DPP: Going AU

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

Ok, this is it - the week in which the person in charge of the DPP bus doesn’t have a driving license. so, because of that and the fact that I had a plan and then I changed it and then sort of changed it again, and so on… I’ll take one advice from another show and “I’ll fake it until I make it”. I do hope that you all are going to bare with me and not throw assorted vegetables my way.
After last week’s lovely discussion about what we don’t like in fiction I ended up with the idea of speaking about AUs this week (or at least for a while).
Today’s topic is not really a topic but a Q&A about AUs in fanfiction. In a perfect world the goal would be to try and classify them but some thoughts, opinions, ideas, even some recommendations would be great.

1. do you like them?

2. what do you like/dislike about them?

3. what works and what doesn’t?

4. when do you consider a fic to be an AU and when not or if you want: where are you drawing the line?

5. do you prefer the ones where we have just something slightly different, the ones where everything is different or even the totally different setting type?

6. how do you feel about crossovers?

7. are BSG related AUs different from the ones that you wrote/read in other fandoms?

8. what about original characters?


And the list can go on and on but I promised myself to keep it sort of short and to go by my own 8 question rule. So, let’s have it people...

Comments

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

1. do you like them?

I love them now. When I was new to the show, not so much. I couldn't figure out why folks would take our pilots out of such a wonderful and rich world.

2. what do you like/dislike about them?

I love that they give our pilots new places to play and new kinds of challenges to overcome. I enjoy seeing how writers imagine a different kind of world and how pilots do or do not fit into it. There are no AU settings that I've disliked. If the characterization is off, however, it's difficult to enjoy bc that aspect of the fic MUST be spot on or the AU is just another story with vaguely familiar characters.

3. what works and what doesn’t?

See #2

4. when do you consider a fic to be an AU and when not or if you want: where are you drawing the line?

AU is the point at which the fic diverges from canon significantly. When the outcome of the entire show might change, I'd consider that AU. When only minor changes occur, it seems more like canon-lite, if that makes any sense! It's a hard line to draw bc the majority of fic is AU to some extent.

5. do you prefer the ones where we have just something slightly different, the ones where everything is different or even the totally different setting type?

I love both, but lately I've been craving non-BSG AUs, although I have yet to write one.

6. how do you feel about crossovers?

I also didn't really get crossovers before, but again, if the characterization is there, I'm all in. Sometimes, I get frustrated bc I want to read one but don't know the other fandom. Things get lost that way.

7. are BSG related AUs different from the ones that you wrote/read in other fandoms?

BSG is really my only fandom.

8. what about original characters?

I am okay with OCs in general, but prefer them to have a relatively minor role. I want LOTS AND LOTS of pilots. ;)

[lizziec]

1. do you like them?
I didn't, but I'm slowly being convinced that they can be pretty good.

2. what do you like/dislike about them?
What I've always disliked about them is that it's so easy for them to be done badly. Characters that feel like paper cut-outs in worlds that aren't real, sometimes with characters that have been mangled so badly that they don't feel like the people they were in the show before.

What I'm learning to like about them is when it's done well the characters continue to feel real and seeing them in different situations is incredibly interesting - like the character with a twist. In a well built world they feel as real as the characters we knew, in a situation that's believable.

Generally I find I hate badly written AU fic much more than badly written in-canon fic.

3. what works and what doesn’t?
Not wanting to sound like a broken record, but it tends to work when the writer is good and the world they've constructed is well built - also when the writer seems to have a good understanding of who the character is. The poor AU fics seem to come from writers who either weren't that great to begin with (and so needed the structure of canon to keep their fics readable) or who have a poor understanding of the characters before they started.

4. when do you consider a fic to be an AU and when not or if you want: where are you drawing the line?
As was mentioned last week (I think by sci_fi_shipper) most fics are AU in some respect because a lot of us write to fix something we perceive as broken in some way. Having said that, I tend to think of something as AU when established canon hasn't taken place (e.g. Zak isn't dead/the cylon holocaust of the twelve colonies didn't happen), even if it's set in a recognisable framework (so there are vipers, cylons, battlestars, etc).

5. do you prefer the ones where we have just something slightly different, the ones where everything is different or even the totally different setting type?
In the past I've preferred the ones that go AU sometime during the series, but I'm starting to be convinced on ones that go AU before the established events too.

