DPP: Oh, No, They Didn't (ONTD)

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

Well, shippers, this is my last DPP for this week. Thank you all for so much squeeing, thinking, and commenting with me. Driving this train is fantastic. *MWUH*

Now, onto the business at hand. Most of the week has been devoted to squeeable topics like UST, eyefrakking, outmaking, and birthday celebrations. Today, I'm bringing a little more angst to the mix.

There were countless opportunities for Kara and Lee to finally talk about their feelings and to straighten their shit out. Seems, though, every time they tried, something got in the way: Fate, Timing, Frakked up Missions to Caprica, Personal History, Guilt, Death, you know, the small stuff.

So my questions boils down to this: What are the most significant (or just your favorite) moments in the show where TPTB prevent our pilots from achieving their happily ever after? I don't mean RDM's late-series character annihilation, but instead the legitimate, even clever ways that the show kept us watching our pilots, just to see if they'd ever figure things out.

What were the moments that made you want to throw something at the TV (but also gave you that "oooh, this oughtta be good" smile)?

And let's keep it nice, shippers. This is intended to be both squeeable and angsty (if that's possible). Here is one of my favorites (in stills - my gif of this scene is broken):


Jealous!Lee...
  
  

Later....
  
 
 

AND THEN KARA GOES TO CAPRICA. HOLY FRAKKING LORDS OF KOBOL. Laura and her frakking prophecies, Lee and his too-angry-to-admit he's jealous. And "Gaius Frakking Baltar???" AAAAGGGGHHHH. Pilots, why do you do this to me???

What say you, shippers?

Comments

[rachelindeed.livejournal.com]

There are a lot of fascinating moments of angst throughout the series.

1) "Scar" springs to mind as one of the most epic; I completely love them both in that episode. I love that Kara is torturing herself over once again failing to save someone she promised to protect. Her love for Sam was protective, especially at that stage ~ I've always thought their vibe was probably quite similar to the dynamics she used to have with Zak. If there were sibling elements to her rapport with Lee, I'd say there were maternal elements in her approach to Sam and Zak at various points, though in none of these cases do I think the vibes were icky. I love that Lee completely goes for it at first, you can see how much he wants this to happen (his priceless arched eyebrow expression is the most perfect very-surprised-except-actually-not-at-all emotional note). I love that he knows her well enough to sense that something is off, and that he cares enough about their relationship to stop the physical extravaganza when he feels like he's losing her emotionally. I've complained before that Lee is prone to settle and compromise too much in his romantic life, but Kara is the exception to that rule: he just wants so much from her that he can't be happy with a divided or partial version ~ he wants the whole package. For once in his life, he won't settle for less. I think it rings true that Kara can't give him what he wants at this moment, but I like their argument about it, and especially her apologetic, angry parting kiss (and his HANDS. With the...HANDS. Yeah.)

A lot of people highlight the toast scene at the end of this episode, and I acknowledge its coolness, but I'm about fifty times more in love with the little ready room scene where he asks if she's OK and she wordlessly pulls herself together for him. They are both so quietly beautiful in that scene ~ it's the gentlest angst they ever shared, and I think it really showed their quality, their unselfishness, their genuine mutual caring. It's amazing how seamlessly they got over the makeout-angsting, and how ready they were to keep reaching out to each other. It's lovely.

2) I find the memorial wall scene in "Islanded in a Stream of Stars" one of their most quietly compelling angsty scenes. I'm sure some people don't even view it as angst, but there is something so delicately restrained about the way he touches her - that little hesitation as he raises his hand, and that wry resignation on his face as he releases her - that sets a bittersweet tone. It's the only time he ever tells her that he has no expectations: I'm here, you're here, this is all that matters - he doesn't ask her for anything more. I feel like it's a surrender of old ways of thinking, but also of old hopes, and there is something sad about it in spite of its beauty. Up to that point Lee always demanded more of her, and himself, than anyone else. He's stopped asking, stopped expecting...he's at peace with her just as she is, he has what he needs, and it's like he finally knows that nothing about their relationship and what they feel for each other will ever change. That brings comfort, but also a certain resignation. Plus, I'm fairly sure that this scene constituted the last time they ever touched each other, which gets it automatic angst-points in my book :)

There's something about it that reminds me of a random quote from the movie "The Alamo," of all things:

"You know, if you live five more years, I think you just might turn out to be a great man."

"Maybe. But I think I'll have to settle for the man I am now."

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

There are so many things here that I absolutely agree with. In Scar, I love Lee's ability to care about Kara more than himself, more than his wounded feelings about her kissing/ditching him. The Are You OK moment after her fight with Kat is incredibly sweet. He just needs to make sure she's ok. And that they're ok.

