No Takebacks

Hi bb! Thank you so much! *waves back*

Mille baci!

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thegreenkitty.livejournal.com

*breathes a sigh of relief* *offers key lime pie*

Heh, you made me all worried we were gonna have to talk about Maelstrom or poofing. The open-endedness makes this post way less of the doom and gloom you forewarned. Now we get to choose how gloomy (or not) we wish to make things. Thanks, hon!

Today is crazy busy but I will think about this one and try to post more. (Also I realized there are some very Kara/Lee reasons why I felt I needed to go on hiatus even though I love you guys dearly. They'll be posted in my LJ when I finish the current WIP/update/explanation post.)

Also, major kudos to everyone, but especially to Angel for her thoughtful reply to that other post. Her discussion of CSA and PTSD and general clarifications as a psych professional were appreciated.

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Hey bb. Looking forward to your epic post of epicness.

xoxo

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ddt73.livejournal.com

What post you talking about? I have no recollection of this.

Lee and Kara are very interesting characters. One reason I love their ship, is I love them as individuals. It's kind of living having these two friends you want to see happy, and you are happy when they get together you know?

The thing about Lee Adama and Kara Thrace is that on the surface they appear very different. Starbuck is brash, bold and cocky and fearless. Adama is much more careful and laid back.

Over time as you get to know these two and see beneath the surface you realize they are much more alike then they appear. Both had their own sense of right and wrong, and will stand up for what they believe in, no matter the consequences. They have similar childhoods, both army brats, fathers left, abusive mothers. Both have had high expectations to handle. No matter what Kara did her mother expected more. Being Adama's sun similarly people expected alot from Lee. Cause of their backgrounds trusting people would be an issue for them through their life. Their strong connection, is based on them being kindred spirits. They see themselves a bit in each other.

The show consistently through its run has flipped flop their roles, Lee having to think outside the box and Kara being the responsible one. During the Peggy arc they showed how similar they can be. During the briefing Starbuck tells off the CAG, tells him his mission sucks and tells him how to fix his plan. Lee sits there quitely almost smirking at Kara. After the briefing Lee is shown to be in lock step with Kara, showing he thought the same exact thing. After when Kara is CAG and Lee is just a Lt. He wants to bust Helo and Chief out of the brig and Kara has to be the voice of reason (This is more evident in the extended version of that scene, which wasn't on the DVD). I could go on and on how they are similar.

Biggest difference between the two is Lee can hold in his emotions better, Kara is more likely to tell you what she thinks of you then Lee. Though chances are they probably are thinking the same thing, Lee is better at biting his tongue. Although if anyone is good at getting him to speak his mind, it's Kara.

So in short on the surface they appear very different almost night and day, but truth is they are much more alike they either would probably care to admit. :)

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damao2010.livejournal.com

I really liked everything you said and couldn't agree more, really. YOu summed up pretty well one of the reasons I love them so much.

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Yep yep! I agree, they are presented as "opposite" at first glance, but they are truly very very similar people.

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I love your description Dave. It's very true. They are very similar, their only real fundamental difference is how they express themselves. Kara is more of an ... extrovert ... so she acts/lashes out while Lee just keeps it inside and smolders.

IMO, that's one of the main reasons they couldn't get together because more than anything, they couldn't get out of their own way long enough to see that they were two sides of the same coin and complemented each other beautifully. The only time they allowed themselves to just be with each other was when flying. *sigh*

Thanks for responding!

&hearts

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Oh... I should have read through comments first before posting my own. Would have saved myself a lot of time typing. Could have just said, "What she said." :D

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Oh wow. What a touching and beautiful comment. I have to admit that it was very hard not to lash out at the OP on that other post, but in the end, I felt that it defeated the purpose and I didn't want to bring myself down to that level of complete ignorance, you know? Of course, being in the company of all these fabulous folks in our shipper nation doesn't hurt. I learn something new from each of them every day.

I have such a strong & deep connection to the show in general ... you're right. The writers did something right for us to still be fascinated by it. If you're interested, you're more than welcome to read my "Why BSG" post on my LJ. I would love to have your feedback on it.

Thanks again for posting and for your warm and heartfelt comments.

&hearts

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How sad is it that I didn't even bother reading the troll's post because it was so long? Plus I saw how it was upsetting everyone so I really figured it wasn't worth my time.

I will be back later with long rambly thoughts on Kara and Lee.

That wasn't so bad Naz! I thought we were going to get into some deep dark discussion about abuse/abusers or something along those lines. (Which I guess it very well could turn into that...)

However, I'm absolutely game to hear to hear peoples thoughts on the pilots - the good, bad and ugly. :p I think it's fair to say most of us adore them and would never bash for sake of bashing. There's nothing wrong with seeing peoples (or a characters) flaws - and still accepting them for who they are.