6. how do you feel about crossovers?
Ambivalent, even when I know the show in question. I have a lot of the same problems with crossovers as I do with AU fic. Having said that, there has been a couple of good crossover fics which have almost changed my mind about crossover fic in general.

7. are BSG related AUs different from the ones that you wrote/read in other fandoms?
I don't know about this actually, because BSG is the first fandom I've been in when I've properly read AU fic. With other fandoms I tended to open up the fic, read half a page to a page, realised it's dreadful and closed it (at best, usually I just avoid it like the plague). With BSG I've actually stuck with it and grown to like some AU fic.

8. what about original characters?
As with most things in AU, my experience of them is mostly when they've been badly done - bad inserts of an OC who is mainly an idealised version of the writer (Mary Sue/Gary Stu) and they wind me up like very little else in fanfic. When an OC is well done I have no objection at all. They can be really interesting, especially as their approach to our characters can be fresh.


Have I ever mentioned that I have a most unpraiseworthy tendency to bear a grudge? :/ Sorry AU/Crossover fic writers :/

[adamas.livejournal.com]

1. do you like them? I think it depends on the AU (story and author style) but I'm certainly not 'anti' them.

2. what do you like/dislike about them? I like how open the possibilities are. AU's allow fic authors to literally do anything they choose with the characters we so love, and that is just nothing but good stuff.

3. what works and what doesn't? As long as the pilots are their badass, screwed up, emo at times, drunk at others selves, I'm happy ♥

4. when do you consider a fic to be an AU and when not or if you want: where are you drawing the line? I don't consider non-canon ships to make something AU, I tend to do with grander definitions - if the setting/timeline/finale are different, then it's a whole other kettle of fish.

5. do you prefer the ones where we have just something slightly different, the ones where everything is different or even the totally different setting type? I like them all!

6. how do you feel about crossovers? I love the idea that Ron Moore stuck a Firefly vessel into the miniseries. I think a Firefly crossover would work pretty seamlessly, but other than that I've never never considered it. I'd love to read some, though.

7. are BSG related AUs different from the ones that you wrote/read in other fandoms? Not really, though I have a hard time reading AU's in more 'fantasy' related fandoms because so many AU's make the stories all human and then it's like "what's the point, then?"

8. what about original characters? As a main character I tend to be against them. I don't see the point of writing fanfiction if you're going to focus on an OC, because you really could just write your own story in that case (unless it's like a story about things going on over on Pegasus in the same timeline as BSG or something like that - in that case an OC would be frakking awesome) but I definitely prefer my MCs to be characters from the fandom (and written in character! With lots of pilot!sexy times!).

[adamas.livejournal.com]

...bad inserts of an OC who is mainly an idealised version of the writer (Mary Sue/Gary Stu) and they wind me up like very little else in fanfic. When an OC is well done I have no objection at all. They can be really interesting, especially as their approach to our characters can be fresh.

Agreed. Completely.

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

AU is the point at which the fic diverges from canon significantly. When the outcome of the entire show might change, I'd consider that AU. When only minor changes occur, it seems more like canon-lite, if that makes any sense! It's a hard line to draw bc the majority of fic is AU to some extent.

This, what you are saying here is the reason that i asked that question. i tend to make the same distinction but i was curious if other people do the same thing.

I want LOTS AND LOTS of pilots
SSWA

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

bad inserts of an OC who is mainly an idealised version of the writer (Mary Sue/Gary Stu) and they wind me up like very little else in fanfic

those can be all sorts of bad. i hated them even before knowing what a Mary Sue is.

[mserrada.livejournal.com]

1. do you like them?: - I like them. It all really depends on the writer's ability to get the characters to come across as themselves regardless of the story/setting. I'll go with anything if that can be done well.

2. what do you like/dislike about them?: - So much to explore!

3. what works and what doesn’t?: - See#1

4. when do you consider a fic to be an AU and when not or if you want: where are you drawing the line?: - Any piece that changes canon is AU to me. Fics that fill in missing scenes/blocks of time and yet do not substantially change the canon going forward is not AU to me.

5. do you prefer the ones where we have just something slightly different, the ones where everything is different or even the totally different setting type?: - Either works. Just has to be well done and make sense.