The rueful look he gives her in Islanded, like he wants to grab her and hold her and give everything to her just guts me. I also see it as incredibly sad and a bit angsty, too, although much of the angst for me had passed by that time. One of my favorite parts of that scene is when she turns back to the wall and almost sighs, smiling because Lee accepts her totally and completely the way she is - dead, alive, angel, cylon - whatever. I felt like that was her moment of peace and release. He said I love you and accept you no matter what. For me, that's her peace with it all. I adore Lee for that and for Kara letting it happen. Lovely scene. *sighs*

[rachelindeed.livejournal.com]

I completely agree! I love those scenes, and I'm very proud of them both for the way they support each other, and I'm glad (but also a little sad) about the peaceful acceptance they reach by the end of their story. They've gotten to unconditional acceptance, which is pretty amazing :)

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

Really excellent write-up on Scar. And I love the point you make about hoe Lee's not willing to settle romantically when it comes to Kara. He demands all or nothing-- and it scares the hell out of her.

Also, your take on Islanded as being a sad, angsty scene: Ouch. It hurts, but I see it. And through that interpretation-- the resignation, etc., you can see why some people view it as a goodbye. It is indeed beautiful and bittersweet.

[rachelindeed.livejournal.com]

Thanks for your lovely comment, it's great to hear your thoughts. I don't think Lee *meant* his words as a goodbye in "Islanded," (his wonderful little smile and "I'll see you around, Kara Thrace" as he walks away definitely end the scene on a wistful, sweet note ~ there's still a sense of possibility). You could interpret the scene in many different ways, all equally meaningful, I think. But for me, since this did turn out to be their goodbye, I look at it and see elements in it that reflect a sense of peace and resolution that could be viewed, in hindsight, as an ending place. I think he was saying that he was all right with where they were, that he was perfectly content just to be alive with her, and that he had learned to set aside any other expectations ~ they'd be fine whether or not any of their possibilities ever came to be. And I think she was accepting of herself, believing in herself as she was, to an extent she never could before. In some ways, that's very hopeful, but in other ways, it's a kind of letting go.

I'm sorry to be always quoting random things, but there is a line from a fanfiction story in a totally unrelated fandom that I associate with this scene: "He forgot why it had ever mattered that he couldn't have her, couldn't actually hold her. The other ways that he had known her love had proved themselves so much more permanent than touch; and they were with him still." It's a kind of parting without parting, maybe...

Anyhow, I'm really done rambling now. Thanks so much for listening :)

[cosetteferaud.livejournal.com]

he had learned to set aside any other expectations ~ they'd be fine whether or not any of their possibilities ever came to be.

That was pretty much Lee's arc throughout S4, wasn't it? Despite the finale, I love the Lee we got to see afte Kara came back from death.

And I think she was accepting of herself, believing in herself as she was, to an extent she never could before. In some ways, that's very hopeful, but in other ways, it's a kind of letting go.

This is my interpretation, too. But the letting go part makes me so very sad.

[cosetteferaud.livejournal.com]

Ah girl, I am loving your ramblings, you put everything so beautifully. I just wanted to say that I couldn't agree more with your thoughts on Scar... Their near-frak moment gets me every time, because there's so much hung unsaid between the two during the whole interaction. And I couln't love more Lee there, how he doesn't let Kara use him for her self-destructive purposes and tries to make her talk instead. That's a trait I always loved about Lee... he doesn't allow Kara to keep up with her destructive patterns and always tries to confronts her instead, with more or less luck and skill --love how he brings out the dead guys issue here and also, of course, Kara's reaction, because I see it as her way to tell him he's made a point but she can't deal with it, not right then.

Also, I agree with the Sam/Zak maternal vibe. I always felt that Kara was really comfortable with those kind of guys --and relationships--, where she was the dominant one and had the control.

It's amazing how seamlessly they got over the makeout-angsting, and how ready they were to keep reaching out to each other.

Agree. I love how their friendship is their safe place, how no matter what happens between them on a romantic level, they are first and foremost friends. Also, the fact that they always forgave each other and kept on trying despite all the mess they usually made of things is absolutely enadearing and touching.

[rachelindeed.livejournal.com]

"--love how he brings out the dead guys issue here and also, of course, Kara's reaction, because I see it as her way to tell him he's made a point but she can't deal with it, not right then."

I couldn't agree more ~ I had never thought of her reaction in quite that way before, but you're right, that's exactly what she was conveying.

"I love how their friendship is their safe place, how no matter what happens between them on a romantic level, they are first and foremost friends. Also, the fact that they always forgave each other and kept on trying "

Yes! This is what I love most about them. And in a way, it's wonderfully unexpected ~ neither one seems like a particularly forgiving person on the surface, but it turns out they both have fairly breath-taking depths of understanding inside them. They get over hurtful things with unusual grace. Yay them :)