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I was going to type up this huge long rambly post full of bullet points on specifically why I love pilots. But I think no one would care enough to read a monologue that huge. So, on second thought, I'll just let my everyday comments, posts, vids, etc speak for themselves here and on my LJ. It's much easier to explain something you like/don't like as the individual topic is brought up. Otherwise it might take years to explain what exactly I love about pilots. :) Also, it depends on my mood sometimes what I love or hate. For instance, the dreaded almost table frak... most days I really dislike it, but there are some days when it just doesn't bother me -- especially when it's handled well in fics.

Also as we all know and constantly rave about here and all over, many of us have very similar reasons we love pilots. That is to put it plainly - you guys already know why I love pilots, because you like them for many of the same reasons I do. :) Which is why we're all here in the first place and why I assume so many of you have stuck around for years now.

Likewise, many of us have deeply personal reasons for relating to them which are more often than not hard to verbally explain. It's more connection on an emotional level due to something that has happened to you or something you relate to. Part of that has to do with writing, part with acting and part just your own personal interpretation. Characters that can make you do that are few and far between which is why I think BSG in general and pilots specifically is a show that is especially easy to relate to -- in the first couple seasons anyway. ;)

Ok... that's all I have for now. I'll be spreading the Kara love in a few days in my own LJ for an upcoming post I have planned. So if you're curious - feel free to check back. :)

All that said, I just wann say that Pilot shippers are truly one-of-a-kind! Trust me, it's really rare to find this kind of devotion and awesomeness in a single fandom.

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i absolutely love your comment but this also, it depends on my mood sometimes what I love or hate. is the best part.
and yes, would take a huge amount of time to really explain the connection to BSG and specifically the pilots.

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It's sadly true though, my mood swings severely affect my judgment some days. Which is ok for fandom, not so ok for a professional work environment. LOL

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Thanks for commenting bb! Yeah, I said it was dark & dreary because I honestly thought it might get there! TBH, I can't even bring MYSELF to write what I want to write because who knows how far into the abyss I will crawl? Hah.

it's really rare to find this kind of devotion and awesomeness in a single fandom. WORD. Our fandom is just made of amazing, talented and kind people.

PS There's nothing wrong with not having read that original post btw bb. You didn't really miss anything! &hearts

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i hope it's ok if i join the discussion in the morning (that would be in less than 10 hours). right now i'm too tired and my head hurts too much so i'll not be able to make any kind of real sense if i try to explain why do i relate to K/L individually and as a couple.
idk if i have time for pie but i can pick up some beer on the way (at least virtually since i;m on the other side of the planet n respect to the majority of you fro what i gathered).

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kdbleu.livejournal.com

I think very simply, and probably overly simply in many ways, what Kara and Lee were was real. They were skewed archetypes with at least attempts at depth and contradiction.

Lee wasn't much of an action hero although it's the type his character should be. He thought too much, didn't start out confidant or good at his job, doesn't always make the best, most obviously moral decision but usually makes the right one.

Kara is certainly not the heroine in many conventional respects. She saves Lee more than once, is rash and self destructive, and broken despite her bravado. (Note: I have a harder time with Kara's character because she quite being human when she died. And I don't mean that in an angel/whatever sense, but in a spark of humanity sense. I really don't know how to explain it very well, except that they killed her and I don't like that. *shrugs*)

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I love your answer: They are REAL. That, I think is key. Yes, the writers did get a bit wonky towards the end, but K/L and actually, all the other characters on BSG are very real. Very human, warts & all and I think that's what makes them different than your standard, a-typical archetypes (especially those on TV).

Thanks for commenting bb

&hearts

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I mean, when you're emotionally attached to a character and her relationship with a certain man, and shit doesn't go your way and you have to accept that this character is actually FOR REALS dead, that sucks! But imagine if you were Kara and try to tell me that you'd just LOVE to stick around and watch everyone try to live off nuts and berries when you could be chillin' in the afterlife. Just sayin'.

never thought of that :) i might not totally agree with it but you do have a point there. a valid one.

btw, it wasn't pointless for me. your comment i mean. i was on the point to start my own but found yours first so mine is going to be way shorter now because you said a lot of the things that i wanted to say.

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So i guess that in the end you at least tried to make peace with the end?
I ask because i have what i call my peace-treaty with DayBreak. i was angry and hurt and a lot of things for a long time and after i realized that this is the way that they wanted it to play out and that I can take the events from there in my own way. i still have issues with it but at least i can live with them.
and yes understanding some of Kara's actions was hard, but then again if she didn't do at least one of the things that she did the whole story would've taken another turn and they would probably miss Earth (at least one of them if not both).

oh and thanks.. you reminded me that i said that i;ll say something about my own way of relating to the pilots.

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