6. how do you feel about crossovers?: - I'm not fond of them where I have no knowledge of the other fandom's characters. It can also feel jarring if the two universes don't properly mesh. But, I've read some that I never thought would work & 'ta-da', it was great! *shrug*

7. are BSG related AUs different from the ones that you wrote/read in other fandoms?: - Not hardly read other fandom fanfic. Of what I have, BSG fanfic quality is so much better!

8. what about original characters?: - I like them if they are a minor part of the story. I don't care to have them the focus since my BSG obsession is with the characters and not the BSG universe at large.

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

For the purposes of answering these questions, I'm counting AUs as VERY AUs. Alternate universes from the bsg one OR Pre-mini or post-poof OR something within the canon timeline that is drastically different (i.e. war didn't happen, they found a new planet called Mars that they all settled on, etc.)

1. Do you like them?
Yes, if they're done well. I, too, used to be much more canon-focused and not really interested in pilots in other settings.

2. What do you like/dislike about them? Sometimes the joy in reading (and writing) them is just seeing how the pilots fit into these other universes

3. What works and what doesn’t? It always comes back to characterization. Do I believe these people being called Kara and Lee who are in this completely alternate universe are the same Kara and Lee that I love? And, personally, I like a lot of canon dialogue callbacks and twists/hints of canonical events in AU stories.

4. When do you consider a fic to be an AU and when not or if you want: where are you drawing the line? See my disclaimer above. Butterfly Effect and all--every fic is AU to some extent. But I consider AU to be wildly different from what we saw in canon mostly. In fact, I don't often even consider academy-fic or post-poof fic AU if it seems plausible to their environs?

5. Do you prefer the ones where we have just something slightly different, the ones where everything is different or even the totally different setting type?
I can go with either if it's well written.

6. How do you feel about crossovers? I adore them if they marry the two universes really well. For my money, no one writes better crossovers than rayruz. She does a wonderful job interweaving characters and environments and just nailing all the characterization and voices. If you're a Joss Whedon fan, she has Dollhouse, Firefly and Buffy (well...Faith, really!) crossovers that are fantastic. And she wrote my favorite crossover, which is Kara and Lee in the world of The Hunger Games.

7. Are BSG related AUs different from the ones that you wrote/read in other fandoms?

I don't have many other fandoms but I'd bet ours are much better written for the most part. ;)


8. What about original characters? Not really interested in those at all. Especially when they threaten to take over a story, or become a major focus of scenes where there's no or little pilots interaction. I read novels for original characters; I read fanfic for MORE PILOTS PLEASE. ;)

OC's

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

Agreed with this whole line of comments and would only add one thing more: The OC should serve to move the story along and help illuminate the primary characters. They've got to serve a definite purpose and not just become tengential and allow the story to become unfocused (which is another post entirely). But when they are used speciaically and intentionally, and if your cup of tea ia AU (and mine most certainly is), then I would argue that OC's are absolutely necessary for writing a good AU.

Re: OC's

[adamas.livejournal.com]

help illuminate the primary characters.

I love this description of it. I was trying to get at that when describing OCs in my own question/answers, but this just does it right on the nose.

Re: OC's

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

HA. Just realized how atrocious my spelling is (and how much I miss the edit button--damn you, unpaid account!). Sorry. : )

Re: OC's

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

And I think they also have to be used sparingly, and the author has to resist the urge to let them take over the story. I think they work more on an embellishment/illumination level. : )

Crossovers

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

I have a confession to make-- they're not really my cup of tea. That being said Ray (rayruz) has written some really captivating ones and she definitely set the bar in my mind.

But in many cases, they seem a bit self-indulgent. Like when I used to have my GI Joe and my He-Man action figures team up to solve crimes. (And since they frequently met at the Barbie mansion, I suppose that would count as a three-way crossover.)

But at the end of the day, I'm a slave to the story. So when I read crossovers, I always find myself asking: is the reason for writing this a compelling story that the author wants to tell, or is it just an excuse to have his/her favorite dolls-- erm, I mean characters-- talk to each other?

((That being said, for the past two years I've had this completely gratuitous scene playing in my head when Josh Lyman and Lee Adama shoot some basketball and discuss democracy. Because yeah, it'd be pretty and fun. *g*))

Butterfly Effect exception?

