no_takebacks | DPP: Sine qua non

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DPP: Sine qua non

So, after yesterday's digression into the idea of Professor!pilots let’s try to get back on track with what I had outlined initially.
On Monday’s discussion about AUs a lot of you said that one type of stories that you like are the ones that start from canon and diverge from there, changing just some stuff. My question for today is:

What is the scene/action/dialogue from canon that you can’t live without in a story?

The one thing that has to be there. And no, I don’t speak about the total awesomeness of our pilots because that’s a given. I’m referring more like to a bit of conversation, a look, a specific kiss/hug/action – even a fight.
Example (just for disambiguation) : Every time that a long story that is not completely AU skips the brig scene altogether I feel like I’m missing something. I can live with all sorts of variations but without it?

p.s. Feel free to use pictures as examples. and don't forget to go and check the new com.

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There are two bits of dialogue that I love to see used in fic, particularly if used in a dissimilar context or if the speaker is swapped:

"This is all that matters" from Islanded

"I missed you, I missed you, too" from UB.

Recently,

taragel used the "Are you sure I'm what you want?" line from UBEX that I loved, too.

*happy sigh*

I adore those two, especially in a totally different setting.

I always think "Are you sure I'm what you want?" is the perfect expression that sums up Kara's constant fear regarding Lee. (And it's actually perfect for him too towards her, although he never says it.)

The "Are you sure i'm what you want?" line is and has been my absolute favorite, most heartbreaking, illuminating, wonderful, sweet, breathtaking moment of everything to do with Pilots since I saw it. Gods, it freaking literally hurts my insides when she asks it all scared and raw and hopeless. Gah!

This isn't exactly what you asked, but personally, I really love missing moments from canon, and stories that take place in the canon timeline, but I have a really hard time getting interested in the ones that just follow the entire show storyline or repeat canonical scenes almost entirely. Like parrot the dialogue and just throw more exposition between it.

Tell me what happened BEFORE what we saw or AFTER, and that will interest me to no end. But I don't need to go with you while you unpack every facial movement in a canon scene (even ones that I love like the Six of One brig scene). Because mostly the actors are super expressive enough, that it's clear what the intent is.

That being said, I do love callbacks and think they're almost essential to good fanfic. Echoing the dialogue or actions in new situations and maybe giving it a slight twist this time around in a fic. Maybe this time Kara is the one to say "We have to have this. Your word, my word." or Lee is the one to say "No Takebacks! You can't take it back." That delights me to no end! It's the best thing about reading AU fanfic, to see how it connects back to the story we know/love/get so frustrated by. ;)

That being said, I'm not sure if I always use the same callbacks. Usually the situation varies enough that different ones become appropriate. Hugs and handshaking/holding still always need to be very important. I love writing one of them reaching out a hand to pull the other one up, because it's beautiful symbolically of what they do for each other and also often a lovely callback to the miniseries when Kara slides out from under her viper to see non-dead Lee!! I've used the "You're Lee and I'm Kara, the rest isn't worth a damn." And the "You're here, I'm here, this is all that matters." I've used the I missed you exchange and the quiet I love you exchange very often. I've used shouting to the skies and Whatever it Takes and There's No Takebacks, and upsetting the applecart. It just depends on the scene!

(Ok that was wordy! Whoops! Done now!)

Oops almost done--One thing that always seems to become a theme in my longer fic is that Lee needs to figure out what he wants in life and make a stand (against his father) to become his own man. It became pretty central in both Academy Pilots and The Cutting Edge oddly enough.

Edited 2011-08-24 12:32 (UTC)

Ok that was wordy

but very interesting to read.

Maybe this time Kara is the one to say "We have to have this. Your word, my word." or Lee is the one to say "No Takebacks! You can't take it back." That delights me to no end!

this is at least in part what I was trying/hoping to get from people.

I similarly used "All That Matters" of course, in my fic by the same name and it is really that line and that sentiment that define the fic itself. It is probably my favorite sentiment of pilots EVER because it sums it all up for me: the two of them together is ALL THAT MATTERS.

Thank you show writers for that lovely bit of awesome.

It is probably my favorite sentiment of pilots EVER because it sums it all up for me: the two of them together is ALL THAT MATTERS.

SSWA

As much as I hate all the other bullshit and ball-dropping that happened in 4.0 and 4.5, every single scene except their last one was full of goodness and supportiveness for each other like that one. I love it so much (of course it also made their last scene completely infuriating and ridiculous, but still!)

Tell me what happened BEFORE what we saw or AFTER, and that will interest me to no end. But I don't need to go with you while you unpack every facial movement in a canon scene (even ones that I love like the Six of One brig scene). Because mostly the actors are super expressive enough, that it's clear what the intent is.

We very much agree on this. : )

I love the "It's just you and me" line from UB. I think it sums them up pretty nicely and I am glad to see it used in fics. I wished Kara said it in the Daybreak flashbacks after Zak passed out.

I love that one too and I absolutely wish that had been Kara's last line to Lee in the series. My perfect ending to their story would be her saying that and taking his hand. <3 <3 <3 That's all I'd need.

awww! gorgeous! so simple but perfect.

her saying that and taking his hand. <3 <3 <3 That's all I'd need.

I hope you don't mind me saying this- but you are such a romantic.

I am. :)

I just remembered that "All we can count on is you and me" from Oath is pretty much the same line.

I love when "There's nothing here" can be worked in.

