controlled man, finally giving voice to his feelings and being rejected with a joke. From that point on, Lee was just operating from a defensive place IMO. And Kara ... well, Kara's screwed up emotionally. She knows that. She has a hard time letting down her walls and what she feels for Lee scares the crap out of her. He goes after her in a passive/defensive way and she deflects. It's a tragic story before it even really begins. I don't know if this makes any sense or if I'm articulating it well. The final nail on the coffin is when she offers to leave Sam if he leaves Dee and it's just a case of bad timing on her part because Lee is again, on super defensive mode.

4. The whole thing is really over before it even starts based on the god awful table frak scene. They will never get past that (no matter how brilliantly fanfic writers make it work) because both of them have too many personal hangups to get over it. When I look at it from a detached perspective (vs. a shipper), I feel that if the worlds hadn't ended, they would've probably gone their separate ways for good and never really had much contact.

Okay. Go ahead and let me have it ;-)

[kdbleu.livejournal.com]

BSG was never intended to be a happy-ending kind of a show

I fully agree with this except that for some reason TPTB thought the fleet should find Earth. The minute they found Earth something in the nihilism changes for me. They wanted both the resolution of finding Earth and the tragic ending. That's incompatible for me. You either show a journey with a beginning middle and end or you don't. You don't get to arrive to safety and then just poof away all the ends that don't fit right. If the tragic ending for Kara and Lee was the goal, they should have dies to complete their goal, really died not pretend died.

but that they constantly kept giving false hope to the shippers

I agree with this too. I think that TPTB very much wanted Kara and Lee to just go away. They they tried laughing them off, marrying them to other people, breaking each others hearts, trying to actively kill each other and finally supposing that they were doomed before they started through character assassination. Unfortunately, they were popular and charmatic. I don't think they writers had any intention of getting them together, and the lengths they went to prove their point is ultimately what really bothers me about the whole proposition. The writers had all teh power, not the characters, not the situation and they wanted fake deaths, sham marriages and bunch of other stuff that's just starting to piss me off right now. *grrr* & *wink*

[cosetteferaud.livejournal.com]

I think there is something incredibly appealing about fictional tragedy and doomed couples; maybe it’s the haunting quality of these relationships, the obstacles and the struggle, the fact that you keep thinking about them because it’s not neat and tidy and… you know, babies and domestic bliss ;P I actually kinda think that unfulfilled love is the most romantic kind of (fictional) love and maybe I am a masochist, but I love that my heart actually aches for these couples: I love the feeling of yearning and loss from something you never actually had but wanted in an excruciating way –that is, them having a happily ever after, of course :). That being said, even though my favorite love stories are the bittersweet or tragic ones (I prefer the former to the latter, though, I always appreciate a touch of hopefulness), I must admit that I don’t dislike happy endings at all; in the end, it all comes to if the happy or tragic ending feels right and rings true to the story.

Which leads me to Lee and Kara… I know that this is a kinda unpopular opinion, but I could have been perfectly happy with a tragic, meaningful, unforgettable (and well-written) ending for the pilots. Given their history and the way the show had always set them up, I think this kind of ending was fitting -–the main problem was, of course, that we never got any sort of closure for them but that travesty that was the scene in the field. I would have gladly cried buckets of tears as long as my pilots had had one last meaningful moment together before the end. Instead, it was like four seasons of their growing relationship meant NOTHING in the end. And that was the real tragedy for me, actually.

[pressdbtwnpages.livejournal.com]

The table scene in whichever Daybreak, I gasped out loud and remember thinking "Why didn't they tell me this at the beginning? At least then I would have known it was doomed." So I guess that's my point of no return (whether or not to consider that the beginning or end of BSG, I'm not sure).

And obviously Maelstrom and the poof are a huge problem. I'm at the point now where I wish they'd gone ahead and made Kara a Cylon post-Maelstrom, just because the repercussions and ramifications of that would be so interesting, and, goddammit it would have made WAY MORE SENSE.

[ever-neutral.livejournal.com]

if b) the script had indicated that they were devastated and heartbroken by this turn of events, instead of my having to rely on Katee's and Jamie's expressive faces to draw this conclusion.

This. I actually love the ~poof in THEORY, but in my mind it's way better executed. And is actually some sort of satisfying/appropriate conclusion of Kara's arc. But anyway...

Not gonna lie, that Logan quote is probably my favourite quote pertaining to love/romance. I know I personally am mostly drawn to the ~epic~ ships. They're not all necessarily doomed, but they do go through/put each other through a lot of angst/ugliness before they can get their acts together. I deeply believe that... relationships have to be proven to be worth it, you know? So that intense psychological journey is necessary.

I actually came in to BSG knowing that Lee and Kara were doomed, so I was operating/shipping them from that perspective. Ergo I was not heartbroken over the poof, because I was expecting tragedy. I still wish it'd been better-executed tragedy, but eh. If the poof did not exist, I think it could have gone either way. I don't think there was any "point of no return". I think after the QoD business they both consciously decided that they were better off salvaging their friendship, rather than trying to build a romantic one, and they opted to be happy with their respective spouses. And honestly, I think that was the right choice. If the poof had not happened, I think it could have gone either way. I sort of imagine that they'd remain best friends, as always, and maybe settle down together naturally somewhere down the track (but we wouldn't see it). And I would have been completely satisfied with that.