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

Definitely agree with SFS as well on this, but it is a hard line to draw. I find myself considering Butterly Effect stories (ie, what if we changed one moment at one point in time and watch it play out? fics) not so much AU, because many of those fics seem to go on and re-live many of the same storylines from the show in a slightly different perspective.

Those don't feel AU to me. When I think of AU I want a markedly different experience. I want storylines I haven't come across before or environments that weren't in canon. Innibis' fairytales are prime examples of this AU kind of AU. In the end, it's all just a preference thing, but I really like to see a divergence from canon. Then it's all about how creatively can the author tell a new story while managing to keep beloved characters familiar.

And when it's done right-- when it's done with a lot of care and precision, it can be so, so good.

[kl-shipper1.livejournal.com]

1) Most of the time, yes.

2) AUs put familiar characters in different situations/settings than what we've seen on the show. Or they might make changes to canon/twist the storyline in a way that is more pleasing (or sometimes not) to the reader than the original (fix-it AUs).

3) The key, for me, to making an AU work is the characters. Even if Lee and Kara are in a situation that is nothing like BSG, they should still feel like the Lee and Kara we know from BSG, not two characters whose names are the same, but bear little to no resemblance to pilots. The storyline/situation that pilots are dealing with should also be realistic, not so far-fetched that it makes the fic hard to read.

4) I think a fic becomes AU when it changes part of the canon established in the show.

5) All of them-- I don't have a favorite! As long as the universe and the characters are written well and it is believable, then I'm generally happy.

6) Our fandom has some very well-written crossovers, and I think that has influenced my opinion of crossovers. Maybe I wouldn't like them as much if I was in a different fandom or if so many great BSG crossovers had not been written.

7) I was never this involved in any other fandoms, so I can't really answer this question.

8) OCs are okay, some are very well done, some not so much. I tend to like a BSG OC if they are a supporting character, even if they
are an important part of the plot. I definitely don't want an OC who will get in the way of pilots (we already have enough established/canon characters who do that). Overall, it really depends on how well the character is written.

Recs
The Irreplaceability of Things Lost (http://kag523.livejournal.com/65327.html) by kag523 (BSG/Inception crossover)
The Officers' Club (http://kag523.livejournal.com/10821.html) by kag523
----Sequel: Crossing the Styx (http://kag523.livejournal.com/38983.html)
The Cutting Edge (http://taragel.livejournal.com/132069.html) by taragel (BSG/Cutting Edge crossover)
The Reality and Immortality of Things Lost (http://users.livejournal.com/wisteria_/921546.html) by wisteria_
----Chapter 2 (http://users.livejournal.com/wisteria_/923242.html)
----Chapter 3a (http://users.livejournal.com/wisteria_/925652.html)
----Chapter 3b (http://users.livejournal.com/wisteria_/925866.html)
First Impressions (http://kag523.livejournal.com/64511.html) by kag523 and nazkey (BSG/Pride and Prejudice crossover)

[kdbleu.livejournal.com]

1. do you like them? I do. I didn't really get them at first because they felt so foreign, but now I really enjoy them.

2. what do you like/dislike about them? I like the new perspective and fresh twists on characters, how a change of setting makes the characters different or the same. I dislike when characters seem OOC, but also when they seem forced to be the same despite changes in circumstance that would make them different characters.

3. what works and what doesn’t? I think anything can work so long as it's justified and well thougth out.

4. when do you consider a fic to be an AU and when not or if you want: where are you drawing the line? Ultimitely any change to canon is AU, but the more major the changes the more satisfying the experience. I consider major changes to canon just as AU as something totally non-canon.

5. do you prefer the ones where we have just something slightly different, the ones where everything is different or even the totally different setting type? I answered this above.

6. how do you feel about crossovers? I haven't read very many, but I have read some that are very well thought out and well done.

7. are BSG related AUs different from the ones that you wrote/read in other fandoms? I don't know enough about other fandoms.

8. what about original characters? Original characters are fine if they're as fleshed out as the other characters and support the AU in a logical and necessary way.

[rachelindeed.livejournal.com]

1. do you like them? Like is too small a word -- I adore them.

2. what do you like/dislike about them? They present my characters in a totally new light; I get to meet and fall in love with them all over again. I get tiny, unexpected shocks of recognition when I see a familiar fragment of storyline, dialogue, or behavior in a new setting. AUs draw out what stays constant in our characters even when everything else around them changes; that helps us focus on the essence of who these people are and always will be.