I'm also a fan of anytime an unusual quote or illusion can be worked in. I'm having a hard time coming up with an example so you're just going to have to believe me. ;)

I just used in last chapter of ice!pilots something I'd never used before, which was the quote Kara says to Lee in the extended TABFYW confrontation that was on the DVDs: "I thought we wanted the same thing here". :)

That is a really good one and I remember reading it in your fic. I wonder if anyone ever used the "All because I said some words to the wrong guy" from the same TAB scene.

That's a good one. No one ever really talks about that line unfortunately.

we keep forgeting about it. and idk why because for Kara to admit something like that it's sort of a big deal. maybe because they don't go anywhere with it?

an unusual quote

Yeah -- what I like most is to be surprised by it. I want not to have seen it coming, and then be pleased by how well it fits into the AU scene.

I love when "There's nothing here" can be worked in.

that's a good line - i saw it in fics and if done properly works pretty well.

I'm a masochist, but I absolutely die when people use any variation on "It's funny though, after all we've been through, we are right back where we started. You're CAG, and I am your hotshot problem pilot. I guess that's all we'll ever be now, huh?" from Maelstrom. I love how that one line brought things so full circle and that's (in my delightful little brain) why she was okay with everything, why she was at peace with what she feared would happen. It felt like she was saying goodbye.

And more fun from that episode is: K: So you don't think I'm nuts? // L: I didn't say that. You're a raving lunatic. As demented and deranged as the first day I met you. (I love when he makes fun of her kind of crazy, lol)

"It's funny though, after all we've been through, we are right back where we started. You're CAG, and I am your hotshot problem pilot. I guess that's all we'll ever be now, huh?"

for me, that line is all sorts of perfect. the fact that the end of the story in canon is bad (to say the least) is another story. but i love that line for that circle that you are speaking of.

What is the scene/action/dialogue from canon that you can’t live without in a story?

For me it is the line about "upsetting the applecart". It is not really the saying itself but the meaning behind it, which I believe to be quintessential for K/L relationship. Thus, I do not like stories, in which either Kara or Lee are obsessed/madly in love with the other one but are absolutely certain that he/she does not feel the same way and only sees him/her as a fellow viper jock or a friend. It is fine if the story is completely AU or if it describes early days of Lee and Kara's relationship prior to the mini but if set after the attacks I consider this behavior a bit OOC.

I think it is clearly stated in canon that they are both pretty well aware of the intense MUTUAL connection between them but have some kind of a silent agreement to not to act on the feelings mostly because of fear, guilt and because it is simply too much. In UBEX, Kara was scared and insecure but she did not ask: 'Are you sure you love me?", she asked "Are you sure I'm what you want?" Because throughout the show the pilots showed that they care deeply for each other but neither of them is 100% sure whether a standard romantic relationship between them is what they want (I won't go into "why" here).

They both try to be first and foremost friends to each other and (to a degree) "support" (i.e. accept without acting like jealous assholes) the other one's relationships even if they hate it: Lee "supported" Kara/Zak and early Kara/Sam, while Kara "supported" Lee/Dee in season 2 and after TAB. Deep down Lee knows that what Kara feels for him is deeper, stronger and much more intense than what she felt/feel for Zak or Sam, but in spite of that she chose to be with them rather than him. Lee knows he has the power to "upset her applecart" or maybe even ruin her relationship with any other guy whenever he choses to do so but it still will likely NOT get him Kara and will more likely lead to ruining their friendship. He has her heart but he cannot get her hand. Vice versa, Kara knows very well that Lee's feelings for her are of a completely different category to what he feels for Dee or any other girl, and she could have interjected and "upset his applecart', if she wanted. But she does not know whether she really wants a relationship with him, she does not know whether he really wants a relationship with her (he never said such until UB) and she does not want to ruin what they already have, because no matter in what form, she needs him by her side.

Sorry for being so wordy. I just wanted to say that I find fics where Lee or Kara are either hopelessly unaware of the other ones feelings or totally insecure a bit OOC.

I love this comment. Love love love it to pieces. Wish I had time to discuss in earnest but for now I'll just say: great insight. : )

I think the analysis is spot on here, and frankly something i'd never considered in such a cohesive way. Nice catch. I would only add that I think they each have a great deal of insecurities that do undermine their ability to trust that if they reach out, the other wold reciprocate. For Kara, I'd chalk it up to lack of self worth (thanks to mom) and for Lee, a fear of abandonment (thanks to dad, zak's death, etc.) So in that way, you could still have a plausible interpretation of one doubting the other's feelings/response on some level. Does that make any sense?

Thank you. It absolutely makes sense and I totally agree with you. Most of their "knowledge" about the other ones feelings are just gut feelings (or subconscious feelings) rather then them being 100% certain about what the other one wants or feels.

There are so many Kara/Lee porny fics that are set out throughout the whole show (in nearly any episode) and the funny thing is that they almost never feel completely OOC. Yeah, we know that they did not actually have sex at those times, but it is not difficult to imagine that if one of them did come on to the other one (and that is easy to imagine too) the other one would not turn the offer down. The fact that the sex would either ended up being aborted if one of them managed to get to their senses and realized what they were doing before the hormones took over (like in Scar) or resulted in a complete disaster the morning after (like UB) is however another matter.

i>I think it is clearly stated in canon that they are both pretty well aware of the intense MUTUAL connection between them but have some kind of a silent agreement to not to act on the feelings mostly because of fear, guilt and because it is simply too much.

YES. You have it right on the nose, there - pilots are very well aware that there is something between them, and that it's mutual. It's often strongly implied, like in KLG1 and several times after that, I don't think the problem with them is ever a lack of awareness that they have feelings for each other, it's more in the vein of occasional denial/not knowing what to do. Well put :)

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DPP: Sine qua non

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