3. what works and what doesn’t? They NEED verisimilitude -- if the setting is not convincing, you're sunk. And also I think they can't go so far off into their own world that I lose my sense of familiarity with the themes/stories of the original.

4. when do you consider a fic to be an AU and when not or if you want: where are you drawing the line? I tend to think of AU as pulling out the big guns when it comes to departing from canon, but I usually label even my smaller deviations "AU"s if the point of the story is to show how one small change might have been important. So I've written what I think of as big, proper AUs, like Lee-is-the-Greek-god-of-the-Underworld or Kara-is-a-vampire-slayer-in-the-Victorian-era, but I've also written small AUs where the point is to make a small but significant change, like Lee-gets-the-chance-to-talk-to-Kara-on-New-Caprica-the-morning-after.

5. do you prefer the ones where we have just something slightly different, the ones where everything is different or even the totally different setting type? The totally different setting type is my favorite. But on the other hand, I also think kag523's Irreplaceability is a crossover masterpiece that is remarkable precisely because it fits so seamlessly into established canon :)

6. how do you feel about crossovers? I love them when they're well done, but I more often read/write fics where characters from one fandom are transposed into another fandom's universe but don't necessarily meet up with the other fandom's main characters. Crossovers with 2 casts can get a bit crowded, because you're trying to follow so many beloved people and write so many new relationships. In a crossover about Kara meeting Han Solo, the Kara/Lee relationship is unlikely to be the center of the story. It's almost got to be centered on Kara and Han, and while that's fun it's not the relationship that fuels my fandom loves :)

7. are BSG related AUs different from the ones that you wrote/read in other fandoms? There are some fabulous AUs in the BSG fandom -- when it's done it's done great -- but I would say here it's quality over quantity; there are just fewer AUs here than in some of my other fandoms. The BSG fandom has very few historical AUs, for example. Also, the BBC Sherlock fandom is the most vibrantly AU fandom I've ever seen. I've read completely goregous and convincing fics about Sherlock and John as everything from magical creatures (vampires, ghosts, the ancient fae, psychics, dragons, the Horsemen of the apocolypse, androids, Goblin kings) to film stars, Wimbledon tennis players, ice cream makers and sous-chefs, 19th-century carnivale workers, 21st-century storm-chasers and meteorologists, child-care workers, homicidal co-dependent cats. That fandom is also full of very interesting genderswapped stories, which make Holmes or Watson or both into women. I'm telling you, the whole thing is an amazing ride.

8. what about original characters? Original characters can be really great when they're used as point-of-view narrators who give us a fresh perspective on our favorite characters. When they're done well you can fall a bit in love with them, too, while still rejoicing that both they and the story are staying focused on the marvel that is the original canon character they're interacting with. I think the Man from UNCLE fandom is the king of this kind of original-character-POV story. In BSG there aren't too many, but they are great when you find them, like Calliope by Rheanna (http://www.goldenmaze.com/calliope.htm).

screened comment

[rachelindeed.livejournal.com]

Hello moderators -- just to let you know that my comment has been automatically screened, I assume because of a fic link in there. When you get a chance, could you clear it? Thanks :)

Re: screened comment

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

I think I fixed it...

Re: screened comment

[rachelindeed.livejournal.com]

Thank you! :)

Re: Crossovers

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

Need to edit this response to also give a shoutout to Kag's Irreplaceability. I'm not the only one sharing the love on that today, and I don't know how it slipped my mind other than to blame post-baby hormones, but I thoroughly enjoyed it as well. And again, I think for me it's because it come back to telling a very intriguiing and compelling story.

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

can i just say that i love your disclaimer?

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

great recs there. *just saying*

Re: Crossovers

[anamarya.livejournal.com]

Like when I used to have my GI Joe and my He-Man action figures team up to solve crimes. (And since they frequently met at the Barbie mansion, I suppose that would count as a three-way crossover.

Never thought about this. but that is sort of a crossover. i not only like this idea but i should probably break that news to my nephew cause his sort of creating a very strange geometrical form of i go by this theory and he'll be delighted to know.

[kl-shipper1.livejournal.com]

And there are so many more I could put on that list! I love how many amazing fic writers we have in this fandom!